88-Special build - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 81 Old 05-28-2019, 11:27 AM
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keeping track . . Hmmmm

notebook, spiral notebook, loose leaf, I like 8 x 11 size, plenty or room
the date, what "detail" , speakers, speaker /sub combo I'm chasing / testing / comparing
initial settings,,
I know that always thinking you need to be repeating all data entry into each sweep is a PITA (insert Charlie Brown AARRRRRGGGHH!-here)

but you ( should) make only 1 change at a time, so record the change and maybe how it was better, or not
and you do save your REW sessions , bad and good alike- edit out the crap later, tho not usually needed
a dedicated thumb drive -stuff doesn't get "lost"

the hand written version , like a back-up , of changes and results / extra notes gave me something to more easily go back and forth wrt to evaluation
without needing to fire up the computer and necessary set-up for review of the work
portable, like a book- what a concept . . .
but we do love out technology and the visuals-agreed!

at over 70 y.o., maybe it has to do with the instilled / necessary discipline and grit to get through college with 'only' a typewriter and a slide-rule.
( it's tough to give any kid today much "sympathy' about how tough it is . .)
try doing it with the threat of getting drafted and going to 'Nam. Pu$$ys.

(as an aside, to too many kids and young adults, in this day and age, - No-I don't yell get off my lawn,
I'm inclined to feel sad- bigly sad- and think: put the cellphone away and grow a pair).
and no.I'm and equal opportunity "fail at your own speed kinda guy"

It's part of liking the DIY aspect of "this". and I've read all the old Tom Swift books, too . . and have the set, 60 years later


I repeat a line from Peter Dinklage, from a vid on youtube: "Fail BETTER!

HTH

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post #32 of 81 Old 05-28-2019, 12:44 PM
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Try Microsoft OneNote to keep stuff organized. As you surf the web you can grab relevant Web Addresses, Images, Spec sheets, tips, etc and organize them into notebooks.
I'm always surfing and reading, and later wondering "where did I see that?" There is a mode where you can simultaneously surf within your browser, and take notes in OneNote. OneNote will put a link to what site you were on when you wrote the note.
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post #33 of 81 Old 05-28-2019, 01:03 PM
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Do screen captures and with notes...if REW provides such capability. I use OmniMic which allows both. I save first and last runs to be able to see how much was done.

There is no problem using Audyssey for now. Just be careful to not get too crazy with widely spaced mic locations. Stay within a couple feet of position one, as it recommends...unless your listening distance and L/R mains distance from each other create less than about 41 degrees subtended angle at position 1 (show center).
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post #34 of 81 Old 05-28-2019, 04:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post
Do screen captures and with notes...if REW provides such capability. I use OmniMic which allows both. I save first and last runs to be able to see how much was done.

There is no problem using Audyssey for now. Just be careful to not get too crazy with widely spaced mic locations. Stay within a couple feet of position one, as it recommends...unless your listening distance and L/R mains distance from each other create less than about 41 degrees subtended angle at position 1 (show center).
Hmm well I definitely moved the mic around more than a few feet! I just went with the picture inscriptions the amp shows to do.
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post #35 of 81 Old 05-28-2019, 04:47 PM
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depending on how much uniform coverage for your total seating you're trying to get
some (more MLP focused) will move the mic not much more than 6 inches or less.

it's worth a shot, maybe?
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post #36 of 81 Old 05-28-2019, 05:15 PM
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Hmm well I definitely moved the mic around more than a few feet! I just went with the picture inscriptions the amp shows to do.
It is related primarily to how well the speaker covers the listening area. The 88, even with that 15" SEOS WG and the low 900Hz crossover, won't cover too much width; maybe plus/minus 25%. So, if you are placing your Audyssey mic out at the edges of that, you could start to get wanky sounding filter calculations. Audyssey also wants to not induce too many problems for it to solve in the LF by moving close to walls that may happen in some rooms if you move several feet from show center/position 1.
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post #37 of 81 Old 05-30-2019, 06:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Got the mic in today! This is fun! This is a test of just the center with Audyssey on and off(pure direct) The sub turns off in Pure direct mode, apparently.
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post #38 of 81 Old 05-30-2019, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by jvphotog View Post
I trimmed them a hair under 1.5". Sorry I forget what the total length is, just what I took off.
Not sure if you're talking about the 88-Special, but those ports shouldn't be cut down.

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post #39 of 81 Old 05-30-2019, 11:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
Not sure if you're talking about the 88-Special, but those ports shouldn't be cut down.
My cabinet is 3" deeper than stock so mtg90 suggested I cut my ports down a bit.
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post #40 of 81 Old 05-31-2019, 06:55 AM
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That's about 40% bigger than the standard design. Not sure how those woofers would do going that big.

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post #41 of 81 Old 06-01-2019, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by jvphotog View Post
Got the mic in today! This is fun! This is a test of just the center with Audyssey on and off(pure direct) The sub turns off in Pure direct mode, apparently.
I'm not experienced with REW (I use OmniMic), so I'm trying to figure out what all this really is. It almost seems there's too much information crammed into this.

Is this an average of several mic positions in your listening area? Are they the same positions used for the Audyssey mic?

In general, this looks terrible. What is the resolution?

Given your mods to this speaker, have you done a close mic (aimed at the speaker from about 3' away) measurement with the speaker out in the room well clear of boundaries to get some idea of the affect of your mods?
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post #42 of 81 Old 06-01-2019, 02:45 PM
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OP

you'll get much more constructive feedback in the REW thread> Alan P, Austin Jerry - the kind of go-to guys you want on your team

the mic positioning for the AVR and Audy set up is one thing

for the time being, focusing on the 88 with REW is a priority because of the mod

and more breaking in will help

keep us posted - you can always post a link to what happens over there
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post #43 of 81 Old 06-01-2019, 03:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you guys, I am putting this on hold for a day because I ordered an X3400H and it will be here tomorrow!
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post #44 of 81 Old 06-01-2019, 04:00 PM
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my older onkyo's had audy EQ and the 818 had XT32

the upgrade to the X5200 about 5 years ago with the Sub EQ was tectonic

be sure to check out the dedicated thread if you already haven't

post somebefore and after impressions . .
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post #45 of 81 Old 06-05-2019, 08:00 AM - Thread Starter
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I got my new amp up and running. There was definitely an improvement. These measurements were taken with the speaker in my media cabinet, pretty close to the ground. At my MLP and one meter away. With and without Audyssey corrections.
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post #46 of 81 Old 06-06-2019, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by jvphotog View Post
I got my new amp up and running. There was definitely an improvement. These measurements were taken with the speaker in my media cabinet, pretty close to the ground. At my MLP and one meter away. With and without Audyssey corrections.
@asarose247 ...what is your take on those? It's chaos to my eyes. I'm used to the one below (an HTM-12 and subs post calibration emulating the Harman/Synthesis curve, 1/6th octave resolution). Is it a high resolution setting on the OP's REW graphs that make it so chaotic? Or is there considerable "stuff" going on with his system/acoustics?
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post #47 of 81 Old 06-06-2019, 07:58 AM - Thread Starter
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@asarose247 ...what is your take on those? It's chaos to my eyes. I'm used to the one below (an HTM-12 and subs post calibration emulating the Harman/Synthesis curve, 1/6th octave resolution). Is it a high resolution setting on the OP's REW graphs that make it so chaotic? Or is there considerable "stuff" going on with his system/acoustics?
Here is mine with 1/6 smoothing and 45-105 as you have it set:
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post #48 of 81 Old 06-06-2019, 08:07 AM
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Here is mine with 1/6 smoothing and 45-105 as you have it set:
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Here is mine with 1/6 smoothing and 45-105 as you have it set:
Is this just the 88 Special, or with sub? It must be with sub. 45 -105? I don't know what that is.

Either way, that's a long way from smooth response; you have a lot of issues there to solve. Of course, I have no idea what all is going on.

FYI, that dip at about 2K is the Audyssey mid-level correction. When you use the Editor App, you can turn that feature off. The 88-Special crosses so low as to make it not needed.
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post #49 of 81 Old 06-06-2019, 08:28 AM
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@jvphotog ...see if you can find anything useful to your installation in my review of my 88-Special build and installation below.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...l#post40821522
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post #50 of 81 Old 06-06-2019, 08:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Is this just the 88 Special, or with sub? It must be with sub. 45 -105? I don't know what that is.

Either way, that's a long way from smooth response; you have a lot of issues there to solve. Of course, I have no idea what all is going on.

FYI, that dip at about 2K is the Audyssey mid-level correction. When you use the Editor App, you can turn that feature off. The 88-Special crosses so low as to make it not needed.
I believe the Audyssey is with the Sub and in Pure or Direct mode it turns the sub off. Haha your graph does from 45db up to 105db ish. So it would appear smoother than a graph that goes from say 60db to 100db.

Lol I have no idea what is going on either!

Im excited to use the editor app but I have yet to download it!


Cool Ill check it out, Thanks!
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post #51 of 81 Old 06-06-2019, 09:07 AM
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I believe the Audyssey is with the Sub and in Pure or Direct mode it turns the sub off. Haha your graph does from 45db up to 105db ish. So it would appear smoother than a graph that goes from say 60db to 100db.
I see...you were referring to spl.
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post #52 of 81 Old 06-06-2019, 10:37 AM - Thread Starter
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I believe the Audyssey is with the Sub and in Pure or Direct mode it turns the sub off. Haha your graph does from 45db up to 105db ish. So it would appear smoother than a graph that goes from say 60db to 100db.
I see...you were referring to spl.
Well I’m not sure what to do now
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post #53 of 81 Old 06-06-2019, 10:57 AM
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Well I’m not sure what to do now
The steps I followed to "test" my 88 may help? Look at my in-room test set-up I describe. Maybe do the same and let's see what the speaker does with as little nearby acoustic influence as possible. The close, aimed mic will help that. Also clean up what is on the REW screen to one trace. Use 1/6th octave resolution. Make sure your sub is off. Let's start there.
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post #54 of 81 Old 06-06-2019, 02:17 PM
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sorry about being late to the party
i'll need to do some review in catching up

Cam Man posts in his build were of invaluable assistance and insight
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post #55 of 81 Old 06-07-2019, 02:45 PM - Thread Starter
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The steps I followed to "test" my 88 may help? Look at my in-room test set-up I describe. Maybe do the same and let's see what the speaker does with as little nearby acoustic influence as possible. The close, aimed mic will help that. Also clean up what is on the REW screen to one trace. Use 1/6th octave resolution. Make sure your sub is off. Let's start there.
Wow I just read through your build thread, sounds like you have quite the setup! Alrighty, I will test the 88 at 3' again but this time ill put it on a stand and turn the sub off. Should I keep audyssey on or test in direct mode? DEQ off? Haha I guess I can do both. Thanks!
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post #56 of 81 Old 06-07-2019, 02:52 PM
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Wow I just read through your build thread, sounds like you have quite the setup! Alrighty, I will test the 88 at 3' again but this time ill put it on a stand and turn the sub off. Should I keep audyssey on or test in direct mode? DEQ off? Haha I guess I can do both. Thanks!
Nope. No Audyssey yet (therefore no DEQ). Put the AVR mode in mono. No direct mode needed. Move the mic back to 5', centered level with speaker and mic aimed at it. 5' is certain to be in the heart of the the full voice of the CD and woofers.

Do a separate run with just your subwoofer on. Separate REW screen, please. I want to see each separately for now.
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post #57 of 81 Old 06-07-2019, 03:20 PM
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Wow I just read through your build thread, sounds like you have quite the setup! Alrighty, I will test the 88 at 3' again but this time ill put it on a stand and turn the sub off. Should I keep audyssey on or test in direct mode? DEQ off? Haha I guess I can do both. Thanks!
I forgot to tell you something you probably already know. Your REW mic positions for the subwoofer run should be clustered around your MLP (within about 2'). Average your positions into one trace. These mic positions will duplicate your Audyssey mic positions to be done later.

BTW, no Audyssey for the sub run, either.
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post #58 of 81 Old 06-07-2019, 04:12 PM - Thread Starter
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I forgot to tell you something you probably already know. Your REW mic positions for the subwoofer run should be clustered around your MLP (within about 2'). Average your positions into one trace. These mic positions will duplicate your Audyssey mic positions to be done later.

BTW, no Audyssey for the sub run, either.
Ah! Thank you, I was actually going to ask you that.


So for the 88, Can i just put the amp in direct mode? Pressing that button is easier than reaching behind the couch and turning off the sub, etc. But I did find a movie mono mode if I hold down the "movie" button on the remote for a few seconds. Im not sure what all changes.
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post #59 of 81 Old 06-07-2019, 04:26 PM - Thread Starter
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I couldn't figure out how to make sound come out from only the center channel in mono mode, so I just used direct mode. Crossover set to 40hz. I hope I did this right... 3 tests, averaged with 1/6 smoothing.
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post #60 of 81 Old 06-07-2019, 04:29 PM
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Ah! Thank you, I was actually going to ask you that.


So for 88, Can i just put the amp in direct mode? pressing that button is easier than reaching behind the couch and turning off the sub. But I did find a movie mono mode if I hold down the "movie" button on the remote for a few seconds. Im not sure what all changes.
I'm not sure you can get into mono in the direct mode. I'm just trying to make sure that whatever you're using for test tone is for sure summed to the 88. That movie mono mode is what you want. If you can get into mono with direct, go ahead. I've just never tried to do it.

Adjustments: The 88 is too near the corner. If possible, move the 88 in front of the fireplace about 6' from it. Move mic back to the 5' distance in front of it. Otherwise, all looks good.
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