B&c 21DS115-4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 23 Old 04-20-2019, 07:41 PM - Thread Starter
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B&c 21ds115-4

I am looking to build a large sealed sub. Has anybody built a 21 inch pro sub in a sealed configuration yet?

Last edited by ClevelandFreeman; 04-20-2019 at 08:06 PM.
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post #2 of 23 Old 04-21-2019, 01:04 AM
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https://data-bass.com/systems

there are a few on that page. Pro 21" drivers don't require large sealed to achieve Qtc.7
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post #3 of 23 Old 04-21-2019, 09:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Saw that. Interesting results. Thanks.
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post #4 of 23 Old 04-21-2019, 12:57 PM
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Why a large sealed sub? Usually people want sealed because they want to save space. Large cabs usually get ported. What are you trying to achieve? How large are you thinking?
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post #5 of 23 Old 04-21-2019, 03:57 PM
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Don't waste your time with these in sealed. Build them into ported boxes. They're monsters for it with that motor force.
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post #6 of 23 Old 04-21-2019, 09:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samps View Post
Why a large sealed sub? Usually people want sealed because they want to save space. Large cabs usually get ported. What are you trying to achieve? How large are you thinking?
I currently have two SI 18 sonosubs. I am retiring from active duty and we are downsizing, house wise. I was thinking one large 24" cube in the corner and I will be done.

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Don't waste your time with these in sealed. Build them into ported boxes. They're monsters for it with that motor force.
I was playing around with WINISD, 12 CUFT, 18 HZ tune @ a 1000 watts looks really good. Quite the small box for a 21.
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post #7 of 23 Old 04-22-2019, 04:48 AM
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You could build the 24" cube and put both SI18s in it dual opposed. Since you already have the SI18s it would be a cheap experiment and will likely be enough.
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My current box is 11 cuft with an 18Hz, the 21DS115 drives very well in there. I also designed a 30x30x30 cube for a 21DS115, a little less volume and 19Hz tune. I would definitely suggest porting a 21DS115, the added box size is very much worth the added output
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post #9 of 23 Old 04-22-2019, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClevelandFreeman View Post
I currently have two SI 18 sonosubs. I am retiring from active duty and we are downsizing, house wise. I was thinking one large 24" cube in the corner and I will be done.



I was playing around with WINISD, 12 CUFT, 18 HZ tune @ a 1000 watts looks really good. Quite the small box for a 21.
If you can go that big, that's awesome, but you don't need to go so large and those can take more than 1kw of power.
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post #10 of 23 Old 04-23-2019, 02:56 PM - Thread Starter
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If you can go that big, that's awesome, but you don't need to go so large and those can take more than 1kw of power.
What would you suggest?
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post #11 of 23 Old 04-23-2019, 02:57 PM
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What would you suggest?
For what?
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post #12 of 23 Old 04-23-2019, 05:23 PM - Thread Starter
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For what?
Box size...
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post #13 of 23 Old 04-23-2019, 05:27 PM
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Box size...
As big as you can fit up to like 15 cubes? Model it out. Just saying you can go smaller if you have to.

I built some boxes that were about 8.3 cubes internal (not counting port volume) that came out awesome, 16hz tune. Would have went bigger if space permitted, though.

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post #14 of 23 Old 04-23-2019, 05:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks!!!!
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post #15 of 23 Old 04-23-2019, 06:33 PM
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I was running sims earlier today with the 21DS115. 9 net cuft 15Hz tune is what I came up with. 1500 watts pushes 20mm of excursion, that is all the further it should be pushed. 20Hz ouput is around 114db, 10Hz is around 96db. I did have a 2nd order HPF filter at 14Hz. It is a manageable sized box with a nice extension. I did not go as far as coming up with box dimensions yet

What goals/parameters would you have for a cabinet?

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post #16 of 23 Old 04-24-2019, 09:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
I was running sims earlier today with the 21DS115. 9 net cuft 15Hz tune is what I came up with. 1500 watts pushes 20mm of excursion, that is all the further it should be pushed. 20Hz ouput is around 114db, 10Hz is around 96db. I did have a 2nd order HPF filter at 14Hz. It is a manageable sized box with a nice extension. I did not go as far as coming up with box dimensions yet

What goals/parameters would you have for a cabinet?

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Thank you Red Five. I was going to use the 24 X 24 and 24 x 48 precut MDF panels from Lowes to make it easier. 25.5 H X 48 W X 24 D. Subwoofer facing FWD, double front baffle. Slot port firing either FWD or to the side. I did some quick modeling and it is around 13 CUFT. I still have to figure out what a good tuning is for that volume.
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post #17 of 23 Old 04-25-2019, 05:40 AM
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What are you thinking of using for power? If you know your power source you can match the box size and tune with the HPF filter enabled to push the driver out to about 20mm at peak power. Though I am not sure how much extension you really need. Beyond 11 cuft the return on box displacement starts to drop on the 21DS115. You can get more out of it getting larger, but you have to ask how much box do you want to haul around?



I got the house to myself last night for a short bit, naturally I tried pushing Bass I Love You. I was not even at half power on the 3000 and the house felt like it was coming undone. I should have taken a video, the projector was shaking all over the screen The room is roughly 6000ft3 and the house was built in 2006, so it is reasonably sturdy. A high teen tune should not rune the experience.



-John

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post #18 of 23 Old 04-25-2019, 09:33 AM
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Precut panels are exactly what the full Marty was based on. That would be a great box for the DS21, but I would make the ports a little larger (taller) to handle the increase in displacement. The ports will also need to be longer based on how tall you make them and what tune you want. Simple adjustment to the plans. There is a Marty calculator out there if you can find it.
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post #19 of 23 Old 04-25-2019, 12:40 PM
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I had some time to play around. See what you think
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You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
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post #20 of 23 Old 04-25-2019, 03:04 PM
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That first port resonance is lower than I would use. Air speed could be raised a bit and still be ok. I'd try those ports at 2.75 tall. That should shorten them hopefully enough to move that resonance up above the useful bandwidth.
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post #21 of 23 Old 04-25-2019, 09:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samps View Post
Precut panels are exactly what the full Marty was based on. That would be a great box for the DS21, but I would make the ports a little larger (taller) to handle the increase in displacement. The ports will also need to be longer based on how tall you make them and what tune you want. Simple adjustment to the plans. There is a Marty calculator out there if you can find it.
That design is a great start. I'll just tailor the box volume to the woofer and the port dimensions to the power I am thinking about.

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What are you thinking of using for power? If you know your power source you can match the box size and tune with the HPF filter enabled to push the driver out to about 20mm at peak power. Though I am not sure how much extension you really need. Beyond 11 cuft the return on box displacement starts to drop on the 21DS115. You can get more out of it getting larger, but you have to ask how much box do you want to haul around?



I got the house to myself last night for a short bit, naturally I tried pushing Bass I Love You. I was not even at half power on the 3000 and the house felt like it was coming undone. I should have taken a video, the projector was shaking all over the screen The room is roughly 6000ft3 and the house was built in 2006, so it is reasonably sturdy. A high teen tune should not rune the experience.


-John
I have my old school EP1500's still but I am probably going to get a EP4000. I use a MiniDSP nanoAVR HD to equalize everything so the HPF filter settings should not be a problem. That is great. I cannot wait

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I had some time to play around. See what you think
I think this will work. I appreciate it.

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That first port resonance is lower than I would use. Air speed could be raised a bit and still be ok. I'd try those ports at 2.75 tall. That should shorten them hopefully enough to move that resonance up above the useful bandwidth.
I'll do some modeling tomorrow and post it up. Thanks Bro.

Last edited by ClevelandFreeman; 04-25-2019 at 10:16 PM.
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post #22 of 23 Old 04-27-2019, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
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I attached some pics of my SI-18's. They are in 10CUFT enclosures tuned to 18HZ. These things have served me well.
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post #23 of 23 Old 04-28-2019, 08:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
As big as you can fit up to like 15 cubes? Model it out. Just saying you can go smaller if you have to.

I built some boxes that were about 8.3 cubes internal (not counting port volume) that came out awesome, 16hz tune. Would have went bigger if space permitted, though.

Would you mind sharing the dimensions for these boxes? Port size....
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