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-   -   BOSS Build with 3 JBL 12” drivers (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/3063116-boss-build-3-jbl-12a-drivers.html)

Sekosche 04-19-2019 11:23 AM

BOSS Build with 3 JBL 12” drivers
 
Edit: 5/22/19 BOSS 2.0 is now a 6 driver beast. [emoji3]

And we’re off! This will be a triple 12” JBL driver build into an 86” x 36” double thick plywood riser below a two seat recliner loveseat. These drivers are a killer deal at their $29 sale price! Using Hudson 2.5” isolation feet above and below to incorporate two Crowson MA’s also. If you couldn’t tell, I like tactile bass. [emoji3]

I’m redoing the mini platform I had to better fit the driver locations where the three dead spaces are in my seating.

Edit: 5/17/19 Building a new platform to fit all 6 drivers in. It’ll be 86”x40”x1.5” with three drivers in the front and three along the very back. Progress to follow.

See the Hideaway Theater build thread here for more information on everything BOSS and my inspiration: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...91522?page=164

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...92327fe7b0.jpg

Lining up the couch frame to mark driver holes.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...3ced5fb8cf.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ef0252927e.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...b3870e1ac8.jpg

All lined up, ready to cut driver holes out of both sheets.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...bf2641be02.jpg
Woohoo she fits pretty good, using half inch bits for the first time so my hole guide took a few tries. Luckily any mistakes won’t be seen. [emoji3]
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...f240dc8d08.jpg
Driver holes all done on both boards. Now the rest is easy street, glue/screw, add edging strip, isos, wire and mount drivers, and the BOSS is ready! Hopefully will finish it up tomorrow. Quickest build yet!
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...7acbe38a86.jpg
Finished BOSS!
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...9419df3afd.jpg

BOSS 1.0
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...15cff24a50.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...cca30f3065.jpg

BOSS 2.0. More BOOOOOSSSS!
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...9b6de83799.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...fe90d15d7a.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...f4dc7646ee.jpg

Sekosche 04-19-2019 11:42 AM

BOSS Build with 3 JBL 12” drivers
 
Reserved for impressions...

Initial impressions are super positive for the BOSS and it’s amazing delivery of TR! That’s all for now. More comments down below.

rr14 04-19-2019 06:11 PM

subscribed! excited to hear the results!

Sekosche 04-20-2019 10:40 AM

BOSS Build with 3 JBL 12” drivers
 
Looks better with the drivers up, too bad they’ll be inverted. Definitely had room for 6 drivers, but wanted to be conservative for my first attempt in case it’s already more than I need or prefer.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...5708bdf66d.jpg

Think I’ll make a few cutouts in my previous platform and mount the couch to it again and then place that over the BOSS. Already have isolation feet on it and it fits the couch frame great so hate to waste it.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...c3605fe208.jpg

Driver cut outs for top platform.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...6fefbdcf71.jpg

peniku8 04-20-2019 10:54 AM

How will you fair with the carpet? I have a similar setup in my room where the front feet of my sofa are on the carpet and the back feet are on the floor (with some rubber insulators). I can't move the carpet at all due to space constraints, so half of it would be on the floor and the other half either on top of the BOSS riser or beneath it. Another problem is the availability of these drivers in Germany...
And btw, are the subs behind the couch the main subs or dedicated NF subs?

Gorilla Killa 04-20-2019 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peniku8 (Post 57929552)
How will you fair with the carpet? I have a similar setup in my room where the front feet of my sofa are on the carpet and the back feet are on the floor (with some rubber insulators). I can't move the carpet at all due to space constraints, so half of it would be on the floor and the other half either on top of the BOSS riser or beneath it. Another problem is the availability of these drivers in Germany...
And btw, are the subs behind the couch the main subs or dedicated NF subs?

You can use a different driver, they are dirt cheap here great for the money. @Nalleh is on your side of the pond and found I believe the jbl 1214, same driver just different number. Blocks of plywood under the isos to keep it off the carpet, the back can stay on the tile if you want it to. This would be a great addition to the skhorns

peniku8 04-20-2019 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorilla Killa (Post 57929622)
You can use a different driver, they are dirt cheap here great for the money. @Nalleh is on your side of the pond and found I believe the jbl 1214, same driver just different number. Blocks of plywood under the isos to keep it off the carpet, the back can stay on the tile if you want it to. This would be a great addition to the skhorns

I just had another look and it seems that the JBL Stage 1210 are very similar. Slightly lower moving mass (thus higher Fs) and similar motor force plus I could always add mass afterwards.
They're 60€ here each (around 70$ shipped), maybe I'll see em on discount some time soon.
I really noticed the difference a riser makes while touring with a band as FOH enginner. I mixed on a wooden riser (big venue with 12 EV X-subs) and noticed that the LF sounded much louder on the riser than on the tarmac floor. So even just a decoupled riser would probably make a huge difference for me. Tempting tempting..

Sekosche 04-20-2019 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peniku8 (Post 57929552)
How will you fair with the carpet? I have a similar setup in my room where the front feet of my sofa are on the carpet and the back feet are on the floor (with some rubber insulators). I can't move the carpet at all due to space constraints, so half of it would be on the floor and the other half either on top of the BOSS riser or beneath it. Another problem is the availability of these drivers in Germany...
And btw, are the subs behind the couch the main subs or dedicated NF subs?


Luckily, this platform will be all on the hard floors and my carpet goes in front. You might need some small spacers to level up the back of the couch (maybe not though) and also add small squares of plywood under the front of the couch for the isolators to lay on. I think some people run them on carpet but most prefer a solid base.

Those are dedicated nearfield 15” slim subs I built with a Dayton 390HO driver tuned to ~21Hz. There’s three other 18” subs in the room to help fill in the rest. I made a build thread on them if you’re interested. They work very well for added TR!

I’m not sure of a comparable driver that would be available to you without spending too much. Hope you find something that works well or a vendor that sells in Germany without being too costly. Where about in Germany are you located? I spent a few weeks in and around Munich and Salzburg and really loved it.

Good luck!

peniku8 04-20-2019 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekosche (Post 57929992)
Luckily, this platform will be all on the hard floors and my carpet goes in front. You might need some small spacers to level up the back of the couch (maybe not though) and also add small squares of plywood under the front of the couch for the isolators to lay on. I think some people run them on carpet but most prefer a solid base.

Those are dedicated nearfield 15” slim subs I built with a Dayton 390HO driver tuned to ~21Hz. There’s three other 18” subs in the room to help fill in the rest. I made a build thread on them if you’re interested. They work very well for added TR!

I’m not sure of a comparable driver that would be available to you without spending too much. Hope you find something that works well or a vendor that sells in Germany without being too costly. Where about in Germany are you located? I spent a few weeks in and around Munich and Salzburg and really loved it.

Good luck!


Seems that I have found a comparable driver, as mentioned in my post before, but at over twice the cost. Still no deal-breaker.

I wonder if NF subs are still 'needed' with the BOSS platform.


The only TR I get is from my two bass shakers which cover half an octave (from 20-30Hz). Not ideal..
And ofc the TR from the SKHorn 4' away from me (plus the wind it generates lol).



I live close to the border to Luxembourg but visited Munich and Salzburg 13(?) years ago, great cities.

Sekosche 04-20-2019 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peniku8 (Post 57930014)
Seems that I have found a comparable driver, as mentioned in my post before, but at over twice the cost. Still no deal-breaker.

I wonder if NF subs are still 'needed' with the BOSS platform.

The only TR I get is from my two bass shakers which cover half an octave (from 20-30Hz). Not ideal..
And ofc the TR from the SKHorn 4' away from me (plus the wind it generates lol).

I live close to the border to Luxembourg but visited Munich and Salzburg 13(?) years ago, great cities.


Luckily Gorilla chimed in with a driver and knows his stuff!

I think @SBuger found his nearfield subs much less necessary with a BOSS in play.

Hoping to finish up today, got the platform glued/screwed. Going to round over the edges and then stain them. Not sure I’ll have much time to play with it tonight though before working a few days straight.

FriscoDTM 04-20-2019 07:39 PM

Nice, report back how it works and show more pictures. I have been thinking of something similar using the buyout 15s

Sekosche 04-20-2019 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FriscoDTM (Post 57931728)
Nice, report back how it works and show more pictures. I have been thinking of something similar using the buyout 15s


Will do, threw some stain on for anything that’s visible. Did this with my last mini riser and blends well with the room. Relaxing and watching TV with the wife ATM, but I’m nearly done with the BOSS.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...0af2083323.jpg

Squirrel! 04-20-2019 07:53 PM

Gotta love Ego! ;) This is the 3rd year for my Ego equipment.

Oh! Your project looks pretty cool, too!

Sekosche 04-20-2019 07:57 PM

BOSS Build with 3 JBL 12” drivers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Squirrel! (Post 57931776)
Gotta love Ego! ;) This is the 3rd year for my Ego equipment.



Oh! Your project looks pretty cool, too!


Thanks!

Lol yeah, Ego makes great battery powered yard tools. Think I’m on the third year as well with them, just have the blower and trimmer, but both are awesome versus gas powered or corded. The blower is my personal dust collector/remover more often than the shop vac. [emoji3]

Sekosche 04-20-2019 09:13 PM

BOSS Build with 3 JBL 12” drivers
 

Sekosche 04-21-2019 01:07 PM

BOSS Build with 3 JBL 12” drivers
 

Sekosche 04-21-2019 03:24 PM

BOSS Build with 3 JBL 12” drivers
 
I got a very brief demo in after setting it up, and I can see how these imitate nearfield subs and make them a little less necessary. I get the TR in the seating that replicates nearfield and some SPL too, however little it might be it still sounds like there’s subs in the couch surrounding you which is awesome...I guess technically there is. The BOSS definitely doesn’t replicate the chest punch my nearfields do, but I wouldn’t expect it to.

I watched Fury and 13 Hours for a couple scenes and all without the Crowsons, two nearfield subs, and the 18” Marty cube turned on; so with only the front two subs on, I was very impressed. Played a half dozen ULF songs and equally impressive. They don’t dig down as deep with as much authority as Crowsons, but the effect is still noticeable.

Went with a 35Hz LPF for now, but it is a very natural feeling as many have mentioned and very impressive so far for what little I’ve heard. Need to fully recalibrate and tune them to taste. For now, I’m only running 250 watts total across all 3, and I bet they could take a lot more. I can see how clearance could become an issue at max excursion if not on hard floors, and it’s a bit difficult to tell how much movement they’re hitting other than trying to look at the top of the driver from above.

Having finished it all, I could have easily fit 6 drivers, but I don’t think that’s necessary, so glad I went with just three to keep it simple. Will be tweaking in my little spare time in the coming weeks. Overall, it was a great weekend build for such a return on the investment.

Audiophile75 04-21-2019 05:07 PM

Nice job on your build. I too have a similar setup as you (minus the butt kickers) and have thought about doing this to chase the lower than 20hz without going too crazy on my budget. By your initial impressions it sounds like you are impressed which makes me put this on my build list. I do wonder if you could give some more impressions on the single digit stuff too, I heard one person said they swept all the way down to 4hz??? I know my nearfields do a great job but for the $$ this sounds like it could fill that <20hz gap, do you feel that way too?

Sekosche 04-21-2019 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiophile75 (Post 57935038)
Nice job on your build. I too have a similar setup as you (minus the butt kickers) and have thought about doing this to chase the lower than 20hz without going too crazy on my budget. By your initial impressions it sounds like you are impressed which makes me put this on my build list. I do wonder if you could give some more impressions on the single digit stuff too, I heard one person said they swept all the way down to 4hz??? I know my nearfields do a great job but for the $$ this sounds like it could fill that <20hz gap, do you feel that way too?


Thanks!

I’ll definitely give more BOSS impressions when I get more time to play with it. I still need to tweak them to taste and see how much power they can handle without issue in my setup. I would say they will fill that gap nicely below 20Hz, especially for the money!

I played several FR sweeps from 1-50Hz and there’s definitely a lot of noticeable excursion looking at the driver starting very low in the single digits. I did these quick sweeps with the Crowsons on too for maximum TR, so hard to determine how much the BOSS contributed. I’ll say the TR for the money is phenomenal. Way better/more natural than BK’s and they are honestly very similar to Crowsons which is a huge complement to the BOSS.

I’m not getting teeth rattling TR with the BOSS, not that I was expecting it, but being conservative at only ~80 watts per driver it’s still pretty darn impressive how much they feel/sound like a full range driver down low. When I left off everything but my front subs and had just the BOSS on, I was quite impressed how they seemed to mimic a little bit of everything in the system, nearfield subs, MA's, and shakers all at the same time. Will see what 150-200w each does. [emoji3]

gpmbc 04-21-2019 10:15 PM

Wow your BOSS platform came out nice! What kind of red stain is that?

Sekosche 04-21-2019 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpmbc (Post 57935812)
Wow your BOSS platform came out nice! What kind of red stain is that?


Thanks! I like it, but my wife isn’t big on the color since the red doesn’t match any of our other wood. [emoji23]

Think it was Rustoleum Walnut, but I rarely use it because it looks nothing like walnut stain should with all that red and and I actually used a different stain for the back part of the platform when I ran out.

Sekosche 04-22-2019 07:06 AM

Holy cow! The BOSS is freaking sweet!

The BOSS is easily the best TR for the money I’ve experienced by far. If on a budget, I couldn’t think of a better option. If your setup can accommodate the unique requirements and driver placement, and you’re looking for more tactile bass, definitely build a BOSS!

After work tonight, I doubled the max wattage from my previous tests and tweaked the DSP a little and now I know why a few users noted the BOSS is too much at times, crazy TR! I built this platform large enough to put my feet on for the first time to experience it, but with bass heavy music it’s actually very distracting and my feet are tingling after too much vibration similar to using a power tool, hand held sander, etc. for an extended duration.

I did a bunch of 1-50Hz sweeps comparing the Crowsons to the BOSS, and where the two meet around maybe 10-12Hz with authority is just incredible. The Crowsons have a lot more energy below and around 10Hz but around 15-20Hz and up I think the BOSS might actually win. I haven’t done any vibSensor tests, but I’ll try and get around to it in the coming weeks. I just like to use the butt-o-meter for comparisons and enjoy new gear.

Using a 25Hz LPF for the Crowsons and 35Hz LPF for the BOSS, as well as some other DSP to taste.

After seeing just how much excursion these drivers have during sweeps, I might wind up adding a small spacer under each isolator (like most of the others that built one) for a little more clearance, because hitting the ground is a real concern and I’d rather not break them the first week. [emoji3]

Rowan611 04-22-2019 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekosche (Post 57936720)
Holy cow! The BOSS is freaking sweet!

The BOSS is easily the best TR for the money I’ve experienced by far. If on a budget, I couldn’t think of a better option. If your setup can accommodate the unique requirements and driver placement, and you’re looking for more tactile bass, definitely build a BOSS!

After work tonight, I doubled the max wattage from my previous tests and tweaked the DSP a little and now I know why a few users noted the BOSS is too much at times, crazy TR! I built this platform large enough to put my feet on for the first time to experience it, but with bass heavy music it’s actually very distracting and my feet are tingling after too much vibration similar to using a power tool, hand held sander, etc. for an extended duration.

I did a bunch of 1-50Hz sweeps comparing the Crowsons to the BOSS, and where the two meet around maybe 10-12Hz with authority is just incredible. The Crowsons have a lot more energy below and around 10Hz but around 15-20Hz and up I think the BOSS might actually win. I haven’t done any vibSensor tests, but I’ll try and get around to it in the coming weeks. I just like to use the butt-o-meter for comparisons and enjoy new gear.

Using a 25Hz LPF for the Crowsons and 35Hz LPF for the BOSS, as well as some other DSP to taste.

After seeing just how much excursion these drivers have during sweeps, I might wind up adding a small spacer under each isolator (like most of the others that built one) for a little more clearance, because hitting the ground is a real concern and I’d rather not break them the first week. [emoji3]



What slope are you using for those LPF? Currently I don’t have any filters on my Crowsons. I’ll be building a BOSS riser soon, and like you I’ll be combining the two. @lukeamdman said the same thing about the Crowsons being better 15hz and below. I can’t wait to get mine built.

Totally different question. What do you power your Crowsons with?


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FriscoDTM 04-22-2019 09:33 AM

I ordered four of those drivers last night for my couch. It currently has crowsons under the back two legs on hardwood, and the front two legs are just resting on an area rug. I don’t think my wife will appreciate a sheet of plywood on the floor so I will try to integrate it into the bottom of the frame of the couch and see if I can put two big isolators under the front two legs and 8 of the smaller isolators under the crowsons. Perhaps that will reduce the effect a bit but hopefully will keep it relatively invisible.

jcmccorm 04-22-2019 11:57 AM

@Sekosche thank you for the build pics and the impressions. Your build looks nice!

I have a question about your build though. You've got two layers of feet; one between the bottom plywood and floor and one between the upper plywood and bottom plywood (where the drivers are). So you've got isolation between your seating and the drivers. This is a bit unusual compared to other BOSS builds I've been looking at. I'm curious what led you to that design decision and whether you think it's better than just one layer of isolation. Thanks!

Rowan611 04-22-2019 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcmccorm (Post 57938258)
@Sekosche thank you for the build pics and the impressions. Your build looks nice!



I have a question about your build though. You've got two layers of feet; one between the bottom plywood and floor and one between the upper plywood and bottom plywood (where the drivers are). So you've got isolation between your seating and the drivers. This is a bit unusual compared to other BOSS builds I've been looking at. I'm curious what led you to that design decision and whether you think it's better than just one layer of isolation. Thanks!



His Crowsons are between the two layers.


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jcmccorm 04-22-2019 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rowan611 (Post 57939286)
His Crowsons are between the two layers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ahhhh, thank you!

I'm not seeing it though. Looks like the same round hemispherical isolators between the plywood pieces.

Rowan611 04-22-2019 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcmccorm (Post 57939942)
Ahhhh, thank you!



I'm not seeing it though. Looks like the same round hemispherical isolators between the plywood pieces.



Yep. That’s because they work with the Crowsons better than the ISO’s that come with them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sekosche 04-22-2019 10:06 PM

BOSS Build with 3 JBL 12” drivers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rowan611 (Post 57937294)
What slope are you using for those LPF? Currently I don’t have any filters on my Crowsons. I’ll be building a BOSS riser soon, and like you I’ll be combining the two. @lukeamdman said the same thing about the Crowsons being better 15hz and below. I can’t wait to get mine built.

Totally different question. What do you power your Crowsons with?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Awesome little project, good luck on your BOSS build. I’m using a 12-18dB butterworth LPF I think on most my gear, and add a heavy DEQ boost (6-12dB) in the iNuke software for below 20-25Hz for less than reference level listening and +3-6dB boost in the miniDSP below 20Hz.

Since adding the BOSS I dropped my MA’s down to a 25Hz LPF and have the BOSS at 35Hz LPF.

My Crowsons and BOSS are both on the same amp using one channel of an iNuke 6KDSP, but might move the BOSS to an extra 3KDSP channel, as it’s significantly underutilizing the 6K’s power.

I do wonder what it would feel like without the separate Crowsons platform with just the couch resting firmly on the BOSS riser but that would mean no MA’s; this setup worked very well for just the Crowsons having the seating secured to the platform to better directly distribute the energy.

I might go back to a single riser one day, but the whole point was to not ditch the Crowsons, as they are still pretty sweet below ~15Hz (and obviously not cheap), but even with BEQ movies that’s a pretty limited bandwidth to justify a lot of modifications to keep in the system. The seating is a bit higher than I’d prefer too with both platforms, so will see how long the double riser holds a place in my system.

Either way, the BOSS is here to stay. I can see quite a few variations of this little guy popping up with different drivers over time.

Rowan611 04-22-2019 10:20 PM

BOSS Build with 3 JBL 12” drivers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekosche (Post 57940864)
Awesome little project, good luck on your BOSS build. I’m using a 12-18dB butterworth LPF I think on most my gear, and add a heavy DEQ boost (6-12dB) in the iNuke software for below 20-25Hz for less than reference level listening and +3-6dB boost in the miniDSP below 20Hz.

My Crowsons and BOSS are both on the same amp using one channel of an iNuke 6KDSP, but might move the BOSS to the 3KDSP, as it’s significantly underutilizing the 6K’s power.

I do wonder what it would feel like without the separate Crowsons platform with just the couch resting firmly on the BOSS riser but that would mean no MA’s. I might try this one day, but the whole point was to not ditch the Crowsons, as thy are still pretty sweet below ~15Hz (and obviously not cheap), but even with BEQ movies that’s a pretty limited bandwidth to justify a lot of modifications to keep in the system. The seating is a bit higher than I’d prefer too with both platforms.

Either way, the BOSS is here to stay. I can see quite a few variations of this little guy popping up.



Ok. Why not just place the Crowsons under the couch and forgo the additional riser?

My plan is to place them as they are now, just on top of the BOSS. I’ve got a 6k coming for my Crowsons and I’ll power the JBLs off the 3k I have now. I only use the Mini dsp; I don’t like the software for the INukes/NX amps. From everything I’ve read I’ll have to put a filter on the BOSS, but sill plan on running the Crowsons filterless; unless the added power makes them distracting. Right now I don’t get much out of them above 35hz or 40hz.

I will add that I typically don’t watch a movie WITHOUT my Crowsons having BEQ applied. But, no other filters.


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