Eminence with a new high performance 21"? - Page 9 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #241 of 307 Old 09-27-2019, 05:25 PM
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Yes, he seemed a little surprised Sweetwater showed stock but couldn't tell me why mine haven't. He mentioned that
they changed a few things after getting the package back from him but you would think after putting everything on hold for 10 days you would push them out the door

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post #242 of 307 Old 09-27-2019, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Gorilla Killa View Post
According to Al, they ran 20 and he was getting "most" of them.

Anybody who ordered mind posting if they received a ship notice or still holding and where they ordered from.
I got notice today that one of mine shipped from Sweetwater.
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post #243 of 307 Old 09-28-2019, 10:37 AM
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Eminence with a new high performance 21"?

I have a plan he he he he. With the constant nudge from @hd0823 to be interested in this new 21” driver, and the modeling help from @eng-399 , I’m gonna get 2 of these and replace 2 of my hst’s with them. In my boxes, the eminence keeps up with the hst down low, and handily bests it above 20hz. If they are sweet and I love them, I’ll get 2 or 4 more, and have them replace all 6 of my hst 18’s. For now my nearfield will stay the ds4’s that I love. Having 8 channels of power from my clones for sub duty is fun, I always find myself wondering what drivers could beat my current situation.
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post #244 of 307 Old 09-28-2019, 11:32 AM
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@Jk7.2 Super clean set up! Ever consider black ceiling? Also, what is the net volume and tune of your HST cabs?
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post #245 of 307 Old 09-28-2019, 11:34 AM
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Eminence with a new high performance 21"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post
@Jk7.2 Super clean set up! Ever consider black ceiling?


Thanks. It’s not usually that cluttered. Those extra speakers were setup for a gtg. But yes. The 1st row of ceiling tiles are wrapped with black velvet. I have the material for the next two rows as well, but haven’t gotten around to it.
The cabs are 10cf net, and 17 hz tune. This is what 4 eminence looks like.
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post #246 of 307 Old 09-28-2019, 11:42 AM
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Awesome and thanks. I’m gonna be thoroughly revamping my LFE set up as well.
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post #247 of 307 Old 09-28-2019, 12:14 PM
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Looking forward to seeing Jk72s new setup....
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post #248 of 307 Old 09-28-2019, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig S King View Post
Looking forward to seeing Jk72s new setup....


I am too. I’m nervous though. I love the hst’s. I just can’t ever get the memories of hearing Jeremy and Mikes systems. Those 21’s are awesome. Huge cone area.
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post #249 of 307 Old 09-28-2019, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Jk7.2 View Post
I am too. I’m nervous though. I love the hst’s. I just can’t ever get the memories of hearing Jeremy and Mikes systems. Those 21’s are awesome. Huge cone area.


Can’t wait to hear your room once the 21’s are in there! It’s going to be loud!
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post #250 of 307 Old 09-28-2019, 04:10 PM
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Can’t wait to hear your room once the 21’s are in there! It’s going to be loud!


I just hope the midbass doesn’t overpower the low end. Well, I guess that’s what EQ is for. I have one more channel on the 10x10 I can eq these two 21’s on.
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post #251 of 307 Old 09-28-2019, 04:14 PM
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I think the eminence will have more low end but because it has so much more midbass it won’t seem it until the response is matched.

Building the room, speakers, and subs.
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post #252 of 307 Old 09-28-2019, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jk7.2 View Post
I have a plan he he he he. With the constant nudge from @hd0823 to be interested in this new 21” driver, and the modeling help from @eng-399 , I’m gonna get 2 of these and replace 2 of my hst’s with them. In my boxes, the eminence keeps up with the hst down low, and handily bests it above 20hz. If they are sweet and I love them, I’ll get 2 or 4 more, and have them replace all 6 of my hst 18’s. For now my nearfield will stay the ds4’s that I love. Having 8 channels of power from my clones for sub duty is fun, I always find myself wondering what drivers could beat my current situation.
Man as I keep saying I really think this is the right move and once you hear the 2 I guarentee your buying 4 more. I'm still debating switching the bc21ds115 to the eminence.

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post #253 of 307 Old 09-28-2019, 05:38 PM
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Certainly will be a different experience, inductance robbing the mid bass on the HST

NSW Red is Lossy



HST Red is Lossy

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post #254 of 307 Old 09-29-2019, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla Killa View Post
Certainly will be a different experience, inductance robbing the mid bass on the HST

Does it matter after eqing to same response?

Noah
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post #255 of 307 Old 09-29-2019, 10:57 AM
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Does it matter after eqing to same response?


I’m not sure pumping more power into mid bass to compete with the pro 21’s is a good idea. Sounds like a great way to melt the voice coil.


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post #256 of 307 Old 09-29-2019, 11:27 AM
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The HST can hit 123+ dB in the midbass, two near 130 dB, unless he needs over 130 dB of midbass he is not lacking. The quad HST in his room can hit 135-136 dB, so it will be the sound differences not max spl. Of course I would only compare sound differences in the blind so I have no bias.
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post #257 of 307 Old 09-29-2019, 11:50 AM
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Eminence with a new high performance 21"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
The HST can hit 123+ dB in the midbass, two near 130 dB, unless he needs over 130 dB of midbass he is not lacking. The quad HST in his room can hit 135-136 dB, so it will be the sound differences not max spl. Of course I would only compare sound differences in the blind so I have no bias.


That’s the thing with how subs model compared to actual results. Unless I’m doing something wrong, all of my hst’s together (6) won’t hit 130db. I see these 21’s, with their cone area and efficiency and Xmas and I believe they will get me there more easily. I have the power on tap now, so it’s down to the driver and eq.
My goal is to match the hst in the low end, and give me more 30-80 hz, then my mains are on dsp too, with 1350 watts on tap each, so if I really knew what I was doing, I should be able to put together an impressive system.

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post #258 of 307 Old 09-29-2019, 12:49 PM
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The eminence will give you more of both, an upgrade! I wonder why you can't hit 130 dB? Midbass? Everywhere? How far are you from the subs? How big is the room? Having a smaller cubic foot room leaves so many options open. Every room is different though.

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post #259 of 307 Old 09-29-2019, 12:58 PM
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NSW black dotted HST in Blue. Inductance related and at that voltage you aren't eqing your way out of it. At 45 hz the NSW pulls away, the last vert line is 100hz


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post #260 of 307 Old 09-29-2019, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hd0823 View Post
Man as I keep saying I really think this is the right move and once you hear the 2 I guarentee your buying 4 more. I'm still debating switching the bc21ds115 to the eminence.

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post #261 of 307 Old 09-30-2019, 04:25 PM
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I received my second eminence driver today. Packaging is wayyyyyy nicer. It’s actually Triple boxed. First two boxes are standard with two banding around them. Inner (third box) is like a hut. That ensures the driver can’t move around at all. Definitely much improved. Outer box even has corner pieces to help protect it from damage. Personally I’m satisfied.


PS I got home from work pulled out the lavoce driver and at that moment UPS pulled in. Might be a record for putting in a new driver. Within 10 minutes of having the driver at my door it was installed and playing music with my other one. Hopefully some standard volume break in over the week should have it ready to measure by weekend and have the integration complete!


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post #262 of 307 Old 09-30-2019, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by superkyle View Post
I received my second eminence driver today. Packaging is wayyyyyy nicer. It’s actually Triple boxed. First two boxes are standard with two banding around them. Inner (third box) is like a hut. That ensures the driver can’t move around at all. Definitely much improved. Outer box even has corner pieces to help protect it from damage. Personally I’m satisfied.


PS I got home from work pulled out the lavoce driver and at that moment UPS pulled in. Might be a record for putting in a new driver. Within 10 minutes of having the driver at my door it was installed and playing music with my other one. Hopefully some standard volume break in over the week should have it ready to measure by weekend and have the integration complete!


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run it at high excursion below tune for about 20-30 seconds, break in done.
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post #263 of 307 Old 09-30-2019, 06:09 PM
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run it at high excursion below tune for about 20-30 seconds, break in done.

I’m not typically one that believes in the need for breaking in speakers as I think most of it is done in testing at the factories. The reason I said that was more or less bc of time and the fact that these drivers may very well be the stiffest I have ever experienced. I haven’t compared the driver I have had for a couple weeks to see if it softened up but I almost believe it had to with how stiff these are.

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post #264 of 307 Old 09-30-2019, 06:13 PM
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I’m not typically one that believes in the need for breaking in speakers as I think most of it is done in testing at the factories. The reason I said that was more or less bc of time and the fact that these drivers may very well be the stiffest I have ever experienced. I haven’t compared the driver I have had for a couple weeks to see if it softened up but I almost believe it had to with how stiff these are.
It's a thing, especially with high excursion subs. If you think all units are "tested" at the factory, that's not the case. All you need to do to break in the suspension bits that are stiff are to run it at high excursion for like 20-30 seconds. That will take care of 95% of the initial break in.

I've measured it with new 21" B&C drivers, fs drops a few hz.
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post #265 of 307 Old 09-30-2019, 06:20 PM
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It's a thing, especially with high excursion subs. If you think all units are "tested" at the factory, that's not the case. All you need to do to break in the suspension bits that are stiff are to run it at high excursion for like 20-30 seconds. That will take care of 95% of the initial break in.



I've measured it with new 21" B&C drivers, fs drops a few hz.


Very interesting. I’ve read on it here or there but never found anyone that was able to show a measurable difference. Thank you for the info that’s good to know for sure. As far as tested I kinda assumed they would be tested to some capacity. Maybe just hooked up to ensure movement in free air works as expected but with high volume manufacturing I imagine that’s not the case for sure.




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post #266 of 307 Old 09-30-2019, 06:39 PM
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Very interesting. I’ve read on it here or there but never found anyone that was able to show a measurable difference. Thank you for the info that’s good to know for sure. As far as tested I kinda assumed they would be tested to some capacity. Maybe just hooked up to ensure movement in free air works as expected but with high volume manufacturing I imagine that’s not the case for sure.


This was an impedance sweep of the 21ds115-4 in a vented enclosure (16-17 hz tune) before and after about 30 seconds of max excursion free air at low frequencies (10hz iirc).

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post #267 of 307 Old 09-30-2019, 06:49 PM
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This was an impedance sweep of the 21ds115-4 in a vented enclosure (16-17 hz tune) before and after about 30 seconds of max excursion free air at low frequencies (10hz iirc).





Wow nice! I’m putting this in my saved posts. I’m very data driven so it’s nice to have visual representation of the differences


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post #268 of 307 Old 10-01-2019, 02:48 PM
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Apparently I missed the boat, maybe next week

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post #269 of 307 Old 10-01-2019, 04:37 PM
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Me too but Al hasn’t messaged me back.


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post #270 of 307 Old 10-01-2019, 04:42 PM
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Me too but Al hasn’t messaged me back.


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They will go out next week, he did mention someone else was getting their order so I would guess that would be you.
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