B&C iPal Drivers versus the competition - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 19Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 39 Old 05-01-2019, 05:22 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Darian97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 180
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 146 Post(s)
Liked: 184
B&C iPal Drivers versus the competition

So for the first time, I'm seriously considering DIY in my new theater. I've owned many ID and mainstream speakers during my multiple home theaters. I'm still a ways away from breaking ground on my new home. Just starting the research process. My first of many questions to come is, why don't more diy'ers use iPal drivers or something similar in their subs versus Dayton or Stereo Integrity? It looks like the pro audio drivers come extremely close to ulf output compared to drivers that are more geared towards home theater but the mid bass and upper bass is considerably better. Not sure if I want to go down the rabbit hole of DIY but here goes nothing...
Darian97 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 39 Old 05-01-2019, 05:46 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
BassThatHz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Northern Okan range (NW Cascades region)
Posts: 10,646
Mentioned: 222 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3682 Post(s)
Liked: 4181
Total cone-area is the most important aspect to an array of subwoofers
Chris Popovich likes this.
BassThatHz is offline  
post #3 of 39 Old 05-01-2019, 06:29 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bear123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: PA
Posts: 6,172
Mentioned: 77 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2505 Post(s)
Liked: 3913
I think folks who can fit lots of subs can use cheaper drivers like the UM-18 to provide a lot more low end output. With high efficiency mains with 10,12, and 15" woofers, efficient mid bass from subs may not be as big of a requirement.

Ipal type drivers were the perfect solution for me as I need a pair of subs with a small footprint with the best all around performance from top to bottom, and strong mid bass to supplement my small main speakers due to living room. The extremely low distortion appealed to me as well.

I do see a trend of more people leaning towards the 21" pro audio drivers from B&C, but not many using the Ipals(21) as they are much more costly and more difficult to implement(1 ohm).

If your willing to spend more, I think the 18 Ipal will outperform the standard NEO 21's despite the smaller size. My 18's do, and the Ipal should be pretty similar.
bear123 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 39 Old 05-01-2019, 08:48 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
corradizo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: near Chicago
Posts: 3,415
Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1527 Post(s)
Liked: 1584
B&C iPal Drivers versus the competition

If you've got ipal money, that's great. :-). The sweet spot IMO (budgetwise) is the B&C 21DS115-4 or the SW152. In a ported enclosure of 11cuft tuned to 15hz the DS115 drops a little lower in impedance 3.3ohm and thus can take better advantage of a value amp like the inuke6000. I have two on one 6000dsp and they're the closest I'll get to an itilian made hot rod I'll get.
stegen, bear123, JCJetta and 1 others like this.
corradizo is online now  
post #5 of 39 Old 05-01-2019, 09:27 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,891
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1192 Post(s)
Liked: 663
Isn't iPal a system with dedicated Powersoft processor-amps?

--
"In many cases there aren’t two sides unless one side is 'reality' and the other is 'nonsense.'" - Phil Plait
Serious Audio Blog 
DS-21 is offline  
post #6 of 39 Old 05-01-2019, 10:00 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
notnyt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,197
Mentioned: 315 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3731 Post(s)
Liked: 3705
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post
Isn't iPal a system with dedicated Powersoft processor-amps?
You can get the ipal drivers on their own. They're low impedance.

That said, the 21ds115-4 is higher efficiency than the ipal drivers and costs less. Most home systems do not need the sustained power handling of the ipal units and the 21ds115 ends up being a better choice.
stegen and Mike Butny like this.
notnyt is offline  
post #7 of 39 Old 05-02-2019, 04:41 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Darian97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 180
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 146 Post(s)
Liked: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
Total cone-area is the most important aspect to an array of subwoofers
I'm pretty sure I understand your comment but care to elaborate a bit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
I think folks who can fit lots of subs can use cheaper drivers like the UM-18 to provide a lot more low end output. With high efficiency mains with 10,12, and 15" woofers, efficient mid bass from subs may not be as big of a requirement.

Ipal type drivers were the perfect solution for me as I need a pair of subs with a small footprint with the best all around performance from top to bottom, and strong mid bass to supplement my small main speakers due to living room. The extremely low distortion appealed to me as well.

I do see a trend of more people leaning towards the 21" pro audio drivers from B&C, but not many using the Ipals(21) as they are much more costly and more difficult to implement(1 ohm).

If your willing to spend more, I think the 18 Ipal will outperform the standard NEO 21's despite the smaller size. My 18's do, and the Ipal should be pretty similar.
So using a pro audio type driver in a subwoofer isn't as important if you're using, say, 1099's or 1299's as your mains? Do you mind sharing the type of enclosure, your driver of choice, and dimensions of your subs? I forgot the 21 ipal is rated at 1 ohm. Will definitely stay away from that. The 18" ipal and the B&C 21's you mentioned are very intriguing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by corradizo View Post
If you've got ipal money, that's great. :-). The sweet spot IMO (budgetwise) is the B&C 21DS115-4 or the SW152. In a ported enclosure of 11cuft tuned to 15hz the DS115 drops a little lower in impedance 3.3ohm and thus can take better advantage of a value amp like the inuke6000. I have two on one 6000dsp and they're the closest I'll get to an itilian made hot rod I'll get.
This is great info. Thank you. I just find it interesting that these type drivers aren't more widely used in home theater applications based on the advantages I'm reading about.
Darian97 is offline  
post #8 of 39 Old 05-02-2019, 04:57 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,076
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 398 Post(s)
Liked: 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darian97 View Post
This is great info. Thank you. I just find it interesting that these type drivers aren't more widely used in home theater applications based on the advantages I'm reading about.
I'm not, and there are a few that post on here that use them. The speaker price and amp price are big reasons most don't use them and their larger benefits mostly run along the lines of continued, ultra high output versus copious amounts of ULF.


I believe the SKhorn was built around the iPal, but most put the 21DS/SW in them (cost savings).
Trimlock is offline  
post #9 of 39 Old 05-02-2019, 05:07 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bear123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: PA
Posts: 6,172
Mentioned: 77 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2505 Post(s)
Liked: 3913
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darian97 View Post



So using a pro audio type driver in a subwoofer isn't as important if you're using, say, 1099's or 1299's as your mains? Do you mind sharing the type of enclosure, your driver of choice, and dimensions of your subs? I forgot the 21 ipal is rated at 1 ohm. Will definitely stay away from that. The 18" ipal and the B&C 21's you mentioned are very intriguing.
Well, I don't have first hand experience with using larger woofer mains, but yes, it makes sense to me that large efficiency mains capable of lots of mid bass might not benefit as much from pro audio subs. I think there may still be some benefit, but for me in a living room with small mains and limited to two smallish subs, it makes a HUGE difference.

My drivers:
https://data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=112
Cabs:
https://www.parts-express.com/denovo...seri--300-7079
Amp:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...amplifier.html

Cabinet is 23h x 20w x 20.75d

I don't see my driver readily available in the US anymore so you might have to look overseas, UK, but Im not sure how expensive shipping would be even if you found a great price. The 18ipal here might be a better option although the 2 ohm load makes it difficult for most amps. Mine are 8 ohm.

What sold me on my drivers was, ultra low distortion, more low end output than the B&C 21" Neo driver(21SW152), about the same top end, easy to drive 8 ohm load, and of course smaller size for my living room than the 21's. My Inuke can drive a pair to xmax, but I'd need a much better and more expensive amp to drive the 18" Ipals. I imagine a bigger better amp with more burst would get a lot more out of my drivers up top but I'm pretty sure I already have more output than I can use with the Inuke's power. They are 98 dB efficient in the upper bass.

If I ever decide to go to a pair of dual opposed, I would probably consider the Ipal 18's for the 2nd cab as it would be a 4 ohm load. This is not even a remote consideration at this point....but it must be in my brain somewhere haha.
Mike Butny likes this.

Last edited by bear123; 05-02-2019 at 05:18 AM.
bear123 is online now  
post #10 of 39 Old 05-02-2019, 05:22 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
BassThatHz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Northern Okan range (NW Cascades region)
Posts: 10,646
Mentioned: 222 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3682 Post(s)
Liked: 4181
If you look at the data-bass figures and subtract 6db for the dual IPALs, you'll notice the SI-24 beats it for the same money and not much bigger of a box.
https://data-bass.com/data?page=syst...rt=desc&mfr=-1
and that's not even the Top-O-Line SI-24...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darian97 View Post
I'm pretty sure I understand your comment but care to elaborate a bit?
SPL is a function of system cone-area x system excursion x system power-handling x system sensitivity, plus a few other things.

The extra motors and coils from a higher quantity of using cheaper drivers often offsets any advantage that the more expensive driver had. They run cooler and have X times more cone-area; each doubling nets 3 free db + 3db more for doubling cooling/power-handling/watts.

Let's say the IPAL is $1200 and the PA-460 is $90 in bulk.
5 IPAL's is $6000 vs 67 18's for the same. The 67 18's handling 33.33kW RMS and have WAY more cooling and total cone-area. Bass-for-days without stress or overheating.

If you look at it another way:
It takes about 32 watts to push 32 18's to 1mm of excursion, but it takes 3200watts to push 1 18 to 32mm's, and both are the same SPL!

The single will be farting and melting within seconds/minutes, where as the 32 18's is bass-for-days with zero strain. Now what happens when the 32 18's goes from 1mm to 6mm excursion? EXACTLY!

No need for big amplifiers, as long as you keep the load >= 2-ohms for most pro-amps.
That said: an array of amplifiers will definitely help push an array of cones with even-better results, say pairs of 8-ohms thus 4-ohms per channel, on a quad channel amp like the XBS FP20k (really that amp could drive like 16 PA-460's per channel and still be optimal LOL!)

Expensive drivers are really only useful where space is tight or/and driver quantity was gonna be low regardless.

If your goal was only 1 sub in a small box, then ok... but in any other condition it makes zero-sense... (Unless you can afford 32 IPAL's!!!...? )
BassThatHz is offline  
post #11 of 39 Old 05-02-2019, 06:40 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bear123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: PA
Posts: 6,172
Mentioned: 77 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2505 Post(s)
Liked: 3913
Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
If you look at the data-bass figures and subtract 6db for the dual IPALs, you'll notice the SI-24 beats it for the same money and not much bigger of a box.
https://data-bass.com/data?page=syst...rt=desc&mfr=-1
and that's not even the Top-O-Line SI-24...
What????? Two drivers sharing 5.5 ft^3 of space vs 16.5 ft^3 for the SI24. The dual Ipals in the super incredibly undersized enclosure also have drastically higher capability than the 24 above 35 Hz or so. I'd take a pair of Ipals in appropriately sized cabs versus a single SI24 without a moments hesitation.
bear123 is online now  
post #12 of 39 Old 05-03-2019, 09:33 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 18,408
Mentioned: 134 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2387 Post(s)
Liked: 2351
A pair of Ipals cost twice as much as a single 24.

Audio Design Associates/Outlaw
Speakerpower SP1-4000
subs-Re audio XXX 18 IB(LT).
DIY speakers-mktheater-S10/S12s
MKtheater is offline  
post #13 of 39 Old 05-03-2019, 10:29 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
notnyt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,197
Mentioned: 315 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3731 Post(s)
Liked: 3705
Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
What????? Two drivers sharing 5.5 ft^3 of space vs 16.5 ft^3 for the SI24. The dual Ipals in the super incredibly undersized enclosure also have drastically higher capability than the 24 above 35 Hz or so. I'd take a pair of Ipals in appropriately sized cabs versus a single SI24 without a moments hesitation.
Don't expect much science based from bth lol.

You get twice as many 21ds115s per 21ipal. The performance is similar unless you're putting them in a horn where the ipal has some more motor force. I'd def go with the B&C over the SI.
notnyt is offline  
post #14 of 39 Old 05-03-2019, 11:29 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 18,408
Mentioned: 134 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2387 Post(s)
Liked: 2351
Really, If the same price than dual Ipals are the go to.

Audio Design Associates/Outlaw
Speakerpower SP1-4000
subs-Re audio XXX 18 IB(LT).
DIY speakers-mktheater-S10/S12s
MKtheater is offline  
post #15 of 39 Old 05-03-2019, 11:36 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
notnyt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,197
Mentioned: 315 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3731 Post(s)
Liked: 3705
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
Really, If the same price than dual Ipals are the go to.
Sorry, think I misread your post, the ipal is similarly priced to the HS24.

That said, a pair of the 21ds115 is about the same price as the HS24
notnyt is offline  
post #16 of 39 Old 05-03-2019, 12:18 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 18,408
Mentioned: 134 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2387 Post(s)
Liked: 2351
They only have 15mm of xmax.

Audio Design Associates/Outlaw
Speakerpower SP1-4000
subs-Re audio XXX 18 IB(LT).
DIY speakers-mktheater-S10/S12s
MKtheater is offline  
post #17 of 39 Old 05-03-2019, 12:20 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
notnyt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,197
Mentioned: 315 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3731 Post(s)
Liked: 3705
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
They only have 15mm of xmax.
That's coil/gap formula. Xvar on the 21ds is greater than the 21ipal
notnyt is offline  
post #18 of 39 Old 05-03-2019, 03:23 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 18,408
Mentioned: 134 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2387 Post(s)
Liked: 2351
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
That's coil/gap formula. Xvar on the 21ds is greater than the 21ipal
That is true, is there a way to rough guess the 70%BL like the other drivers? Was the DS tested in a sealed cab? I did not see it. The UM18 has 22mm the same way, right?

Audio Design Associates/Outlaw
Speakerpower SP1-4000
subs-Re audio XXX 18 IB(LT).
DIY speakers-mktheater-S10/S12s
MKtheater is offline  
post #19 of 39 Old 05-03-2019, 03:35 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ricci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Louisville KY
Posts: 5,478
Mentioned: 166 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 373 Post(s)
Liked: 881
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
That's coil/gap formula. Xvar on the 21ds is greater than the 21ipal

That might be based B&C's Xvar spec but the 21Ipal has a lot more clean excursion than the 21ds. Effectively 50% more or about 3dB worth. Basically what you would expect based on the gap specs. I honestly don't see how it's Xvar rating could be greater but I'm not sure what B&C is basing that on. The surround is the same on both drivers. The gap specs are heavily in favor of the Ipal and the 21ds has a lot smaller spiders even after accounting for the smaller diameter coil. I'll get a sealed test done on the 21ds this summer.
Ricci is offline  
post #20 of 39 Old 05-03-2019, 03:42 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
notnyt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,197
Mentioned: 315 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3731 Post(s)
Liked: 3705
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post
That might be based B&C's Xvar spec but the 21Ipal has a lot more clean excursion than the 21ds. Effectively 50% more or about 3dB worth. Basically what you would expect based on the gap specs. I honestly don't see how it's Xvar rating could be greater but I'm not sure what B&C is basing that on. The surround is the same on both drivers. The gap specs are heavily in favor of the Ipal and the 21ds has a lot smaller spiders even after accounting for the smaller diameter coil. I'll get a sealed test done on the 21ds this summer.
Yeah, it's strange, the 21IPAL xmax is listed as 22mm, and the 21DS is 15mm. Yet Xvar on the ipal is 15mm and on the 21ds is 17mm. If price is the issue, a pair of the 21ds would definitely be a better bet. ~1200 is a bit much for the ipal

Looking forward to your measurements

Last edited by notnyt; 05-03-2019 at 03:45 PM.
notnyt is offline  
post #21 of 39 Old 05-03-2019, 03:47 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
notnyt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,197
Mentioned: 315 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3731 Post(s)
Liked: 3705
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

That is true, is there a way to rough guess the 70%BL like the other drivers? Was the DS tested in a sealed cab? I did not see it. The UM18 has 22mm the same way, right?
Xvar is their recommended max usable excursion pretty much.... Any of these B&C drivers are wasted in sealed cabs.
notnyt is offline  
post #22 of 39 Old 05-03-2019, 03:54 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 18,408
Mentioned: 134 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2387 Post(s)
Liked: 2351
I was thinking sealed to just compare to the Ipal, apples to apples, minus 6 dB dor duals.
notnyt likes this.

Audio Design Associates/Outlaw
Speakerpower SP1-4000
subs-Re audio XXX 18 IB(LT).
DIY speakers-mktheater-S10/S12s
MKtheater is offline  
post #23 of 39 Old 05-03-2019, 04:09 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
corradizo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: near Chicago
Posts: 3,415
Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1527 Post(s)
Liked: 1584
Hrmm. Can't remember what excursion I allowed when modeling my 21DS subs. I thought I was told 20mm was the max before the output isn't so clean. Is that right?
corradizo is online now  
post #24 of 39 Old 05-03-2019, 04:15 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ricci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Louisville KY
Posts: 5,478
Mentioned: 166 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 373 Post(s)
Liked: 881
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
Yeah, it's strange, the 21IPAL xmax is listed as 22mm, and the 21DS is 15mm. Yet Xvar on the ipal is 15mm and on the 21ds is 17mm. If price is the issue, a pair of the 21ds would definitely be a better bet. ~1200 is a bit much for the ipal

Looking forward to your measurements
I might ask Ben about it. Its pretty clear from using both drivers the ipal is cleaner further. It should be.

21ds is for sure an easier option on the wallet and as far as powering them.
notnyt likes this.
Ricci is offline  
post #25 of 39 Old 05-03-2019, 04:22 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ricci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Louisville KY
Posts: 5,478
Mentioned: 166 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 373 Post(s)
Liked: 881
Quote:
Originally Posted by corradizo View Post
Hrmm. Can't remember what excursion I allowed when modeling my 21DS subs. I thought I was told 20mm was the max before the output isn't so clean. Is that right?
It starts getting "dirty" a bit past the rated xmax. The good thing about these types of drivers is they are pretty forgiving and almost impossible to bottom out so they just get really distorted if you push em further but won't suffer damage.
Ricci is offline  
post #26 of 39 Old 05-03-2019, 04:39 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
notnyt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,197
Mentioned: 315 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3731 Post(s)
Liked: 3705
Most of this noise is the driver vibrating around. Couldn't hold it and film at the same time


Here's one in an enclosure, but not at max level or xmax.

filtor1 likes this.
notnyt is offline  
post #27 of 39 Old 05-03-2019, 05:48 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Samps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 2,733
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1224 Post(s)
Liked: 901
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
I was thinking sealed to just compare to the Ipal, apples to apples, minus 6 dB dor duals.
The dual iPals are using 5.5 cubic feet for two drivers. The DS will likely have 4.5 for a single. Can’t really compare them like that.
Samps is online now  
post #28 of 39 Old 05-03-2019, 06:07 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
BassThatHz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Northern Okan range (NW Cascades region)
Posts: 10,646
Mentioned: 222 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3682 Post(s)
Liked: 4181
The 2019 24 in red and green, IPAL in blue and pink.


Sealed are both 6cuft.
Ported are both 12hz in their optimal sized boxes.

I noticed that the 24 has more xmax and xmech than allowable PE, the IPAL has enough PE to exceed it's rated xmax in just about any box size or type. I also noticed is that neither are exceeding their xmech... even with given something excessive like 7kW of burst-power going to either...

As I already said: if you have limited space, the IPAL does really well. Otherwise, multiple cheaper cones will likely give you better results.

Now let's look at it from a price-perspective:
Here is $2400 worth of IPAL's, RBX's and PA-460's, with no bulk discounts factored in.

All ported at 20hz in their optimal boxes.
460's in green, RBX's in Blue, IPAL's in Red.

The price is really starting to hurt the IPAL's, but ONLY if you have the space for all those boxes for the cheaper drivers...
UM-18's would be slightly more expensive than the RBX's, and lacking a fair bit of mid-bass, but making up for it when tuning below 30hz in small spaces...

It's worth noting that the 460's are only at 67% power here, and the IPAL's are at max power.... and the RBX's are at about 85% power.

The IPAL have no thermal headroom in this configuration, they are being "stressed to the max" trying to produce this much bass. That's lack of total-cone-area for ya...

At the end of the day, it really depends on your budget, target frequency, and available space.

For horns... that's where things get tricky. I don't have that much free-time to model that!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	spl.png
Views:	145
Size:	20.6 KB
ID:	2562108   Click image for larger version

Name:	spl2.png
Views:	152
Size:	25.2 KB
ID:	2562120  

Last edited by BassThatHz; 05-03-2019 at 06:40 PM.
BassThatHz is offline  
post #29 of 39 Old 05-03-2019, 08:55 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
BassThatHz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Northern Okan range (NW Cascades region)
Posts: 10,646
Mentioned: 222 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3682 Post(s)
Liked: 4181
Now, stepping it up a notch for the ballers and high-rollers.
The money, power and space-time is no obstacle edition. The "if you have to ask" edition:


The 32 32's Edition... you don't even want to know!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	spl3.png
Views:	152
Size:	26.9 KB
ID:	2562148  
Chris Popovich likes this.
BassThatHz is offline  
post #30 of 39 Old 05-03-2019, 09:04 PM
Senior Member
 
Chris Popovich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 299
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 144 Post(s)
Liked: 131
Cone area is a wonderful thing.
Chris Popovich is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off