DIY Subwoofer Dilemma - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 28 Old 04-26-2019, 01:27 AM - Thread Starter
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DIY Subwoofer Dilemma

Hello all,
I am planning to build a Marty Cube Sub with 26.5", 24", 24"

1. Driver - Dayton Audio UM15-22 15 Ultimax
2. Amplifier - Behringer NU3000 iNuke


Currently I have a SVS PB 2000 hence I opted for a ported instead of a sealed one. But I have apprehensions regarding DIY as such and especially building a ported one. I think sealed one is easier to make.


I do not have any experience in building a subwoofer cabinet, but I will be taking local carpenter's help in cutting and building them.

Do you see a huge risk in making a DIY Sub. I don't not want to spend a lot and end up with a crappy Sub

If I compare with the price of PB 3000 in my place,

PB 3000 - 1600 USD
DIY Sub Woofer - 1200 USD. But with the amp I can go for one more similar sub for much lesser as amp can drive one more Sub.

Questions..
Is it okay to build a 24" 24", 24" Sealed instead of ported?
Or should I ditch the DIY idea altogether and spend the extra 400$ and go for PB 3000 instead of DIY?

Frankly I am very excited about the DIY route and want to go this route, so your advice is much appreciated.
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post #2 of 28 Old 04-26-2019, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeCR View Post
Hello all,
I am planning to build a Marty Cube Sub with 26.5", 24", 24"

1. Driver - Dayton Audio UM15-22 15 Ultimax
2. Amplifier - Behringer NU3000 iNuke


Currently I have a SVS PB 2000 hence I opted for a ported instead of a sealed one. But I have apprehensions regarding DIY as such and especially building a ported one. I think sealed one is easier to make.


I do not have any experience in building a subwoofer cabinet, but I will be taking local carpenter's help in cutting and building them.

Do you see a huge risk in making a DIY Sub. I don't not want to spend a lot and end up with a crappy Sub

If I compare with the price of PB 3000 in my place,

PB 3000 - 1600 USD
DIY Sub Woofer - 1200 USD. But with the amp I can go for one more similar sub for much lesser as amp can drive one more Sub.

Questions..
Is it okay to build a 24" 24", 24" Sealed instead of ported?
Or should I ditch the DIY idea altogether and spend the extra 400$ and go for PB 3000 instead of DIY?

Frankly I am very excited about the DIY route and want to go this route, so your advice is much appreciated.

If you are not comfortable with your wood working skills and want to ensure a good end result have you considered purchasing a flatpack? www.gsgad.com has a nice selection to choose from
Just a recommendation, if you are going with a UM I would strongly suggest moving up in cabinet size or considering a different driver if it must be a cube. The UM15 is okay in a cube, but those drivers like bigger boxes.
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post #3 of 28 Old 04-26-2019, 06:18 AM
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Get the DSP version of the amp (any amp):
https://www.parts-express.com/behrin...-dsp--248-7013
Have fun.
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post #4 of 28 Old 04-26-2019, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeCR View Post
Hello all,
I am planning to build a Marty Cube Sub with 26.5", 24", 24"

1. Driver - Dayton Audio UM15-22 15 Ultimax
2. Amplifier - Behringer NU3000 iNuke


Currently I have a SVS PB 2000 hence I opted for a ported instead of a sealed one. But I have apprehensions regarding DIY as such and especially building a ported one. I think sealed one is easier to make.


I do not have any experience in building a subwoofer cabinet, but I will be taking local carpenter's help in cutting and building them.

Do you see a huge risk in making a DIY Sub. I don't not want to spend a lot and end up with a crappy Sub

If I compare with the price of PB 3000 in my place,

PB 3000 - 1600 USD
DIY Sub Woofer - 1200 USD. But with the amp I can go for one more similar sub for much lesser as amp can drive one more Sub.

Questions..
Is it okay to build a 24" 24", 24" Sealed instead of ported?
Or should I ditch the DIY idea altogether and spend the extra 400$ and go for PB 3000 instead of DIY?

Frankly I am very excited about the DIY route and want to go this route, so your advice is much appreciated.

FWIW, I had an absolute blast building a mini-marty! Pretty much no wood-working experience (unless you count using a chop saw to make cuts in trim-work); did it mostly myself (some of the cuts were hard to do without someone holding the other side 'down.' I went to home-depot and had them rip cut each 4'x8' sheet of mdf so I could easily transport it; then used a circle saw + guide and a table saw to do the rest (and a jig-saw for driver hole).

Personally, I think they are pretty hard to 'screw' up (aside from the looks); I had a ton of 'f-it' moments with 'bad cuts' that I didn't feel like redoing and I definitely didn't put as much bracing as others, but it seems to have turned out great.

Just wondering, how did you come up with that price? $1200 for a marty cube seems high to me (unless you are using some really nice wood/the carpenter is making a really nice box)?
I think I spent a good bit less than that on my mini-marty + tools (jig-saw, table saw [used], clamps, etc).

IMO, if you want a sealed sub, I'd probably just buy a Parts-Express flat-pack combo.

GSG is a great option if the freight expenses aren't too high.
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post #5 of 28 Old 04-26-2019, 07:13 AM
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I was a union carpenter for 12 years and still went with the sealed flat pack and UM18-22 combo and a 6000DSP. OH MY GOD!!! So much damn bass!!! Used Bondo to fill gaps and make everything smooth. Turned out great!
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post #6 of 28 Old 04-26-2019, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JediMindTrick View Post
FWIW, I had an absolute blast building a mini-marty! Pretty much no wood-working experience (unless you count using a chop saw to make cuts in trim-work); did it mostly myself (some of the cuts were hard to do without someone holding the other side 'down.' I went to home-depot and had them rip cut each 4'x8' sheet of mdf so I could easily transport it; then used a circle saw + guide and a table saw to do the rest (and a jig-saw for driver hole).

Personally, I think they are pretty hard to 'screw' up (aside from the looks); I had a ton of 'f-it' moments with 'bad cuts' that I didn't feel like redoing and I definitely didn't put as much bracing as others, but it seems to have turned out great.

Just wondering, how did you come up with that price? $1200 for a marty cube seems high to me (unless you are using some really nice wood/the carpenter is making a really nice box)?
I think I spent a good bit less than that on my mini-marty + tools (jig-saw, table saw [used], clamps, etc).

IMO, if you want a sealed sub, I'd probably just buy a Parts-Express flat-pack combo.

GSG is a great option if the freight expenses aren't too high.


I need to import the driver and amp as I am not in the US. Cabinet is not much as I will be getting it made locally. And I do not intent to do the cabinet myself as I do not have much experience nor have the tools and space to make.
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post #7 of 28 Old 04-26-2019, 12:01 PM - Thread Starter
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I was a union carpenter for 12 years and still went with the sealed flat pack and UM18-22 combo and a 6000DSP. OH MY GOD!!! So much damn bass!!! Used Bondo to fill gaps and make everything smooth. Turned out great!
Good to know that. The pics look good too. I was thinking about the 18 inch, but then I thought I will settle for the 15 inch for now. But since I have the SVS PB 2000, I am thinking of going the ported way.
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post #8 of 28 Old 04-26-2019, 12:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rontalley View Post
I was a union carpenter for 12 years and still went with the sealed flat pack and UM18-22 combo and a 6000DSP. OH MY GOD!!! So much damn bass!!! Used Bondo to fill gaps and make everything smooth. Turned out great!
What size is the box? Is it looking a tad small for the 18inch driver?
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post #9 of 28 Old 04-26-2019, 12:14 PM
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I need to import the driver and amp as I am not in the US.
Knowing where you are may help with the recommendations.
Apparently, you're still able to deal with Parts Express?
Michael

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post #10 of 28 Old 04-27-2019, 04:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Knowing where you are may help with the recommendations.
Apparently, you're still able to deal with Parts Express?
Michael


I am in Muscat, Middle East. Parts express shipping is expensive. I get most of the stuff from Amazon.


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post #11 of 28 Old 04-27-2019, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeCR View Post
Hello all,
I am planning to build a Marty Cube Sub with 26.5", 24", 24"

1. Driver - Dayton Audio UM15-22 15 Ultimax
2. Amplifier - Behringer NU3000 iNuke

I don't not want to spend a lot and end up with a crappy Sub
The DSP version of the amplifier is REQUIRED, ported subs REQUIRE a HPF;
and pretty much ALL subwoofers need EQ, especially sealed...

Fear not, as you have it backwards: Why would you want to use a crappy sub like the SVS with the DIY in the room?

Now: Whether or not you can build the DIY box with quality, is another story! That's not a fault of the equipment...

If you can afford it, a UM-18 is MUCH better than the UM-15...

Generally I recommend 1 18 for every 1000cuft of room volume, as a minimum...
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post #12 of 28 Old 04-27-2019, 06:58 AM - Thread Starter
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The DSP version of the amplifier is REQUIRED, ported subs REQUIRE a HPF;

and pretty much ALL subwoofers need EQ, especially sealed...
...

Yes, definitely, I will get the inuke3000 with the DSP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post



If you can afford it, a UM-18 is MUCH better than the UM-15...



Generally I recommend 1 18 for every 1000cuft of room volume, as a minimum...
I will definitely consider it, though UM 18 is expensive, it is not out of budget for me. If that is the case I will have to go for the inuke 6000 amp at least I guess.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post



Fear not, as you have it backwards: Why would you want to use a crappy sub like the SVS with the DIY in the room?
I have invested in that(PB 2000) and I love it. Also not so easy to sell it either. So I was wondering using it together with the DIY.
Do you think forget about PB2000 and go for a Sealed cube with UM18 is a good idea?
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post #13 of 28 Old 04-27-2019, 07:09 AM
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The best bang for your buck would be to go with GSG Audio, a Mini Marty or Full Marty, with the UM-18 and a used iNuke 3000DSP.
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Last edited by blake18; 04-27-2019 at 07:16 AM.
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post #14 of 28 Old 04-27-2019, 08:00 AM - Thread Starter
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The best bang for your buck would be to go with GSG Audio, a Mini Marty or Full Marty, with the UM-18 and a used iNuke 3000DSP.


Will iNuke 3000 DSP be enough for UM-18?

Won’t it need iNuke 6000?


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post #15 of 28 Old 04-27-2019, 10:46 AM
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What size is the box? Is it looking a tad small for the 18inch driver?
It’s 4 cubic feet designed specifically for the UM18-22. Tons of bass for my room.

Specifications:• Panel thickness: 3/4", front baffle is 1-1/2" • Panel material: Medium Density Fiberboard (MDF) • Finished net cabinet volume (subtracting the double thick baffle, bracing, and woofer volume): 4.0 cubic feet • External dimensions: 23" H x 20" W x 20.75" D • Subwoofer recess: 1/2" • Weight: 62 lbs. • Made in the U.S.A.

https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-18-ultimax-subwoofer-and-cabinet-bundle--300-7099
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post #16 of 28 Old 04-27-2019, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by BeeCR View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by blake18 View Post
The best bang for your buck would be to go with GSG Audio, a Mini Marty or Full Marty, with the UM-18 and a used iNuke 3000DSP.

Will iNuke 3000 DSP be enough for UM-18?

Won’t it need iNuke 6000?


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Oh yes, if you run it in bridged mode 2ohm load, it should be plenty.
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post #17 of 28 Old 04-27-2019, 03:12 PM
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What part of shipping to Muscat, Middle East are you guys missing?

Build a sealed box with the wood and biggest driver you can find and you'll be fine. You can't mess up a sealed sub; it's much easier to DIY ported and get it wrong.
The two subs will be fine together.
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Thinking of upgrades afterward, the UM18 in a sealed box can be upgraded to any size ported later on. Changing drivers is a bigger deal.
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post #19 of 28 Old 04-27-2019, 08:45 PM - Thread Starter
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What part of shipping to Muscat, Middle East are you guys missing?

Build a sealed box with the wood and biggest driver you can find and you'll be fine. You can't mess up a sealed sub; it's much easier to DIY ported and get it wrong.
The two subs will be fine together.
Michael
Subwoofer Driver and the amplifier are 2 items I have to import. Yes, the cabinet will be made locally.
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post #20 of 28 Old 04-28-2019, 04:34 AM
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Changing drivers is a bigger deal.
Around here (AVS) we don't change drivers, we ADD drivers.
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If you can afford it, a UM-18 is MUCH better than the UM-15...

Generally I recommend 1 18 for every 1000cuft of room volume, as a minimum...

I have placed the order for UM-18

It cost me equivalent of 527 $
It takes around a couple of weeks for it to reach my place. I have started the research for finding the best way to get the amplifier now.
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post #22 of 28 Old 05-02-2019, 10:06 AM
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I have placed the order for UM-18

It cost me equivalent of 527 $
For one UM18

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I have placed the order for UM-18

It cost me equivalent of 527 $
It takes around a couple of weeks for it to reach my place. I have started the research for finding the best way to get the amplifier now.
Yup.. Sad but true. Here we pay a premium for all these especially the heavy stuff, shipping is very high.
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If I buy miniDSP 2x4 HD, I can use a non-DSP Biehringer or Crown .. right? Any pros and cons for going with a miniDSP 2x4 HD instead of DSP ?
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post #25 of 28 Old 05-18-2019, 07:40 AM
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In my mind:

Pros: REW adjustments plug directly into the miniDSP, the HPF can be set lower (without a workaround), can use pretty much any pro amp.

Cons: Another piece of equipment in the signal chain. Possibly more $$. More wires.

Having a miniDSP gives you more flexibility, introduces a bit more complexity.
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post #26 of 28 Old 05-18-2019, 09:08 AM - Thread Starter
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In my mind:

Pros: REW adjustments plug directly into the miniDSP, the HPF can be set lower (without a workaround), can use pretty much any pro amp.

Cons: Another piece of equipment in the signal chain. Possibly more $$. More wires.

Having a miniDSP gives you more flexibility, introduces a bit more complexity.

I was thinking with a miniDSP, I can also calibrate my existing Sub ( PB 2000) along with the new MartyCube that I am planning to make. So I can go an non-DSP amplifier for my Marty Cube
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post #27 of 28 Old 05-18-2019, 09:41 AM
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The mniDSP can DSP down to 10hz if I recall. The iNuke stops at 20hz and so you have to fart around to make it extend lower.

Not sure if the miniDSP has a limiter, but that is something you'd have to level match yourself to the external device. Output voltage from the amplifier calculated as per ohm's law.

The inuke 6k would allow for 2 UM-18's to be powered in the future, where as a 3k might struggle.
The old school Class-H amplifiers are very inefficient, often 40-60% at-best, and are about 8 times heavier, the EP4k for example.
Class-D only produces the amount of power needed as it is needed, therefore it is higher efficiency and cooler running, and can make use of smaller heatsinks because they don't generate 50% waste-heat.
The inuke's are Class-D and the Crown 6k and iTech is Class-D, the cheaper Crown's are Class-AB/D hybrids (last I checked, which was 10 years ago... LOL)
PowerSoft K/X and SpeakerPower are also Class-D.

It makes no sense to have 10kW of waste-heat to make 10kW of bass, that would require a 240V 100A breaker just for 1 amp LOL. That's why you don't see old school amps rated for much more than 2-4kW.
MOST music and movies are very bursty/dynamic in nature, making 10-20kW from a bank of caps short-term isn't too big a deal, hence why the K20 is possible.
Pro amps are designed mostly for live music where power is only required in bursts (guitars, drums, vocals.)
Generally the RMS power is roughly half the peak power, many of the higher powered designs have auto limiters to avoid popping breakers or exceeding the thermal/ampere limits of the guts as the fans hit max RPM.
Many rock concerts also play the numbers game, if you throw enough cones and amps at the problem, the SPL at Distance X will be solved. So you'll see 30-100 18's and 30-100 amplifiers, powered with multiple diesel 18wheelers.

Ported is louder than sealed roughly from tuning until about ~40hz.
If this is for movies, 15-17hz is a good tuning point, and 25hz if it is just music.
Ported boxes requiring a HPF at the tuning frequency.

Most sealed boxes start rolling off around 30hz, but the rolloff is less severe than ported, and stays in-phase for the most part, unlike ported.
This always you to boost the ULF flat to 3-5hz. With 4 to 8 18's those frequencies will start to become usable.
Sealed eats up more power and thus is likely to cause melting and bottoming sooner than ported would. No free lunch.

When it comes to making bass, you basically want the biggest cones you can afford, that have the highest power-handling and excursion, and as many of them as you can afford.
db/w/m is important above 40hz, excursion is important below 40hz.

It takes about ~32 watts to push 32 18's to 1mm, but it takes ~3200watts to push 1 18 to 32mm, and both are the same SPL.
and then what happens when the array goes to 3mm's? (or 20mm's?) EXACTLY!
The single melting and farting in seconds/minutes, and the array is bass-for-days with zero distortion the whole time!

Thus: if/when you want it louder, just add more. 6db per doubling.
Doubling the distance is -6db in free-space, in a room it is slightly improved (when not placed in a room-null.)
Groundplane is half-space, a wall is 1/4th space, and a corner is 1/8th space. (Corners are loudest.)
The difference being room-gain, which starts when the wave bounces off 1-or-more of the 6 surfaces and/or when the wave no longer fits in the room.

Sometimes moving closer to a subwoofer makes it sound weaker because of a lack of these additional reflections and/or being in a null zone; or conversely moving away makes it louder for the same.
Nearfield is when your ear is closer to the cone than the closest surface(the floor), then your SPL will be at maximum (minus room-gain though).
Therefore the loudest/smoothest place for a subwoofer is often at head-level directly behind the golden-seat firing into the back of your skull point-blank range and delayed several ms to match the LCR's. Too bad it is not very practical and low WAF!
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post #28 of 28 Old 05-20-2019, 12:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
The mniDSP can DSP down to 10hz if I recall. The iNuke stops at 20hz and so you have to fart around to make it extend lower.

Not sure if the miniDSP has a limiter, but that is something you'd have to level match yourself to the external device. Output voltage from the amplifier calculated as per ohm's law.

The inuke 6k would allow for 2 UM-18's to be powered in the future, where as a 3k might struggle.
The old school Class-H amplifiers are very inefficient, often 40-60% at-best, and are about 8 times heavier, the EP4k for example.
Class-D only produces the amount of power needed as it is needed, therefore it is higher efficiency and cooler running, and can make use of smaller heatsinks because they don't generate 50% waste-heat.
The inuke's are Class-D and the Crown 6k and iTech is Class-D, the cheaper Crown's are Class-AB/D hybrids (last I checked, which was 10 years ago... LOL)
PowerSoft K/X and SpeakerPower are also Class-D......p
This is lot of information. Thanks a lot
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