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post #61 of 81 Old 06-07-2019, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by jvphotog View Post
I couldn't figure out how to make sound come out from only the center channel in mono mode, so I just used direct mode. Crossover set to 40hz. I hope I did this right... 3 tests, averaged with 1/6 smoothing.
Not a bad start. Save that. Now move the 88 and mic and re-do...and let's watch that 200Hz bump.
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post #62 of 81 Old 06-07-2019, 04:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post
I'm not sure you can get into mono in the direct mode. I'm just trying to make sure that whatever you're using for test tone is for sure summed to the 88. That movie mono mode is what you want. If you can get into mono with direct, go ahead. I've just never tried to do it.

Adjustments: The 88 is too near the corner. If possible, move the 88 in front of the fireplace about 6' from it. Move mic back to the 5' distance in front of it. Otherwise, all looks good.
My house is small! I don't really have 6' away from anything... If I moved the speaker out 6' then the mic would be pretty close to a wall, does that matter? The room is about 15x15x8. Thanks!
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post #63 of 81 Old 06-07-2019, 04:36 PM
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Oops, no averaging necessary for this because the mic doesn't change positions. That'l save you some time. The 40Hz crossover won't affect anything.
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post #64 of 81 Old 06-07-2019, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by jvphotog View Post
My house is small! I don't really have 6' away from anything... If I moved the speaker out 6' then the mic would be pretty close to a wall, does that matter? The room is about 15x15x8. Thanks!
Photos help! Move the 88 in front of the screen wall about 4' from it. Put the mic 4' - 5' in front of the speaker. Can you make that work? Maybe move the coffee table out of the way for now.
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post #65 of 81 Old 06-07-2019, 04:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Hopefully this is better:
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post #66 of 81 Old 06-07-2019, 04:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post
Oops, no averaging necessary for this because the mic doesn't change positions. That'l save you some time. The 40Hz crossover won't affect anything.
Ah, thank you. And a third position:
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post #67 of 81 Old 06-07-2019, 04:57 PM
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Photog, nice 88 build and good looking place.
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post #68 of 81 Old 06-07-2019, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by jvphotog View Post
Hopefully this is better:
Very nice room!

Alright, this position and measurements are the best. Notice that your single pass looks like your others. That's because there's only one mic position.

This is about what I would expect from an 88. Notice that it falls off quite a bit on the low end. That's by design, and we'll see that change dramatically when you put the 88 in its installation cubby hole.

Notice that everything is a bit smoother. There are ups and downs, but everything is already +/- 4dB or so. All you see here is easily manageable with Audyssey and the Editor App, but of course this is not where the speaker will live. Hopefully, we'll be in the ballpark once there. I'm not sure what that little spike is above 15KHz, but I wouldn't worry about that for now.

My suggestion is to move on now to the averaged sub runs. So...your seating is at a boundary; the wall. That is going to affect your LF response, but it will be easily manageable. I recommend you only do five positions: Center of the sofa; the two sofa seats, and two about 18" in front of the sofa seat front edge, about three feet apart, centered in front of the sofa. No Audyssey. Let's see how that looks.
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post #69 of 81 Old 06-07-2019, 06:35 PM
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I dig all your camera decorating in the room/house.
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post #70 of 81 Old 06-08-2019, 02:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post
Very nice room!

Alright, this position and measurements are the best. Notice that your single pass looks like your others. That's because there's only one mic position.

This is about what I would expect from an 88. Notice that it falls off quite a bit on the low end. That's by design, and we'll see that change dramatically when you put the 88 in its installation cubby hole.

Notice that everything is a bit smoother. There are ups and downs, but everything is already +/- 4dB or so. All you see here is easily manageable with Audyssey and the Editor App, but of course this is not where the speaker will live. Hopefully, we'll be in the ballpark once there. I'm not sure what that little spike is above 15KHz, but I wouldn't worry about that for now.

My suggestion is to move on now to the averaged sub runs. So...your seating is at a boundary; the wall. That is going to affect your LF response, but it will be easily manageable. I recommend you only do five positions: Center of the sofa; the two sofa seats, and two about 18" in front of the sofa seat front edge, about three feet apart, centered in front of the sofa. No Audyssey. Let's see how that looks.
Thanks you guys, I really appreciate it. I made/built everything, except the bottom of coffee table and orange seat. And when you're a guy living/decorating alone...and you're a photographer... a bunch of old cameras make sense haha


Alright here is the five positions averaged for the "VBSS" sub. I didnt use any smoothing. Thanks!
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post #71 of 81 Old 06-08-2019, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jvphotog View Post
Thanks you guys, I really appreciate it. I made/built everything, except the bottom of coffee table and orange seat. And when you're a guy living/decorating alone...and you're a photographer... a bunch of old cameras make sense haha


Alright here is the five positions averaged for the "VBSS" sub. I didnt use any smoothing. Thanks!
This is excellent. The sub is definitely in an acoustically friendly location in the room.

Next is to put the 88 in its final place. Kill that first reflection we talked about (maybe temporarily with a sofa cushion propped against the wall below those shelves).

You can run the Audyssey without the Editor App if you like, but you will have to re-do it with the Editor App once you get it. I'd wait until you have the app so you can roll.
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post #72 of 81 Old 06-08-2019, 05:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post
Very nice room!

Alright, this position and measurements are the best. Notice that your single pass looks like your others. That's because there's only one mic position.

This is about what I would expect from an 88. Notice that it falls off quite a bit on the low end. That's by design, and we'll see that change dramatically when you put the 88 in its installation cubby hole.

Notice that everything is a bit smoother. There are ups and downs, but everything is already +/- 4dB or so. All you see here is easily manageable with Audyssey and the Editor App, but of course this is not where the speaker will live. Hopefully, we'll be in the ballpark once there. I'm not sure what that little spike is above 15KHz, but I wouldn't worry about that for now.

My suggestion is to move on now to the averaged sub runs. So...your seating is at a boundary; the wall. That is going to affect your LF response, but it will be easily manageable. I recommend you only do five positions: Center of the sofa; the two sofa seats, and two about 18" in front of the sofa seat front edge, about three feet apart, centered in front of the sofa. No Audyssey. Let's see how that looks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post
This is excellent. The sub is definitely in an acoustically friendly location in the room.

Next is to put the 88 in its final place. Kill that first reflection we talked about (maybe temporarily with a sofa cushion propped against the wall below those shelves).

You can run the Audyssey without the Editor App if you like, but you will have to re-do it with the Editor App once you get it. I'd wait until you have the app so you can roll.
Wow this app has A LOT of stuff in it. I ran the tests - with a couch cushion below the shelves. It looks great haha
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post #73 of 81 Old 06-08-2019, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by jvphotog View Post
Wow this app has A LOT of stuff in it. I ran the tests - with a couch cushion below the shelves. It looks great haha
Yep, I'll contact you via PM in the AM. What freq do your L/R Mains crossover at?
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post #74 of 81 Old 06-09-2019, 07:39 AM
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Good Morning...

Most of the screenshots from the Editor you posted are meaningless stuff that Audyssey creates to show you what the results should look like. Reality is something else. That's what we will begin with today. We're going to be doing multiple REW runs to verify first what Audyssey has done, and then what we do with adjustment with the Editor app. Of course, you first have to tell the Editor App to send the initial Audyssey five position run results to the AVR. We'll also do that after each adjustment iteration.

For all the REW verification runs: Audyssey ON; Dynamic EQ OFF. You don't need to be at Reference level on the runs since Dynamic EQ is off, but I generally use -10dB.

Before proceeding, here's some adjustments that need to be done in the Editor and loaded to the AVR. Go to the Editor page that shows you what it wants to use for crossover to sub. Notice it's 40Hz. That's normal, and generally wrong. Long story. Set the 88 center to 80Hz. Set the L/R Mains at 60Hz. Set surrounds to what you think they can handle; likely 80Hz at lowest, but often 100Hz. I don't see the page with the sub low pass filter settings. That should be up at 120Hz. Make sure if there is one active on the subwoofer that it is turned up all the way...so that xt32 can control that.

Go to the page about Mid-range correction. Turn it off for the LCRs. I don't know what you have for surrounds, but if their crossover is up over 1.8KHz or higher, leave the Mid-range correction on. That dip you see at 2KHz is the Mid-range Correction Filter input.

Load all the changes to the AVR.

We're going to start with a look at the results with the sub. This is likely to be quite good. Do an REW run just for the sub using the original 5 mic positions. Average, and let's see how xt32 did.
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Last edited by Cam Man; 06-09-2019 at 08:01 AM.
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post #75 of 81 Old 06-09-2019, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post
Good Morning...

Most of the screenshots from the Editor you posted are meaningless stuff that Audyssey creates to show you what the results should look like. Reality is something else. That's what we will begin with today. We're going to be doing multiple REW runs to verify first what Audyssey has done, and then what we do with adjustment with the Editor app. Of course, you first have to tell the Editor App to send the initial Audyssey five position run results to the AVR. We'll also do that after each adjustment iteration.

For all the REW verification runs: Audyssey ON; Dynamic EQ OFF. You don't need to be at Reference level on the runs since Dynamic EQ is off, but I generally use -10dB.

Before proceeding, here's some adjustments that need to be done in the Editor and loaded to the AVR. Go to the Editor page that shows you what it wants to use for crossover to sub. Notice it's 40Hz. That's normal, and generally wrong. Long story. Set the 88 center to 80Hz. Set the L/R Mains at 60Hz. Set surrounds to what you think they can handle; likely 80Hz at lowest, but often 100Hz. I don't see the page with the sub low pass filter settings. That should be up at 120Hz. Make sure if there is one active on the subwoofer that it is turned up all the way...so that xt32 can control that.

Go to the page about Mid-range correction. Turn it off for the LCRs. I don't know what you have for surrounds, but if their crossover is up over 1.8KHz or higher, leave the Mid-range correction on. That dip you see at 2KHz is the Mid-range Correction Filter input.

Load all the changes to the AVR.

We're going to start with a look at the results with the sub. This is likely to be quite good. Do an REW run just for the sub using the original 5 mic positions. Average, and let's see how xt32 did.
I'm following along with great interest as I am going to be getting an AVR with Audyssey XT32 (Marantz SR6013 or 7013) later this year when I upgrade to 4k and Atmos. So, thanks for all these detailed instructions and sharing with everyone here.
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post #76 of 81 Old 06-09-2019, 03:16 PM
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I'm following along with great interest as I am going to be getting an AVR with Audyssey XT32 (Marantz SR6013 or 7013) later this year when I upgrade to 4k and Atmos. So, thanks for all these detailed instructions and sharing with everyone here.
Use caution, though. Some things such as the Mid-level correction and crossover settings are specific to the OP's LCR speakers.
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post #77 of 81 Old 06-10-2019, 06:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post
Good Morning...

Most of the screenshots from the Editor you posted are meaningless stuff that Audyssey creates to show you what the results should look like. Reality is something else. That's what we will begin with today. We're going to be doing multiple REW runs to verify first what Audyssey has done, and then what we do with adjustment with the Editor app. Of course, you first have to tell the Editor App to send the initial Audyssey five position run results to the AVR. We'll also do that after each adjustment iteration.

For all the REW verification runs: Audyssey ON; Dynamic EQ OFF. You don't need to be at Reference level on the runs since Dynamic EQ is off, but I generally use -10dB.

Before proceeding, here's some adjustments that need to be done in the Editor and loaded to the AVR. Go to the Editor page that shows you what it wants to use for crossover to sub. Notice it's 40Hz. That's normal, and generally wrong. Long story. Set the 88 center to 80Hz. Set the L/R Mains at 60Hz. Set surrounds to what you think they can handle; likely 80Hz at lowest, but often 100Hz. I don't see the page with the sub low pass filter settings. That should be up at 120Hz. Make sure if there is one active on the subwoofer that it is turned up all the way...so that xt32 can control that.

Go to the page about Mid-range correction. Turn it off for the LCRs. I don't know what you have for surrounds, but if their crossover is up over 1.8KHz or higher, leave the Mid-range correction on. That dip you see at 2KHz is the Mid-range Correction Filter input.

Load all the changes to the AVR.

We're going to start with a look at the results with the sub. This is likely to be quite good. Do an REW run just for the sub using the original 5 mic positions. Average, and let's see how xt32 did.
Good Evening!
Alright, Audyssey is set to "Reference" on "Multi In + Dolby Surround" mode. Dynamic EQ, and Volume, are turned off. Audyssey LFC is turned off. I will also use -10db.

To answer your previous message, the crossover it selected is 40hz for everything. Which is weird because my in ceiling surrounds are from Monoprice - 6.5" 3-way In-Ceiling 40W speakers. I set the LR to 60hz, center to 80hz, and the surrounds to 100hz. I dont see where you change the LFE in the app so ill do it on the receiver with the remote. Oh, I also turned off the LPF on the sub's DSP.

I found the link to my surrounds - https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_...seq=1&format=2

It lists the crossover at 4.0khz, so I will leave Mid-range correction on.

I loaded the curve to my AVR and confirmed the Subwoofer mode was set to LFE and the LPF for LFE is at 120Hz. I ran the tests in the 5 different locations and averaged the results:
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post #78 of 81 Old 06-10-2019, 06:38 PM
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Good Evening!
Alright, Audyssey is set to "Reference" on "Multi In + Dolby Surround" mode. Dynamic EQ, and Volume, are turned off. Audyssey LFC is turned off. I will also use -10db.

To answer your previous message, the crossover it selected is 40hz for everything. Which is weird because my in ceiling surrounds are from Monoprice - 6.5" 3-way In-Ceiling 40W speakers. I set the LR to 60hz, center to 80hz, and the surrounds to 100hz. I dont see where you change the LFE in the app so ill do it on the receiver with the remote. Oh, I also turned off the LPF on the sub's DSP.

I found the link to my surrounds - https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_...seq=1&format=2

It lists the crossover at 4.0khz, so I will leave Mid-range correction on.

I loaded the curve to my AVR and confirmed the Subwoofer mode was set to LFE and the LPF for LFE is at 120Hz. I ran the tests in the 5 different locations and averaged the results:
All excellent. It's amazing the difference in the LF, huh! We will be able to manipulate that as we please later.

Speaking of later, I have to go dark until Friday or later as I'll be out of town and out of communication. Sorry for any inconvenience.
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post #79 of 81 Old 06-11-2019, 08:00 AM - Thread Starter
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All excellent. It's amazing the difference in the LF, huh! We will be able to manipulate that as we please later.

Speaking of later, I have to go dark until Friday or later as I'll be out of town and out of communication. Sorry for any inconvenience.
It really is! Its MUCH flatter in the frequency range that it will be used.
I need to re-run the tests with the new driver in the sub anyways, so that works out perfect. Have a great trip, and thanks again!
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post #80 of 81 Old 06-30-2019, 09:22 PM - Thread Starter
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All excellent. It's amazing the difference in the LF, huh! We will be able to manipulate that as we please later.

Speaking of later, I have to go dark until Friday or later as I'll be out of town and out of communication. Sorry for any inconvenience.
OH MAN, sorry I've been MIA but I have been busy! I got the new driver for my old sub. I built another sub for the front of the room with the old driver. I added a shelf to extend the shelves one more row near my couch. And THEN I bought a package of mineral wool for $32 and went ballistic making sound panels. I spent forever trying to figure out something that worked in my room... I originally had plans to put more near my hallway but I didn't like how it looked. So I came up with the 4 in my living room and I stuck the two other panels I made in my music room.

So I re-re-ran Audyssey on my iPhone with the new changes to the room. I changed the things Cam Man told me to and sent it to the Denon. I then re-ran REW on the LFE channels, with and without room corrections, and this is what I got. I think it might have been better before I did all this crap Hah! Though, I am happier now that the bass isn't blasting into my left ear as much as it used to*
Thanks guys!
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post #81 of 81 Old 07-08-2019, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jvphotog View Post
OH MAN, sorry I've been MIA but I have been busy! I got the new driver for my old sub. I built another sub for the front of the room with the old driver. I added a shelf to extend the shelves one more row near my couch. And THEN I bought a package of mineral wool for $32 and went ballistic making sound panels. I spent forever trying to figure out something that worked in my room... I originally had plans to put more near my hallway but I didn't like how it looked. So I came up with the 4 in my living room and I stuck the two other panels I made in my music room.

So I re-re-ran Audyssey on my iPhone with the new changes to the room. I changed the things Cam Man told me to and sent it to the Denon. I then re-ran REW on the LFE channels, with and without room corrections, and this is what I got. I think it might have been better before I did all this crap Hah! Though, I am happier now that the bass isn't blasting into my left ear as much as it used to*
Thanks guys!
Now it's my turn to be MIA. Been gone on vacation, and way too buried on return to spend any time here on AVS. I hope to come up for air soon and return.
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