Originally Posted by MKtheater
Because IMHO when done correctly, matching output, the lower extending full bandwidth systems always sound better in my room.
So, extension is the marker here. What's the use of extension below 20Hz, i.e. where or how does it make a sonic difference for the better - for movies mostly, or music also?
The sound of the horn that makes them special is the lower distortion it has when kept in check. You could always over drive anything.
"Kept in check" - like, within "safe" operational SPL-range? With, say, two DTS-10's in a moderately sized room headroom should be substantial - depending of course on one's need for SPL. Still I gather you'd have to hit them hard to come anywhere near their limits, and if anything horns strike me as the topology with the benefits in regards to sensitivity and overall output compared to direct radiating solutions - certainly on a driver to driver basis, and their count.
A key aspect with horn subs and what makes them special to my mind has to do with them being horns, in that it acts as an acoustical transformer between the driver cone and the air to which it loads. This makes the bass sound different compared to a direct radiating sub, and is what I really cherish here.
My point was if money is an issue and not space, a horn is awesome. If money is not an issue you can fill that giant horn with many drivers and get full bandwidth and even more output. Yes, much more expensive.
Indeed, more expensive, and more (i.e.: "full") bandwidth. But how do they compare sonically within the frequency range they do share, when kept in check?
The DTS-10 has better extension than the TH-50 so I would rather have that. I had 4 cinema 20s across the front wall at one time as well.
The DTS-10 goes deeper, yes, but it also has a limited upper band performance (and resonance) because of its lower tuning frequency - that's what you pay for here - which is going to affect the performance of its cleaner, lower operating range, and of course dictate of lower XO. While the DTS-10 goes deeper than the TH-50 I could easily imagine the latter actually sounding better from 20Hz on up, where most musical information resides, as well as the soundtracks for movies although much deeper frequencies are thrown into the mix here.
Originally Posted by notnyt
When properly sized, compression will be a trivial issue. Woofers also compress at higher outputs. Just because an undersized port compresses isn't a reason to not use a ported enclosure.
With the SPL-rate going here port compression is more a given than not (only amplified with more extension), unless a multitude of subs with large diameter drivers is used (which is costly and space consuming) - like in your case. But again, that's hardly representative. You're picking your own setup as an example for the best scenario - and one admirable for that - just like you're picking the most pronounced example for horn resonance below, when in fact it's hardly representative either.
Here's a DTS-10 for example. You can see the ringing at 55hz. Huge resonance.
Which goes to show: one example of a tapped with one of the deepest tuning frequencies out there with a limited upper band to follow. Of course, if extension anywhere near 10Hz is sought for then this is bound to happen with a tapped horn, not that the resonance displayed is necessarily a characteristic given for any tapped horn design with a similar low tuning fs. Resonances with horns can be moved out of sonic reach at the expense of extension, but it seems this is the trait few are willing to sacrifice here.
You misread, my distortion remarks were in regards to sealed units. I said " Sealed has higher excursion and thus higher distortion "
Got it, thanks.
Harmonics outside of the passband are filtered. If one lands on a resonance, then it's a different story.
I fail to see the relevance here, but that likely lands on my limited tech skill.
You'd wager incorrectly. See the sims I posted above comparing to a horn with the LMS 5400 in them.
Must've missed them.
I've had horns in my space before, have built bunches of them as well. I prefer ported. I'm not budget limited so I can just use more woofers in the same space that horns would take up and extended bandwidth at similar output levels. Also flat response without EQ from a horn in room? Not likely.
As inquired earlier in my reply to
, how do you find the horn subs to sonically differ from your current ported solution? Does your dismissal of flat response of horns without EQ rest with the experience of the DTS-10 only, or other alternatives as well? A higher tuning frequency would make a noticeable difference via horns, with any EQ to be used sparingly. Of course, I take it all comes down to extension to somewhere around 10Hz, a reach that would see horns fail on many accounts.