Advice Needed Hooking Up Crown XLS1502/ Onkyo/ HGS(Passive) Sub - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 21 Old 04-27-2019, 07:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Advice Needed Hooking Up Crown XLS1502/ Onkyo/ HGS(Passive) Sub

Not sure this is the correct discussion format but here we go. I have a Crown 1502 Pro Amp ordered and having never even seen a "Pro Amp" let alone use one in a Home Theater application I have a few questions. My AVR is an Onkyo TX NR818 that drives Front Klipsch KLF30's, KLF-C7 center and RS-7 side surrounds. Rear surrounds, KLF20's are driven by a separate Harman Kardon stand alone power amp. The Crown will be used to drive an Velodyne HGS 18 sub-woofer that I have given up on the amp after repairs seem to break-down quickly on. I'm not 100 % sure the HGS speaker is still good but appears OK and I can't find any information stating what ohm value it is 2-4-6-or 8???? If this speaker is dead I will be installing a Dayton Ultimax 18 in it's place. So, is this as simple as running an RCA sub cable to the Crown and speaker wires to the Sub? Or do I need special cables to connect to the Crown to both the Onkyo and the HGS and later the Dayton 18 Ultimax if needed? Plan to run the amp bridged for maximum output to the sub or am I mis-understanding how a Pro Amp hooks up and operates? Will my sub output on the Onkyo provide enough signal juice to drive the Crown? Also, I plan to use the LFE crossover in the amp set at 50hz, does this sound correct? Sorry for so many questions but don't want to screw anything up with my "ignorance". Although I've been playing with Home Theater for many years, my set-ups have always been with conventional home audio components that were pretty much straight-forward and no "pro amps". Thanks for any and all advvice!
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post #2 of 21 Old 04-27-2019, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by zcat View Post
Not sure this is the correct discussion format but here we go. I have a Crown 1502 Pro Amp ordered and having never even seen a "Pro Amp" let alone use one in a Home Theater application I have a few questions. My AVR is an Onkyo TX NR818 that drives Front Klipsch KLF30's, KLF-C7 center and RS-7 side surrounds. Rear surrounds, KLF20's are driven by a separate Harman Kardon stand alone power amp. The Crown will be used to drive an Velodyne HGS 18 sub-woofer that I have given up on the amp after repairs seem to break-down quickly on. I'm not 100 % sure the HGS speaker is still good but appears OK and I can't find any information stating what ohm value it is 2-4-6-or 8???? If this speaker is dead I will be installing a Dayton Ultimax 18 in it's place. So, is this as simple as running an RCA sub cable to the Crown and speaker wires to the Sub? Or do I need special cables to connect to the Crown to both the Onkyo and the HGS and later the Dayton 18 Ultimax if needed? Plan to run the amp bridged for maximum output to the sub or am I mis-understanding how a Pro Amp hooks up and operates? Will my sub output on the Onkyo provide enough signal juice to drive the Crown? Also, I plan to use the LFE crossover in the amp set at 50hz, does this sound correct? Sorry for so many questions but don't want to screw anything up with my "ignorance". Although I've been playing with Home Theater for many years, my set-ups have always been with conventional home audio components that were pretty much straight-forward and no "pro amps". Thanks for any and all advvice!

So, I’m not sure your plan will work. I’m assuming the amp for the HGS is still on the cabinet. It’s been several decades since I’ve looked at the back of one of those beasts. A picture would help. But, I’m thinking there’s no way to run it passive (this what you’re trying to do; subs without built in amps are called passive subs vs your active sub). If your amp is dead. Your best bet would be to remove it and use either a piece of MDF or Baltic Birch to cover the whole removing the amp will leave. If you’re more comfortable with normal banana plugs for connecting your sub with that’s fine. However, I would recommend buying a few things off Parts Express.

Here is a list:

1 of these - Neutrik NL4MP Speakon 4 Pole Panel Mount 092-052. You’ll drill a 15/16 hole in the piece to cover where the plate amp was. You’ll also need one of these; Neutrik SCDP-0 Sealing Gasket for D-size Connectors Black. This makes the pole mount air tight.

2 of these - Neutrik NL4FX Speakon SPX Cable Connector 4P 092-190. This will context to the 1502 amp out and to the 4 Pole Panel Mount.

The people here can help you understand how to hook up all these components. How do you plan on connecting the 1502 to your Onkyo? The 1502 doesn’t have RCA outs. You’ll need either a XLR to RCA cable or RCA to 1/4”. Personally, I’d get a XLR to RCA from Monoprice or Amazon.

Don’t use the crossovers built into the amp. Use the one built into your Onkyo, set at 80hz or 100hz.

Don’t rush anything. I don’t know how you plan on matching that Piano gloss of the HGS. If it were me I’d try to get a nice high gloss from your local hardware store.






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post #3 of 21 Old 04-27-2019, 03:24 PM
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As Rowan alluded to, think of the current Velodyne plate amp as just a blank plate. Do not power it, don't use any of it's connectors. It's dead.

I did similar to what Rowan describes with a PL-200 - Drilled a 15/16" hole directly through the plate amp, in a spot where nothing was in the way. Installed a Neutrik connector (looks like you may have room for one of these in the mid-lower section - They self-seal, which is nice), hooked up an iNuke and off we went.

RCA -> XLR cable from Onkyo to Crown
Neutrik (SpeakOn) -> Neutrik from Crown to sub box
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post #4 of 21 Old 04-27-2019, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Rowan611, yes, the Velodyne plate amp is removed, that was why I was calling it a passive sub now. Have not sealed the back of the Velodyne but plan too. It is in the back so I'm not concerned about it matching the HGS cube finish but will use your recommendation for the cables and connectors. Must admit that I'm not familiar with these type connectors or cables. I appreciate your help, thank you.
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post #5 of 21 Old 04-27-2019, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Smcmillan2, great idea to just drill a hole in the plate amp and use it to mount the Neutrik connection for the speakon cable. old amp isn't good for anything else and that seals the hole!
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post #6 of 21 Old 04-27-2019, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smcmillan2 View Post



I did similar to what Rowan describes with a PL-200 - Drilled a 15/16" hole directly through the plate amp, in a spot where nothing was in the way.


That’s a great idea. Obviously that didn’t even occur to me. Lol.


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post #7 of 21 Old 04-28-2019, 07:09 AM
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You might find this helpful.
https://forums.audioholics.com/forum...assive.114120/

It would probably be a good idea to check the Velo’s driver with an ohm meter to get an idea of what its nominal impedance is.

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post #8 of 21 Old 04-28-2019, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Wayne, according to my digital ohm meter I read 3.7 ohms. Not sure how accurate it is, my trusty Fluke I had for about 20 years died on me & I replaced it with a cheaper meter from Lowe's last year. I assume, if this meter is close to accurate, this means it is a 4 ohm speaker so according to Crown specs, the 1502 will do 1550 watts into 4 ohms if bridged. I know the plate amp on the Velodyne was 1250 nominal output with a 3000 watt peak. Am I missing anything or does that mean this amp should be adequate for this speaker. I did look at the Audioholics thread which is basically what I'm attempting to do here.
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post #9 of 21 Old 04-28-2019, 12:17 PM
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The amp should be fine with that speaker.

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post #10 of 21 Old 05-02-2019, 03:11 PM - Thread Starter
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OK, I might need some more advice. Hooked up the Crown 1502, went through the programing to bridge it. Coming out of the Onkyo RCA sub output to the XLR input in Channel one of the Crown. Out of the Crown, output one with Speakon and into the "passive" Velodyne with a Neutrik connection added to the Velodyne. Went into the set-up menu on the Onkyo to set speaker level and bought up the subwoofer channel to see if it would rumble like it used to when the Velodyne was still a powered speaker but no sound. I did get a flickering green light on both sides of the Crown but no sound. Why no sound? Is it possible the signal from the Onkyo is to low to be detected by the Crown, I did leave the Crown in the "lower" normal setting which the manual recommended. At this point I'm not sure which way to proceed?

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post #11 of 21 Old 05-02-2019, 03:23 PM
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How did you wire the Neutriks (from amp all the way to driver)? For bridged mode on an iNuke it should all be +1/-1, except at the amp side, where it should be +1/+2. Suspect similar on Crown.

If you have signal lights lighting up on the Crown you're getting signal. Something should come out of the sub if it's wired correctly.

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post #12 of 21 Old 05-02-2019, 03:55 PM - Thread Starter
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I wired the Neutrik +1 and +2 to the woofer, I thought that was what the Crown Manual said. Should I be able to detect a signal with my digital meter on the back side of the Neutrik where the speaker is hooked up? Sorry for dumb questions but I'm not near the expert on stuff when it hooks up and doesn't work which is seldom but it does happen.
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post #13 of 21 Old 05-02-2019, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zcat View Post
Coming out of the Velodyne RCA sub output to the XLR input in Channel one of the Crown.
Hold up, is this a typo? The RCA -> XLR should be connected to the sub out on your Onkyo TX NR818.

If you can, try connecting the output cable from the Crown directly to the driver, bypassing the Neutriks on the sub side. Something isn't wired correctly if you're getting zero output from the sub and the Crown is getting signal.

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post #14 of 21 Old 05-02-2019, 04:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, that was a mistake, actually it was the sub output RCA on the Onkyo to the Crown. I'll give it a shot running straight to the driver from the Crown and see what that does. I've never used these Speakon connections before and I like that they look really robust except for the rear of the Neutrik, very small hook-up tabs and somewhat crowded.
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post #15 of 21 Old 05-02-2019, 05:32 PM - Thread Starter
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smcmillan2, hard wire straight to the driver bought it to life so I have the Speakon cord wired wrong. Any suggestions of how much gain I should use and the Crown dial?
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post #16 of 21 Old 05-02-2019, 06:27 PM
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smcmillan2, hard wire straight to the driver bought it to life so I have the Speakon cord wired wrong. Any suggestions of how much gain I should use and the Crown dial?
Great!

I don't know anything about the driver in that sub. Nor do I know what ramifications defeating the servo control has, if any, on how it will perform now. I would start with the gain low, see how the output is, and if necessary increase gain in small increments.

Looks like a sealed sub, so cone excursion is probably not an issue.

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post #17 of 21 Old 05-03-2019, 02:13 AM - Thread Starter
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I appreciate all the advice that has been provided in this project. At this point I need to reconfigure how the speakon cord is wired. I bought the cord pre-wired in a 10 foot length with 2 conductors that are on the wrong poles for running in bridged amp output. That shouldn't be too hard but setting gain levels and filter settings as well as crossover points will take some time. The HGS driver looks almost new for a 20 year old speaker and seems to be working ok but if any issues pop up with it I'll throw a Dayton 18" ultimax in and call it a day. Again, thanks for the help!
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post #18 of 21 Old 05-03-2019, 10:21 AM - Thread Starter
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OK, this journey is getting pretty interesting now. I figured out the speakon wiring problems and reconfigured the hook ups, tested my driver using a battery for polarity, changed the sensitivity to .775 hoping for more bass because it just did not have any punch at all. Really disappointed so I got an idea to hook up one channel of my old Phase Linear Parametric Equalizer to the Onkyo sub-woofer output, then out of the equalizer with the RCA and into the Crown with the XLR and wow, that sure changed the output. At this stage I have to think the signal from the Onkyo is sort of anemic and the equalizer is boosting it and of course there is the Equalizer functions too which seem to really change the tone. So, here I am and would welcome any suggestions, comments, criticisms or whatever. The Phase Linear was not what I had figured into this and just tried it on a hunch because I didn't know what else to try???
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post #19 of 21 Old 05-03-2019, 11:24 AM
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Have you played with the input gain knob on the front of the crown? With the low input voltage setting you should have enough gain. Is it still set to 50Hz? I would go somewhat higher. Are you sure the sub output level isnt just set very low on the receiver?
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post #20 of 21 Old 05-03-2019, 11:42 AM
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In my personal experience, Onkyo are notorious for lame low voltage output on the sub out. Your mains are very sensitive which exacerbates the situation. You will probably need a signal booster, Art Cleanbox Pro, etc.
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post #21 of 21 Old 05-03-2019, 01:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Chris, I believe the Phase Linear is acting somewhat as a signal booster. With the gain on the Phase Linear maxed out and the gain on the Crown at about 3:00 my signal lights are bumping the red on the crown so I think there is enough signal at this point. Volume doesn't seem to be a problem however it sounds slightly boomy or more like a giant bass speaker rather than a subwoofer if you know what I mean. My HGS used to not just be loud but seemed deeper as well with more pounding in the chest you could feel and shaking the walls. This is a different room than what I had the system in before, that was concrete floor with carpet, now a wooden floor carpeted, shape of the room was way different and ceiling was much lower. Maybe it's time to try moving this monster around the room. Right now I have it in the right front corner angled toward the seating about 8-9 feet away.
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