Eminence with a new high performance 21"? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 307 Old 08-29-2019, 01:03 AM
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Eminence is in between the sw152 and the Ipal. 152 has less xmax slightly lower Le and Ipal has a stronger motor.

Crazy the Ipal and Eminence show same price for you there. With Lavoce now the sw152 will be overlooked even more .

B&C has stiff competition and pricing now
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post #32 of 307 Old 08-29-2019, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Gorilla Killa View Post

B&C has stiff competition and pricing now

Great news for us plebs!
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post #33 of 307 Old 08-29-2019, 08:25 AM
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This eminence goes toe to toe with the LMS 5400 for less money. If you subtract 6 dB from the Ipal these are very close, again, for less money.
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post #34 of 307 Old 08-29-2019, 11:00 AM
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I've already published the sealed box test and parameter testing on this driver a few months back. It's a legit beast of a pro woofer. Really it's only mainstream competitor is the 21Ipal. (Maybe the 21NTLW5000 if it ever becomes available. )These have a much easier impedance to deal with. No issues with running a pair off of a cheap NX6000.

EDIT: $750 is a good price for this driver. I'm surprised it's that low honestly.

Last edited by Ricci; 08-29-2019 at 11:21 AM.
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post #35 of 307 Old 08-29-2019, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post
I've already published the sealed box test and parameter testing on this driver a few months back. It's a legit beast of a pro woofer. Really it's only mainstream competitor is the 21Ipal. (Maybe the 21NTLW5000 if it ever becomes available. )These have a much easier impedance to deal with. No issues with running a pair off of a cheap NX6000.

EDIT: $750 is a good price for this driver. I'm surprised it's that low honestly.
Which is why I bothered Al at US Speaker every couple weeks. Glad Eminence decided to run what they had although makes me wonder how far out the rest of the baskets are. Running these 2 off a Sp4000.

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post #36 of 307 Old 08-29-2019, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post
So when I simulated the SW152 verse this driver it looks to be almost identical response shape in 150L sealed. I just took the drivers to Xmax at 20hz. The Eminence has a bit more spl due to the higher Xmax. But you can push the SW152 a bit further than its Xmax also. And the Ipal and this Eminence 21 are about the same price for me here in OZ.
No reason to simulate....both drivers had real tests performed on data-bass. The Eminence driver handily trumps the B&C by nearly 2 to 1, not just a bit.
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post #37 of 307 Old 08-29-2019, 05:33 PM
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what would be the best use of these things. Horn?

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post #38 of 307 Old 08-29-2019, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
No reason to simulate....both drivers had real tests performed on data-bass. The Eminence driver handily trumps the B&C by nearly 2 to 1, not just a bit.
I simulate everything and I could not find a way to see the comparison between the 2 on Ricci's forum. If your saying the Eminence is 3db louder at every frequency then thats great. I just dont see it yet. I was looking at measure responses from the DB site and only saw 118db sweeps and the other had higher sweeps measured.

But We will see. As I said the Eminence is the same price as the Ipal for me. Simply because I can get the BC and Beyma products for exactly the same price in USD but in Aud here in OZ. Where as the Eminence I have to ship from the US and pay exchange rates and custom fees. Hence why the Ipal is the same cost. SI 24's are about 2000 each for me.
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post #39 of 307 Old 08-29-2019, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post
I simulate everything and I could not find a way to see the comparison between the 2 on Ricci's forum. If your saying the Eminence is 3db louder at every frequency then thats great. I just dont see it yet. I was looking at measure responses from the DB site and only saw 118db sweeps and the other had higher sweeps measured.

But We will see. As I said the Eminence is the same price as the Ipal for me. Simply because I can get the BC and Beyma products for exactly the same price in USD but in Aud here in OZ. Where as the Eminence I have to ship from the US and pay exchange rates and custom fees. Hence why the Ipal is the same cost. SI 24's are about 2000 each for me.
Sorry, I wasn't clear...the Eminence was 5-6dB ahead at most frequencies compared to the SW152, not 3. I'll try to post a couple of shots.



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post #40 of 307 Old 08-29-2019, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
..the Eminence was 5-6dB ahead at most frequencies compared to the SW152, not 3
I found it also. Wow. The Eminence beats out the HST at 16hz sealed. And it beats out a pair of SW152's sealed. Although Im not sure how much db's were lost being it was a D.O. configuration. Suddenly the cost is not that bad. SI 18's are even more expensive then the Emnence for me with the crazy shipping weight. This would be much easier on the wallet.

Wish thy made an 18"version also. Something like the 5100 would be nice.
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post #41 of 307 Old 08-29-2019, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
No reason to simulate....both drivers had real tests performed on data-bass.
That's all good and well, but all speakers weren't designed for a 6ft box. Or whatever it is that he tests all the speakers in.

Nothing wrong with modeling speakers for your own application.
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post #42 of 307 Old 08-30-2019, 03:04 AM
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That's all good and well, but all speakers weren't designed for a 6ft box. Or whatever it is that he tests all the speakers in.

Nothing wrong with modeling speakers for your own application.
He was simulating for the same size box that Ricci tested the drivers in...and the sims were way off. So in this case, there was something wrong with modeling...namely that he was getting a false picture of their capabilities. If someone is interested in the Eminence driver, its probably good to know that it is 5-6 dB ahead, and not almost the same as modeling showed.
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post #43 of 307 Old 08-30-2019, 06:43 AM
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Here is my model of the eminence vs the Ipal, both with max power and reaching xmax at 10hz. Red is the eminence.

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post #44 of 307 Old 08-30-2019, 07:47 AM
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Currently have a um18 in a mini Marty running off Inuke 6000. I can make the driver work in my current box would it be worth the upgrade. The Um has good output 20-40hz but lacking after that.
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post #45 of 307 Old 08-30-2019, 08:39 AM
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Would guys really be using this sub in a sealed box?

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post #46 of 307 Old 08-30-2019, 08:43 AM
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Would guys really be using this sub in a sealed box?
I would, It has the same spl as the LMS5400.

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post #47 of 307 Old 08-30-2019, 08:47 AM
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Would guys really be using this sub in a sealed box?

Not me. Port velocity has gone to crap. This box should be modified to deal with the added displacement. This is in BMD plywood version.


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post #48 of 307 Old 08-30-2019, 08:53 AM
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I'm not 100% sure what net volume would work best on these for ported but I might do some experimenting. I have a really big ported enclosure to test them in so I'll buy one just to see how it goes.
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post #49 of 307 Old 08-30-2019, 08:55 AM
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I really like LLT and sealed for the smoother response, Horns always needed lots of dsp to be smooth in my room. I like horns, I owned 8 of them, but sealed, IB with more woofs is better for me. Just because this driver has more midbass does not mean it can't be sealed. Hell, two of them would give me 120+ dB at 10hz in my room sealed.

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post #50 of 307 Old 08-30-2019, 09:26 AM
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I'm running them in a slightly larger version of the X21, just under 13 cubes. He runs Ipals in his so should work fine
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post #51 of 307 Old 08-30-2019, 09:50 AM
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Now Eminence needs to give B&C a competitor in their 18" TBX/TBW/RBX lines
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post #52 of 307 Old 08-31-2019, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
Would guys really be using this sub in a sealed box?
I think people see Ricci testing these all the PA 21's in sealed boxes and assume that's automatically a good alignment for them.

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Just because this driver has more midbass does not mean it can't be sealed. Hell, two of them would give me 120+ dB at 10hz in my room sealed.
Your room is a outlier and most people are better off tuning higher and sucking up the extra spl at tune

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post #53 of 307 Old 08-31-2019, 01:20 PM
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This eminence goes toe to toe with the LMS 5400 for less money. If you subtract 6 dB from the Ipal these are very close, again, for less money.
To date, I haven't seen any single driver match the low distortion of the LMS ultra. Did you see distortion results for the Eminence 21 or are you talking about modeled SPL? I do show them pretty even in that respect.

EDIT: The SI 24" did great for distortion in a sealed alignment (large)

I'm planning on using the Eminence 21 for a smaller living room music-only system. I paid $750 each for the TC's on the last production run on close-out. How much is the Eminence? Advantages of the Eminence are that it's a solid company, not likely to be damaged by over-excursion, availability, works in a smallish box, lots of motor power vs MMS, and hopefully less weight due to neo motors. A lot to like.

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post #54 of 307 Old 08-31-2019, 02:03 PM
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To date, I haven't seen any single driver match the low distortion of the LMS ultra. Did you see distortion results for the Eminence 21 or are you talking about modeled SPL? I do show them pretty even in that respect.



EDIT: The SI 24" did great for distortion in a sealed alignment (large)



I'm planning on using the Eminence 21 for a smaller living room music-only system. I paid $750 each for the TC's on the last production run on close-out. How much is the Eminence? Advantages of the Eminence are that it's a solid company, not likely to be damaged by over-excursion, availability, works in a smallish box, lots of motor power vs MMS, and hopefully less weight due to neo motors. A lot to like.


Ricci has the distortion at the bottom

https://data-bass.com/#/systems/5d0b...82ae?_k=lvld0z


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post #55 of 307 Old 08-31-2019, 02:23 PM
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Ricci has the distortion at the bottom

https://data-bass.com/#/systems/5d0b...82ae?_k=lvld0z


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Thanks. I didn't see that he tested it in a box.

It has 80% distortion @ 20hz at 120db. The TC is 13% at 20hz @ 120db. Linearity is strong
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post #56 of 307 Old 08-31-2019, 04:25 PM
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Thanks. I didn't see that he tested it in a box.

It has 80% distortion @ 20hz at 120db. The TC is 13% at 20hz @ 120db. Linearity is strong
True, but the Eminence wasn't made for ULF quite like the TC was. I think in a bigger box that most here use for the other pro 21" drivers it'd have respectable distortion.

The distortion other wise is pretty incredible for a $750 driver.
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post #57 of 307 Old 08-31-2019, 06:21 PM
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Nothing tested has the same low distortion as the 5400(ULF), however, in a room that ULF and room gain makes very low distrotion anyways. The sealed eminence is as good as many and shows they rate x-max conservatively compared to the big hitters. I would not buy this 21 and tune up high, what a waste, you can buy multiple pro 18s for cheap for midbass duties.
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post #58 of 307 Old 08-31-2019, 06:34 PM
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To be fair you can buy multiple pro 18’s and tune low as well. It’s just more conventional to utilize the larger 21” drivers.

I think they rated the xmax for the coil in the gap and not at 70% bl, kind of like how Dayton does their’s.


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post #59 of 307 Old 08-31-2019, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinMonster View Post
Thanks. I didn't see that he tested it in a box.

It has 80% distortion @ 20hz at 120db. The TC is 13% at 20hz @ 120db. Linearity is strong
If you look at CEA-2010 max burst(i.e., with low distortion), the LMS5400 is only 1-2 db ahead of the Eminence 21 down in the lowest frequencies below 30 Hz. From there up, the 21 runs circles around the LMS in distortion and output.

Ignoring distortion altogether, the Eminence 21 actually has more burst output even below 20 Hz.

The LMS is a great driver, but its *barely* better than the Eminence 21 in a very narrow band.
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post #60 of 307 Old 08-31-2019, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

Ignoring distortion altogether, the Eminence 21 actually has more burst output even below 20 Hz.

The LMS is a great driver, but its *barely* better than the Eminence 21 in a very narrow band.
Ignoring distortion? It's at 100% distortion just under 20hz at 120db and you think that's usable burst output? If you're using the Eminence in a ported enclosure on music I'd say you are right. If you're looking at 10-15hz infrasonics on movies with 1/6th the distortion, the TC is a lot more than barely better. It's a different application. I'm planning on using the Eminence myself for a music system. On my home theater system, it's a step down.
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