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-   -   Dayton Audio RSS460HO-4 in VBSS cab? (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/3067562-dayton-audio-rss460ho-4-vbss-cab.html)

jvphotog 05-14-2019 03:15 PM

Dayton Audio RSS460HO-4 in VBSS cab?
 
Hi all, I have a VBSS type build with the typical Dayton PA460-8 in it, powered by a Dayton Audio SPA500DSP. The cab is 35 x 21.5 x 21.5, and tuned to 20hz. The box calculator I used says its 7.66 ft3, with a net internal volume of 6.66 ft3. The PA speaker is 8ohm so I'm only using 250ish watts to push it right now. What would putting a Dayton Audio RSS460HO-4 in it do for me?

Right now I only have the one sub but Im also building a 12" or 15" sub for the front of the room. This new sub will only have a 250watt plate amp but it can also be ported and fairly large if I need it to be. Not quite as big as the VBSS* Room is 15x16x8ish.


Thank you!

smcmillan2 05-14-2019 03:59 PM

In a straight model (no filters) you would lose 4 - 5dB from ~35Hz and up, but gain 2 - 3dB from 35 to ~18Hz replacing the PA460 with the RSS460HO. That is assuming 250w into the PA currently, and 400w into the RSS460.

Wouldn't know where port velocity/1st port resonance hits without port dimensions. Obviously the RSS has more xmax, but a HPF would still be needed as well.

jvphotog 05-14-2019 05:05 PM

Wow thank you. Makes me wonder if it would even be worth the cost. The smaller 12" or 15" could help fill in the loss at 35 and up.
Why 400w and not 500w into the RSS460? Are the 500DSP amps under powered? Right now I have my DSP set to PEQ:1 - 20Hz 6dB Q=0.7, 2 - 20Hz 6dB Q=0.6, 3 - 15hz 6dB Q=1.0 per mtg90's recommendations. My port is 1.5" x 20" and about 22-23" long!

Thank you for the help!



Quote:

Originally Posted by smcmillan2 (Post 58048490)
In a straight model (no filters) you would lose 4 - 5dB from ~35Hz and up, but gain 2 - 3dB from 35 to ~18Hz replacing the PA460 with the RSS460HO. That is assuming 250w into the PA currently, and 400w into the RSS460.

Wouldn't know where port velocity/1st port resonance hits without port dimensions. Obviously the RSS has more xmax, but a HPF would still be needed as well.


BassThatHz 05-14-2019 05:27 PM

You'd be better off building another VBSS to help smooth the room modes, and adds (up to) 6db.

If space is an issue you could look into dual-opposed ported, but that would likely require a new box and turning the existing one into firewood.

jvphotog 05-14-2019 08:38 PM

Haha well I definitely cant put another VBSS sized sub in my living room. My thought was I would put that RSS460 in the VBSS build for more lower end and then a smaller 15" or 12" for the mid bass in the front of the room and to help smooth things out. But maybe it wouldn't be worth it.

Red Five 05-15-2019 05:36 AM

If you are space bound I strongly encourage putting the most sub you can afford in the space. Increasing cone area through more sub woofers is a great thing, better than chasing after power handling and excursion, but that strategy is not always practical. Since you are in a spot where there is not room for more sub woofers, chasing the power and excursion thing might keep you from wanting an upgrade sooner. Otherwise you might find yourself looking to upgrade much sooner than you anticipated and you have nowhere to go with the first sub to gain more output in the living room :)

jvphotog 05-15-2019 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Five (Post 58050466)
If you are space bound I strongly encourage putting the most sub you can afford in the space. Increasing cone area through more sub woofers is a great thing, better than chasing after power handling and excursion, but that strategy is not always practical. Since you are in a spot where there is not room for more sub woofers, chasing the power and excursion thing might keep you from wanting an upgrade sooner. Otherwise you might find yourself looking to upgrade much sooner than you anticipated and you have nowhere to go with the first sub to gain more output in the living room :)

What do you mean? There is room for another sub, just not as big as the VBSS! Its a monster.... well maybe not to you guys but sitting in my small house and compared to my old 12" its a monster :)

Red Five 05-15-2019 01:01 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Not super popular, because of the price and the 21DS115 only being around $100 more, the 18DS115 offers a lot of output in something the size of a Marty Cube. This is about as much as you can get out of a small form factor. Rounding the port corners off might help a little bit, but this is pushing it :)

2200 watts into 4 Ohms is what is listed on the iNuke 6000DSP at PE, the NX6000D is pretty much a new front bumper and a coat of paint on the old 6000.


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1557950126




https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1557950126


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1557950126

jvphotog 05-15-2019 01:06 PM

Holy crap that thing is efficient and expensive haha. And 2200 watts!? I only have 500!

Red Five 05-15-2019 01:10 PM

If you really want to upgrade, I would suggest saving until you really cannot go deeper down the rabbit hole without doing something to the house, like adding an addition or moving :)

K9woofer 05-15-2019 01:37 PM

The nuke is closer to 1500w above 30hz.

jvphotog 05-28-2019 12:07 PM

1 Attachment(s)
So I have been thinking about this for a while and where I would put a new sub, etc. What I think I am going to do is take the PA460 out of my VBSS and put in a 460HO, and then take that PA460 and build a thinner cab on the other side of my couch to even out the bass. Theres plenty of bass (for me) now, but it just blasts me from the left. I tested this out with a 12" sub I have now and it seemed to even things out well, without any kind of DSP. Might be getting a mini dsp for these two subs someday. Anyways I think thats my plan, for now!

notfastenough 05-28-2019 12:56 PM

Personally, if I were looking to add another sub but didn't have the ability to measure and apply DSP, I'd duplicate the VBSS cabinet. Build it to suit your exterior dimensions (maintaining cabinet net volume) and tune to match the existing cabinet. I'd also use the same driver as well. Just less chances of the two subs not playing nice together in the same frequency range. Also, if you want dedicated ULF subs, the 460HO isn't the first thing that comes to mind. And you'll have a pair of MBM drivers rather than two "singles".

Or maybe it's all reasoning for an irrational desire to have speakers matching and symmetrical setups lol ;) Food for thought if nothing else.

jvphotog 05-28-2019 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notfastenough (Post 58109404)
Personally, if I were looking to add another sub but didn't have the ability to measure and apply DSP, I'd duplicate the VBSS cabinet. Build it to suit your exterior dimensions (maintaining cabinet net volume) and tune to match the existing cabinet. I'd also use the same driver as well. Just less chances of the two subs not playing nice together in the same frequency range. Also, if you want dedicated ULF subs, the 460HO isn't the first thing that comes to mind. And you'll have a pair of MBM drivers rather than two "singles".

Or maybe it's all reasoning for an irrational desire to have speakers matching and symmetrical setups lol ;) Food for thought if nothing else.

I dont have the space! But I do have a little room on the side of my couch - hence the long skinny box. My thought was to put the 460HO in the bigger box because it went lower but what would you pick?

notfastenough 05-28-2019 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jvphotog (Post 58110434)
I dont have the space! But I do have a little room on the side of my couch - hence the long skinny box. My thought was to put the 460HO in the bigger box because it went lower but what would you pick?

I'd see if I could find the extra room for another 1.5ish cu ft and duplicate the existing build tune and use the same driver. You've got the idea and a good model on post 12, just need a little more volume lol.

My temperament to keep matching drivers for the intended bandwidth overrides a small gain in ULF. At this point, many have success with doing this, but it's a personal preference of mine. And for your specific situation, the driver you'd want for the lowest ULF is going to be on the other side of the room instead of VNF. Just too many compromises to justify extra spending for @smcmillan2 's generously modeled slight ULF gains and higher bass/midbass losses IMO.

You'll pick up extra tactile response and SPL with either driver though, especially going VNF.

jvphotog 05-29-2019 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notfastenough (Post 58110800)
I'd see if I could find the extra room for another 1.5ish cu ft and duplicate the existing build tune and use the same driver. You've got the idea and a good model on post 12, just need a little more volume lol.

My temperament to keep matching drivers for the intended bandwidth overrides a small gain in ULF. At this point, many have success with doing this, but it's a personal preference of mine. And for your specific situation, the driver you'd want for the lowest ULF is going to be on the other side of the room instead of VNF. Just too many compromises to justify extra spending for @smcmillan2 's generously modeled slight ULF gains and higher bass/midbass losses IMO.

You'll pick up extra tactile response and SPL with either driver though, especially going VNF.

SO it would be cheaper/better just to buy another $99 PA460 and put it in a skinny end table cab? Since that $300 driver would only give me an extra 3db on the low end. And to build something ULF to put in the front of the room? Like I said earlier I'm really just interested in smoothing things out since right now Im just getting blasted in my left ear and trying out that sub on the right of the couch really helped things out. Thanks!

notfastenough 05-29-2019 08:03 AM

I feel like that's the value winner for output. Having multiples means you can dial levels up and down to suit your preferences.

Check out this post on @KevinMRoach thread. If you can give the room, it might be a good fit. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...l#post58111876

jvphotog 05-29-2019 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notfastenough (Post 58112590)
I feel like that's the value winner for output. Having multiples means you can dial levels up and down to suit your preferences.

Check out this post on @KevinMRoach thread. If you can give the room, it might be a good fit. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...l#post58111876

Wow that's a lot smaller than the cab i planned to build. I wonder if he ever built it. And I wonder why he picked such a low tube for that cab size. WINISD seems to think 36-45hz tune would give me the most output for my size cab.

KevinMRoach 05-29-2019 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jvphotog (Post 58112604)
Quote:

Originally Posted by notfastenough (Post 58112590)
I feel like that's the value winner for output. Having multiples means you can dial levels up and down to suit your preferences.

Check out this post on @KevinMRoach thread. If you can give the room, it might be a good fit. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...l#post58111876

Wow that's a lot smaller than the cab i planned to build. I wonder if he ever built it. And I wonder why he picked such a low tube for that cab size. WINISD seems to think 36-45hz tune would give me the most output for my size cab.

Nope I have yet to build, I was hoping for some advise on it. I modified the original 20/15hz VBSS design. Kept the internal volume very close, and tried to match the slot designed close as possible. Basically just flattened the design and moved the slots to the side.

jvphotog 05-29-2019 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinMRoach (Post 58112646)
Nope I have yet to build, I was hoping for some advise on it. I modified the original 20/15hz VBSS design. Kept the internal volume very close, and tried to match the slot designed close as possible. Basically just flattened the design and moved the slots to the side.

Haha I reread your post where you said you messed up on the drawing... I only looked at the drawing the first time :)

I built my "VBSS" to my own dimensions and powered it with only 250w and it shakes my entire house/walls/front door NO PROBLEM. Im guessing yours would be fine, not that Im qualified to give an opinion haha

KevinMRoach 05-29-2019 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jvphotog (Post 58112848)
Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinMRoach (Post 58112646)
Nope I have yet to build, I was hoping for some advise on it. I modified the original 20/15hz VBSS design. Kept the internal volume very close, and tried to match the slot designed close as possible. Basically just flattened the design and moved the slots to the side.

Haha I reread your post where you said you messed up on the drawing... I only looked at the drawing the first time [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

Well I think the outside dimensions are correct, I think I messed up on my Port dimensions. I am hoping someone can correct them

jvphotog 05-29-2019 09:22 AM

1 Attachment(s)
This is where its going - that side carpet strip is only 12" wide


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