Is AVR noise floor an issue with high sensitivity speakers? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 3Likes
  • 1 Post By notnyt
  • 1 Post By BassThatHz
  • 1 Post By Squirrel!
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 13 Old 05-06-2019, 02:43 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
CrusherW9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 369
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 216 Post(s)
Liked: 132
Is AVR noise floor an issue with high sensitivity speakers?

I'm looking into buying an AVR and I was wondering if I need to be concerned with the noise floor on the amplified and line level AVR outs for high sensitivity speakers like those of DIYSG's offerings? I've read that the MiniDSP can be an issue with high efficiency speakers so I wasn't sure if I have to worry about that with AVRs?

"Becoming educated is more than just acquiring knowledge. It involves the ability to see the world in ways never before conceived."
CrusherW9 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 13 Old 05-06-2019, 02:46 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
notnyt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,440
Mentioned: 339 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3914 Post(s)
Liked: 3852
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrusherW9 View Post
I'm looking into buying an AVR and I was wondering if I need to be concerned with the noise floor on the amplified and line level AVR outs for high sensitivity speakers like those of DIYSG's offerings? I've read that the MiniDSP can be an issue with high efficiency speakers so I wasn't sure if I have to worry about that with AVRs?
Nope, most AVRs are nice and quiet. Really will depend on the AVR, though.
CrusherW9 likes this.
notnyt is offline  
post #3 of 13 Old 05-06-2019, 02:52 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
CrusherW9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 369
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 216 Post(s)
Liked: 132
When you say "most", are there any in particular to avoid or is it mainly just lower end stuff?

"Becoming educated is more than just acquiring knowledge. It involves the ability to see the world in ways never before conceived."
CrusherW9 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 13 Old 05-06-2019, 03:03 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
notnyt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,440
Mentioned: 339 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3914 Post(s)
Liked: 3852
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrusherW9 View Post
When you say "most", are there any in particular to avoid or is it mainly just lower end stuff?
Haven't really run into any that were that noisy. I say most because I'm sure there have to be some cheaper / low end ones that are just junk.
notnyt is offline  
post #5 of 13 Old 05-06-2019, 03:46 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
asarose247's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: DIY enabled in SoCal / OC
Posts: 4,675
Mentioned: 118 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1332 Post(s)
Liked: 1169
it depends. .
you will probably have more "floor" noise issues with the "household environment" /neighborhood / etc.

my LR is 'typical" at about 40-42 db, depending on time of day and traffic around me

but in my mancave, at the right times, it can be as low as 37
and that's with the HTPC running.
that's quiet

FTR it's a nvidia 1030 fanless 4K card

the Denon X5200 at now about 5 y.o. , nary a peep from it . .

DIY FAN Denon X4400 , ATI A 2000 for 7.4.6 SCATMOS Sammy 82" 4K/HDR
L/R: Fusion 15 V2 , C: 88 Special , SL/SR: 88 Special(V2) , RL/RR: F-3, TF/TR: Volt 6's TM: SLX, FH: F4Q4
SUBMAXIMUS V2, ,Submaximus V3,LOWARHORNCustom Dual Driver VBSS,2 x 6000DSP
asarose247 is online now  
post #6 of 13 Old 05-06-2019, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
CrusherW9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 369
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 216 Post(s)
Liked: 132
Thanks for the info, guys!

"Becoming educated is more than just acquiring knowledge. It involves the ability to see the world in ways never before conceived."
CrusherW9 is offline  
post #7 of 13 Old 05-06-2019, 04:20 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
PrimeTime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Lower California
Posts: 3,325
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 839 Post(s)
Liked: 545
An AVR will usually be quieter than any setup that runs DSP before the power amplifier, as with separates. The reason is simple: with all of the gain blocks (DSP and power amplifiers) contained within the AVR, the manufacturer can integrate (window) the voltage gains of each block in an optimal alignment that avoids excessive gain. Furthermore, with lower power output the absolute gain of the power stage in an AVR is usually less than an outboard power amplifier. As a general design proposition with amplifiers, less gain equals more feedback equals less noise (and distortion).

Furthermore, when DSP is involved, the dynamic range is reduced in better power amplifier stage designs. Linear amplifiers typically will have a higher signal-to-noise ratio than a DSP stage, although the gap has been closing. Eliminating any DSP from the signal chain will often result in lower noise, although AVRs have a good handle on the DSP integration. The difference may be difficult to discern with lower-sensitivity consumer loudspeakers.

Excessive gain with separates is when you have various outboard units that plug into your power amplifier, and you have to reduce the power amp's Volume or Gain control to attenuate its input signal -- which usually doesn't happen inside an AVR. This just pushes the input signal down closer to the noise floor of the system, reducing dynamic range.

My loudspeakers are over 100 dB/w/m, and with my Yamaha AVR I can't hear any hiss even with ears pressed against the grille. However, when using active electronic crossovers and HF compression drivers with sensitivities around 110 dB/w/m, noise that would otherwise be difficult to hear becomes audible. Of course, in a pro system, the listeners are rarely within eight feet of the speakers -- an important distinction.

Last edited by PrimeTime; 05-06-2019 at 04:31 PM.
PrimeTime is offline  
post #8 of 13 Old 05-06-2019, 05:34 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
BassThatHz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Northern Okan range (NW Cascades region)
Posts: 11,334
Mentioned: 256 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4016 Post(s)
Liked: 4533
The hiss in my system is almost non-existent. The biggest and only culprit is the FP's...
My 7705 and Motu's have vanishingly low noise. Neither are a AVR though...

If you have lots of components one thing that can help is using optical HDMI cables and optical usb cables, they can be had for under $100 if you search around. Just keep in mind that optical is signal-only, only usb hubs and HDMI ports on each side are powered in isolation.
18Hurts likes this.
BassThatHz is offline  
post #9 of 13 Old 05-06-2019, 11:39 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,428
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 553 Post(s)
Liked: 471
The only AVR I owned that generated the dreaded hiss was a midrange Yamaha AB class AVR.
Trimlock is offline  
post #10 of 13 Old 05-07-2019, 06:17 AM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 741
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 349 Post(s)
Liked: 491
INUKES used as outboard amps for mains in my situation did cause signal noise. I fixed it by pushing the avr to INCREASE gain, the avr does not have any audible signal noise...i think an earlier explanation covered why.
RoboAVS is offline  
post #11 of 13 Old 05-07-2019, 06:23 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Squirrel!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,865
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 867 Post(s)
Liked: 549
The noise floor is so ridiculously low in todays equipment, it doesn't really, & shouldn't, garner any consideration.
Chris Popovich likes this.

Main: Mitsubishi 73736|OTA|fireTV|Sony BDP-S1100|Denon AVR4311CI|MartinLogan Preface|Phantom|MartinLogan Encore TF|1-1000watt & 1-500watt DIY 12" Subs|2 Bass Shaker|APC H15 Power Conditioner|Harmony Hub|Sennheiser RS 160|SMSL B1 BT Rx|Linksys SE2500
MBR: Vizio VF550M|OTA|fireTV3|Sony BDP-S1100|Denon AVR-X1000|Chane A1rx-c|Phantom|Dayton SAT-BK|MartinLogan Dynamo 300|Belkin PF30|Harmony 550
Squirrel! is offline  
post #12 of 13 Old 05-07-2019, 07:10 AM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Hudsonville, MI
Posts: 573
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 247 Post(s)
Liked: 236
I have a bottom-line Denon and can't even make out a hiss on 90db speakers. That's all I got.

--
Denon X1300W/DIYSG Fusion 12 LCR/Volt-10 Rears/Micca M-8C Heights
2 @ VBSS End Tables - 2 More VBSS complete!
Epson 2030/DIY 110" AT Screen
Eosone RSF1000 for Enjoying Music
jevchance is online now  
post #13 of 13 Old 05-07-2019, 06:47 PM
Advanced Member
 
mobeer4don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 809
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 174 Post(s)
Liked: 157
My ears have been ringing and hissing since 1987 so noise floor really is a function of your ears and your listening environment...not just the equipment. Ground loops are the only problems I have been able to hear (and fix) in my system. Sometimes I ask my wife to confirm the system is silent though the non-directional nature of tinitus makes it possible to differentiate system noise from the cicadias in my head.

This has been your hearing protection PSA for the day
mobeer4don is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off