sp1-1400/2400-HT vs a good power amp - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 19 Old 05-15-2019, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
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sp1-1400/2400-HT vs a good power amp

looking for something for the sub (obviously).... this is gonna be for one 18" sub in a 13cuft sonotube tuned to 17hz. I have got to get down to at least a VERY audible 15hz for movies, so if theres a HPF that's set high i.e 30hz and above, I need an amp with a good work around ((im not very handy so changing resistors isnt for me lol)). thanks so much fellas....please ask me any questions..................

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post #2 of 19 Old 05-15-2019, 03:06 PM
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I don't know what you're asking for so stating what driver you're going to use and what you want to know would help us help you.

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post #3 of 19 Old 05-15-2019, 04:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by CrusherW9 View Post
I don't know what you're asking for so stating what driver you're going to use and what you want to know would help us help you.

i have a dayton dcs18 4ohm sub.....its already put together. i used to use a bash 500 watt plate amp which was enough power but 1. it would automatically shut off in the middle of a movie and 2. i believe it had a high roll off as far as the hpf.
so im looking for a 2019 something.... 70/30 movies/music going on a denon avr-x4400
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post #4 of 19 Old 05-15-2019, 04:56 PM
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I just modeled your configuration and it seems that at the full rated 300w RMS power for the driver you're already exceeding the rated xmax between 20-45hz. The 500w amp should be sufficient, assuming it's actually capable of putting out at least 300w. I'm curious to know if you're running any kind of EQ with this setup? Are you using any other subs? How big is the room that it's in? We can recommend all kinds of amps but something seems fishy to me, here.
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post #5 of 19 Old 05-15-2019, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adio412 View Post
looking for something for the sub (obviously).... this is gonna be for one 18" sub in a 13cuft sonotube tuned to 17hz. I have got to get down to at least a VERY audible 15hz for movies
Quote:
Originally Posted by adio412
i have a dayton dcs18 4ohm sub
IMHO, you have the wrong driver for your application.
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post #6 of 19 Old 05-16-2019, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by adio412 View Post
for one 18" sub in a 13cuft sonotube tuned to 17hz. I have got to get down to at least a VERY audible 15hz for movies
If your goal is maximum 15hz, then tuning to 17hz isn't helping you any.

Between the port and the 17hz HPF you'll already be down -3db @ 17hz (which is half output), below that it will drop like a rock.

If you want 15hz -0db, you'll have to tune to like ~13hz or whatever.

and yeah, the driver doesn't have enough excursion or power handling for those frequency extremes.
The UM-18 or HST-18 or ZV5-18 would "likely" be a better fit if you need max-infrasonics.

As for the speakerpower amps, they'll smoke your current driver if you aren't careful with the volume knob. Unlike most plate amps, I heard those amps ACTUALLY make the power they say they do.
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post #7 of 19 Old 05-16-2019, 08:46 AM
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Agree with everything said so far. Speakerpower amps are pretty much the best of the best. If you don't want to spend that kind of money, you can always go with one of the Lab Gruppen clones from china.

As for the driver, 15Hz is not feasible with a 17Hz tuning especially with a sub that only has 12mm xmax. You will need to buy more subs or bigger subs to achieve what you are looking for. Chasing sub-20Hz content is where you can really get lost in the rabbit hole.

Also check out the "equal loudness contours." Basically this shows that the lower the frequency, the louder it has to play to be considered the same subjective volume as content in the 500-5000Hz range.
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post #8 of 19 Old 05-16-2019, 01:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by CrusherW9 View Post
I just modeled your configuration and it seems that at the full rated 300w RMS power for the driver you're already exceeding the rated xmax between 20-45hz. The 500w amp should be sufficient, assuming it's actually capable of putting out at least 300w. I'm curious to know if you're running any kind of EQ with this setup? Are you using any other subs? How big is the room that it's in? We can recommend all kinds of amps but something seems fishy to me, here.
Why does it seem fishy?? I'm just askin for amp recommendations 🤷‍♂️🤷‍ ♂️.......
I dont have any eq. When it's all said and done all I'll have is xt32 on the denon. I cant remember if it has subEQ on it. IM only using this one sub for now..... my house is completely open concept......livingroom to dining room to kitchen and then downstairs
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post #9 of 19 Old 05-16-2019, 01:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smcmillan2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by adio412 View Post
looking for something for the sub (obviously).... this is gonna be for one 18" sub in a 13cuft sonotube tuned to 17hz. I have got to get down to at least a VERY audible 15hz for movies
Quote:
Originally Posted by adio412
i have a dayton dcs18 4ohm sub
IMHO, you have the wrong driver for your application.
Why is that?
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post #10 of 19 Old 05-16-2019, 01:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by adio412 View Post
for one 18" sub in a 13cuft sonotube tuned to 17hz. I have got to get down to at least a VERY audible 15hz for movies
If your goal is maximum 15hz, then tuning to 17hz isn't helping you any.

Between the port and the 17hz HPF you'll already be down -3db @ 17hz (which is half output), below that it will drop like a rock.

If you want 15hz -0db, you'll have to tune to like ~13hz or whatever.

and yeah, the driver doesn't have enough excursion or power handling for those frequency extremes.
The UM-18 or HST-18 or ZV5-18 would "likely" be a better fit if you need max-infrasonics.


As for the speakerpower amps, they'll smoke your current driver if you aren't careful with the volume knob. Unlike most plate amps, I heard those amps ACTUALLY make the power they say they do. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG]
Extremely helpful.....thanks
Whered you hear about that at??
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post #11 of 19 Old 05-16-2019, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jedi940 View Post
Agree with everything said so far. Speakerpower amps are pretty much the best of the best. If you don't want to spend that kind of money, you can always go with one of the Lab Gruppen clones from china.

As for the driver, 15Hz is not feasible with a 17Hz tuning especially with a sub that only has 12mm xmax. You will need to buy more subs or bigger subs to achieve what you are looking for. Chasing sub-20Hz content is where you can really get lost in the rabbit hole.

Also check out the "equal loudness contours." Basically this shows that the lower the frequency, the louder it has to play to be considered the same subjective volume as content in the 500-5000Hz range.
Where can I find these at??
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post #12 of 19 Old 05-16-2019, 02:35 PM
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I've attached pictures of some simulations. The one titled "300w" is a comparison between your current driver (green) vs a Dayton UM18 (red) at 300w in your current enclosure. The one titled "max" is showing the difference between the drivers at their rated max power, which is 300w for your driver and 1000w for the UM18. As you can see, your driver loses steam on the low end where as the UM18 actually has a slight bump around 20hz. You can also see that the UM18 provides the same amount of output down low as your current driver, watt for watt, but it can take 1000+w so you have the potential to gain about 6db. It seems like you simply don't have enough subwoofer with your current setup because you're already pushing your current sub to it's max (300w). If you want more output, the correct answer in my opinion is either more subs or swap to a UM18 and a higher power amp (NX6000). I'd also recommend moving your sub or seating around because it's possible you're just sitting in a null.
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post #13 of 19 Old 05-16-2019, 06:13 PM
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Where can I find these at??
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=equal+loudness+contour
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post #14 of 19 Old 05-16-2019, 08:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by CrusherW9 View Post
I've attached pictures of some simulations. The one titled "300w" is a comparison between your current driver (green) vs a Dayton UM18 (red) at 300w in your current enclosure. The one titled "max" is showing the difference between the drivers at their rated max power, which is 300w for your driver and 1000w for the UM18. As you can see, your driver loses steam on the low end where as the UM18 actually has a slight bump around 20hz. You can also see that the UM18 provides the same amount of output down low as your current driver, watt for watt, but it can take 1000+w so you have the potential to gain about 6db. It seems like you simply don't have enough subwoofer with your current setup because you're already pushing your current sub to it's max (300w). If you want more output, the correct answer in my opinion is either more subs or swap to a UM18 and a higher power amp (NX6000). I'd also recommend moving your sub or seating around because it's possible you're just sitting in a null.

thanks so much.......
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post #15 of 19 Old 05-16-2019, 08:25 PM - Thread Starter
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post #16 of 19 Old 05-17-2019, 04:29 AM
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sp1-1400/2400-HT vs a good power amp

You don’t need a SpeakerPower amp for that Dayton. Unless you’re trying to destroy your driver. Listen to the advice given. If you’re willing to outlay the money for a SP amp; going to a more expensive, more capable driver shouldn’t be an issue.

Here’s the thing with subs. You say your house is an open concept. Then, that single sub is trying to fill your entire house with bass. It’s never going to be able to play to 15hz with the driver you’re currently using or being a single sub. Not knowing how big your house is makes it even more difficult to help. But, let’s just assume it’s 1500sqft with 8ft ceilings. Well, what your sub is seeing is 12,000 (1500x8) cubic ft of space. There’s no way 1 sub will be able to play down to 15hz with any authority in a “room” that size.

What the other posters above are trying to tell you is simply this: get a driver with a stronger motor, that had more xmas, higher power handling capacity and then more of them.

I think you should figure out exactly what you’re trying to achieve. An amp WILL NOT solve the problem. Yes it’s important, but not nearly as important as the driver.

To help you properly, answer these questions:

1. How big is the “room”? Keeping in mind the sub will see the whole house if it’s an open concept.
2. Are you willing to build multiple subs to achieve your goal?
3. Are you willing to start over with a new driver?
4. What is your goal? Do you want to really feel sub 20hz content?
5. Are you willing to learn REW? Buy a mic to use REW?

The people can be incredibly helpful, but they need more information from you. Without that, there’s only a limited amount anyone can do to help.

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post #17 of 19 Old 06-17-2019, 10:58 AM
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Put that sub as close to your listening position as possible (VNF - very near field). That's the only way you'll have a chance to feel 15Hz given the large room volume.

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post #18 of 19 Old 06-17-2019, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adio412 View Post
Whered you hear about that at??
From owners and amp tests posted in this forum area.

If you want maximum 16hz, save up for an SI-24.
https://data-bass.com/#/systems
I'd say a GHorn, but you can't buy those anymore and it has -9000% WAF.
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post #19 of 19 Old 06-17-2019, 08:24 PM
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DIYSoundgroup has a few on clearance (like maybe one of those two)....

Act now before they go as they are listed below cost.

Check the limited supply section, they were there earlier this afternoon...


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