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post #1 of 14 Old 05-07-2019, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
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New House New Speaker setup

Hi All. I have been planning out a media room for a month or so now, and am heading towards buying some components soon. I welcome any thoughts you might have on the plans and questions I have below.

The room is about 13x19 with 8.5' ceilings, all lathe and plaster. I intend to sit about 8 feet from the front wall, and have 7.2.4 Atmos surround set up. I currently have Boston Acoustics speakers: 2xA26, 4xA25, and a subwoofer (don't remember the model). Anyway, I plan to upgrade to dual subs and 4 ceiling speakers for the Atmos. It will be powered by a Denon AVR at 12 WPC and one external 2 channel amp that I have yet to purchase.

Listening will be a mix of music and movies. Some TV as well, though I am not as concerned about sound quality with those; just nice to have.

Now the good stuff. I plan to get a pair of subwoofers, the SVS 1000 Ported variety, though I welcome any thoughts on how they would compare to home-built subs. I have a good degree of woodworking skills, so I am not at all worried about fabrication.

I plan to stick with the BA speakers for now and then upgrade the front stage next year. I had been thinking about the Klipsch Reference Premiere 600-series left right and center. Upon reading here I am now also thinking about doing the DIYSG HTM 8s. With that in mind I don't know what to do on ceiling speakers. Erich recommends the Volt series, but I am not sure about their dispersion pattern. Anyone using the Volt 6 or 8 for in-ceiling speakers?

I have attached a couple of renderings of my room-designs to date, for reference.

Please let me know what you think.
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post #2 of 14 Old 05-07-2019, 04:58 PM
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similarly , my space 19 x 14.5, 8' ceiling.
mlp 11' from TV, at 82" the biggest allowable wrt optimal HDR viewing dist. without going for a PJ
because the mlp in that ATMOS on ceiling array, a bit of work to move.

the corners are volt 6's before "upgrading" to the SCATMOS model (because I just could- that's why)

The 6's are aimed for the opposite seat and
I unhesitantly endorse them
the ATMOS demo disks and ATMOS movie releases tell me so, over and over again,
and delightfully so

going with the 45 degree suggestion (Sanjay helped when he came to visit one day in mid 2014),
on an 8' ceiling that came to a 7 foot square. it's geometry . .
the ceiling cloud is an afterthought, because, once again, i could,
does it significantly help in damping off-axis sound for more clarity wrt direct sound?
it depends

at 8.5' depending on esthetics and budget,
Volt 6s with some massaged / well thought out engineering for placement / angulation / coverage - will be a beautiful additionsonically and "pretty", too)
and separation for the bed layer, don't forget that important factor
you could be well set up

unless your budget might allow for the 8's
maybe a significant increase wrt ROI,
you may need to address room treatments to push it
and think of a budget for that factor, at least at an entry level
then go for it . .
How's the WAF factor?

HTH
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DIY FAN Denon X4400 , ATI A 2000 for 7.4.6 SCATMOS Sammy 82" 4K/HDR
L/R: Fusion 15 V2 , C: 88 Special , SL/SR: 88 Special(V2) , RL/RR: F-3, TF/TR: Volt 6's TM: SLX, FH: F4Q4
SUBMAXIMUS V2, ,Submaximus V3,LOWARHORNCustom Dual Driver VBSS,2 x 6000DSP
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post #3 of 14 Old 05-07-2019, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeruDog View Post
Now the good stuff. I plan to get a pair of subwoofers, the SVS 1000 Ported variety, though I welcome any thoughts on how they would compare to home-built subs. I have a good degree of woodworking skills, so I am not at all worried about fabrication.
For $1000 (maybe a bit over, the Behringer amps have gone up in price since the new model was introduced) you can do much better than a pair of the PB1000s. What are your size restrictions? Check out the Marty line, the Johnny sub as just a couple of examples.

ETA: If the subs are for a fair amount of music as well, look into the VBSS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeruDog
Upon reading here I am now also thinking about doing the DIYSG HTM 8s. With that in mind I don't know what to do on ceiling speakers. Erich recommends the Volt series, but I am not sure about their dispersion pattern. Anyone using the Volt 6 or 8 for in-ceiling speakers?
Good call on the HTM line, love ours. Having said that, at a recent get together the HTM-8s went head to head against the HT-8s, and it was very difficult to tell the difference. Something to consider if you're looking to save some $$.

Couldn't put a number on how many are using the Volts for surrounds/Atmos. MANY is an understatement. In boxes, IB, you name it, the Volts have done it. Also love our Volt-6s, wish I had the room for the 8s for a little more bass.
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post #4 of 14 Old 05-07-2019, 05:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post
similarly , my space 19 x 14.5, 8' ceiling.
mlp 11' from TV, at 82" the biggest allowable wrt optimal HDR viewing dist. without going for a PJ
because the mlp in that ATMOS on ceiling array, a bit of work to move.

the corners are volt 6's before "upgrading" to the SCATMOS model (because I just could- that's why)

The 6's are aimed for the opposite seat and
I unhesitantly endorse them
the ATMOS demo disks and ATMOS movie releases tell me so, over and over again,
and delightfully so

going with the 45 degree suggestion (Sanjay helped when he came to visit one day in mid 2014),
on an 8' ceiling that came to a 7 foot square. it's geometry . .
the ceiling cloud is an afterthought, because, once again, i could,
does it significantly help in damping off-axis sound for more clarity wrt direct sound?
it depends

at 8.5' depending on esthetics and budget,
Volt 6s with some massaged / well thought out engineering for placement / angulation / coverage - will be a beautiful additionsonically and "pretty", too)
and separation for the bed layer, don't forget that important factor
you could be well set up

unless your budget might allow for the 8's
maybe a significant increase wrt ROI,
you may need to address room treatments to push it
and think of a budget for that factor, at least at an entry level
then go for it . .
How's the WAF factor?

HTH
WAF factor is not a problem. Me factor is about as much, though. I have a craftsman house, ca. 1920, and an architectural background, so I want to maintain the aesthetic. That said, I have crafted several ways I can do built in ceilings with atmos and treatment.

I may go for the 8s in the end. I just like them better on paper. I wish there were some audiophile reviews of them, but alas, I may have to take the plunge in the dark.

Thanks for the input and the photos.
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post #5 of 14 Old 05-07-2019, 06:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smcmillan2 View Post
For $1000 (maybe a bit over, the Behringer amps have gone up in price since the new model was introduced) you can do much better than a pair of the PB1000s. What are your size restrictions? Check out the Marty line, the Johnny sub as just a couple of examples.

ETA: If the subs are for a fair amount of music as well, look into the VBSS.



Good call on the HTM line, love ours. Having said that, at a recent get together the HTM-8s went head to head against the HT-8s, and it was very difficult to tell the difference. Something to consider if you're looking to save some $$.

Couldn't put a number on how many are using the Volts for surrounds/Atmos. MANY is an understatement. In boxes, IB, you name it, the Volts have done it. Also love our Volt-6s, wish I had the room for the 8s for a little more bass.
I may be a little incapable on the internet, but I am having trouble finding the dimensions, driver reccomendations, and amplifier recommendations for Marty subs. I see a comparison of responses, and GSG audio flat packs, but that is it. Anyway, I don't want to have anything that will visually overpower the room, but as mentioned in another post, if the subs wind up being end tables (especially since I will likely finish them that way anyhow) then it may be okay. From the GSG "shopping list" it looks like dual Martys (even cubes) would be more like $1500 or $1800, once you add in drivers and amplifier (6000). That said, for a 2000 cuft room, would one need 6000, or could you get away with less?

In the end, I might upgrade to the SVS ported version as my baseline, so perhaps dual martys would be an option. Looking at the on-paper comparisons, I don't see what I would gain with them. Are they overkill? I am undecided and happy that I am having this debate in advance of laying down any cash.

Thanks for all the input. It is much appreciated, since I lean toward DIY on most things and especially anything woodworking-related.
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post #6 of 14 Old 05-07-2019, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeruDog View Post
I may be a little incapable on the internet, but I am having trouble finding the dimensions, driver reccomendations, and amplifier recommendations for Marty subs. I see a comparison of responses, and GSG audio flat packs, but that is it. Anyway, I don't want to have anything that will visually overpower the room, but as mentioned in another post, if the subs wind up being end tables (especially since I will likely finish them that way anyhow) then it may be okay. From the GSG "shopping list" it looks like dual Martys (even cubes) would be more like $1500 or $1800, once you add in drivers and amplifier (6000). That said, for a 2000 cuft room, would one need 6000, or could you get away with less?
If you're buying flat packs (it didn't sound like that was your intent) and want duals then yes, it would be more. See https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...tysub-faq.html for the Marty line (just the name given to a slot-ported series of subs that make efficient use of the handi panels found at most big box lumber/hardware stores).

Lots of builds around here turning subs into furniture (or is it vice-versa?). It's all about the modelling, that will tell you if the design you envision works or not. If you're serious about the DIY sub possibility I suggest trying out WinISD. A bit of a learning curve, but well worth it in the end if you want to build your own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeruDog
In the end, I might upgrade to the SVS ported version as my baseline, so perhaps dual martys would be an option. Looking at the on-paper comparisons, I don't see what I would gain with them. Are they overkill? I am undecided and happy that I am having this debate in advance of laying down any cash.

Thanks for all the input. It is much appreciated, since I lean toward DIY on most things and especially anything woodworking-related.
What sub(s) do you currently have? What are you hoping to gain more of by going with the dual PB1000s?

What you would gain really depends on what you're looking for.
How loud do you typically listen?
Are you after ULF, chest kick, both?
How big a basshead are you?
You mentioned both movies and music, what is that ratio?

This is the DIY section, nothing - and I mean NOTHING - is too much around here. You'll find people recommending starting with 4 18" subs, and working up from there.

I personally don't know of anyone that has gone back to retail subs after building even the most modest DIY sub. If you have the woodworking skills you can make it into anything you want, which is a huge plus, and use the best components to get the most out of it. SVS makes fine subs, but if it's clean, deep output that you're after, DIY is the way to go. But, it can turn into the rabbit hole too. Fair warning there.

If the Marty subs seem a bit large then check out the VSS thread. Multiple tuning options, smaller design, etc. Mine works great for both movies and music.
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post #7 of 14 Old 05-08-2019, 03:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smcmillan2 View Post
What sub(s) do you currently have? What are you hoping to gain more of by going with the dual PB1000s?
Currently I only have a Boston Acoustics 10" sub, so anything is a step up. What I want to achieve is clean bass for multiple seating areas in the room

Quote:
Originally Posted by smcmillan2 View Post
What you would gain really depends on what you're looking for.
How loud do you typically listen?
Are you after ULF, chest kick, both?
How big a basshead are you?
I am not much of a basshead, and rarely listen loud. I listen louder than my wife prefers but still it does not shake the room. I am not sure on ULF and chest kick … never really experienced it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smcmillan2 View Post
You mentioned both movies and music, what is that ratio?
Ratio is about 50/50. More movies sometimes, and then ignore movies for a while. Will be watching some TV as well, and while I would normally say that I care less about audio quality in TV, I am still waiting to have my system in place before I watch Game of Thrones. For music, I listen to Rock primarily, and some current Alternative. Every time I upgrade audio - build a car system, new headphones, upgraded speakers - I notice new nuances to music. I look forward to my planned upgrades.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smcmillan2 View Post
If the Marty subs seem a bit large then check out the VSS thread. Multiple tuning options, smaller design, etc. Mine works great for both movies and music.
Thanks! I will check out VBSS and WinISD and see where that goes. So far I have only built sealed subwoofers so tuning a port will be new. Also, it will be interesting to design them in to end tables or some other kind of furniture, though I am not sure how pine or oak will tune differently from MDF.
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post #8 of 14 Old 05-08-2019, 05:29 AM
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subs as furniture

check out @squiers007
from a few years ago he did a marty cube side table, iirc
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post #9 of 14 Old 05-08-2019, 05:33 AM
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Another good example of subs as furniture - https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...l#post58004544
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post #10 of 14 Old 05-09-2019, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeruDog View Post
I may be a little incapable on the internet, but I am having trouble finding the dimensions, driver reccomendations, and amplifier recommendations for Marty subs.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...l#post57121996


^ Link to the MartySub cut sheets.


Someone needs to get that on the first page of the FAQ... hint hint
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post #11 of 14 Old 05-09-2019, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeruDog View Post
Currently I only have a Boston Acoustics 10" sub, so anything is a step up. What I want to achieve is clean bass for multiple seating areas in the room

I am not much of a basshead, and rarely listen loud. I listen louder than my wife prefers but still it does not shake the room. I am not sure on ULF and chest kick … never really experienced it.

Methinks you just haven't entered the rabbit hole... you will be (a basshead), you will be...


Come to the Dark Side, the water is fine... Muahahahahahaha! Welcome to the DIY section!
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post #12 of 14 Old 05-09-2019, 11:40 AM
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My VBSS end tables run off a single iNuke 1000DSP (NX1000D), FWIW.

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post #13 of 14 Old 05-09-2019, 11:48 AM - Thread Starter
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My VBSS end tables run off a single iNuke 1000DSP (NX1000D), FWIW.

What drivers did you use, and how do you feel the bass is doing with music and movies? Do you have a mid-bass driver to support, or do these get crossed straight over to your mains?

Thanks. I find these inspirational and will think about something similar, in a craftsman style to match the room.
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post #14 of 14 Old 05-09-2019, 11:59 AM
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They are PA-460s per the standard VBSS configuration (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...gn-thread.html).

In fact, everything about the box pictured is standard VBSS. I slapped on faux drawer fronts, a wood top, and feet. It was super easy and I like how it turned out.

The bass is loud and effortless, I really like it a lot. I'm not a bass head so it suits me just fine. I do think the down-firing dampens them a bit. To me it manifests as being able to feel it more than I can hear it, which is a neat effect for movies. Plenty of midbass for me, but a lot of that is also coming out of my mains as my sub XO is set at 80 on the receiver.

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