Subwoofer Rut - Help! Polk DSW 660 Pro vs DIY - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 82 Old 05-21-2019, 07:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello all, in need of some advice.

I put a ton of effort into building my HT, except in the subwoofer department. I picked up a Polk DSW Pro 660 about 5 years ago when my old sub died, and it’s been average at best. It’s time to start thinking about replacement. I’ve done a few DIY speaker projects before, and my father in law is a carpenter so I’m think a DIY Sub set up is the way to go.

Room size: 11’ wide x 12’ deep.
Current set up: 7.1.4 via Denon x4400h, Polk rtiA7 fronts, CsiA6 center, Polk RT65 in walls, Polk RC60i in ceiling for Atmos
95% movie content

Yes I enjoy Polks for price/performance and availability in Canada.

Room placement is semi flexible but I don’t have a lot of space. I was originally thinking two V.B.S.S but after reading the forums for the past few days I’m starting to feel overwhelmed with information.

The biggest thing I’d like to improve on is the low end, as the DSW doesn’t seem to give me the bass I can feel. I’ll spend what I need to spend in order to get decent low end, but I’d like to be as cost effective as possible.

I would appreciate any recommendations for a great DIY sub/subs, thanks!

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post #2 of 82 Old 05-21-2019, 07:43 AM
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How big are you willing to go? Displacement is a great thing if you have the space for it. It keeps costs in check and usually has less distortion than throwing lots of power at something smaller. Two VBSS subs are a great place to get started Based on the room size I think they will do nicely.

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post #3 of 82 Old 05-21-2019, 07:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
How big are you willing to go? Displacement is a great thing if you have the space for it. It keeps costs in check and usually has less distortion than throwing lots of power at something smaller. Two VBSS subs are a great place to get started [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG] Based on the room size I think they will do nicely.
I suppose I’m flexible? As long as I could design a box(s) that work with the furniture in my room. I.E. longer and skinny vs more square. I’m good at building, but I’m not so great with knowing how to determine box shape/size 🙂
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post #4 of 82 Old 05-21-2019, 07:57 AM
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https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...alculator.html There is this for calculating the panel sizes for the sub, so you can size it up mostly how you want. Going under 16 inches of depth can complicate things. Have you used WinISD?

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You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
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post #5 of 82 Old 05-21-2019, 08:03 AM
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The 660 is ok, but it can be outmatched easily with DIY (I say this as a Polk Audio fan who owns a MicroPro 2000 myself). Cost to performance is higher, and gets even higher if you can support multiple subs, or large boxes...

Give us some ballpark max dimensions of a box. The depth will help us determine which subs to suggest and the other dimensions will help us figure out single v multiple, ported v sealed, etc.

The larger problem I see is that your room is almost square which can cause issues with cancellation.... but I'm not an expert at that aspect of things.....

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post #6 of 82 Old 05-21-2019, 08:06 AM
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I've had different Polk speakers over the years myself. I'm a fan. Great bang for the buck.

Don't worry about being overwhelmed. It seems that way at first. Keep reading. There's really not much to it.

The easiest thing to do DIY, in my opinion, is a pair of UM18-22 combo packs from Parts Express. They come with an 18" driver and a precut, sealed enclosure that you put together and finish how you want. You just add in an external amplifier and a few doodads (connectors, cables, etc.) and you're set.

If you want to do a little more work (ie. cut the wood yourself), you could certainly build your own box for the UM18 or, a couple of the VBSSs would be great (PA460 driver I think?) for your room.

Ask questions. Everyone on this forum is excited to help out anyone interested in DIY.
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post #7 of 82 Old 05-21-2019, 08:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...alculator.html There is this for calculating the panel sizes for the sub, so you can size it up mostly how you want. Going under 16 inches of depth can complicate things. Have you used WinISD?
I’ll have to play around with that, thanks. No I haven’t used WinISD

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Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
The 660 is ok, but it can be outmatched easily with DIY (I say this as a Polk Audio fan who owns a MicroPro 2000 myself). Cost to performance is higher, and gets even higher if you can support multiple subs, or large boxes...

Give us some ballpark max dimensions of a box. The depth will help us determine which subs to suggest and the other dimensions will help us figure out single v multiple, ported v sealed, etc.

The larger problem I see is that your room is almost square which can cause issues with cancellation.... but I'm not an expert at that aspect of things.....
I’ll take some measurements when I got home tonight, but I can give a ballpark measurement for now.

Ideally I’d like to place one sub behind the recliners, so that gives me about 20 inches deep x 48 inches wide x 30 inches high.

Or if I were to place it in the front or front right I’d be looking at 20-25 inches deep x 50-60 inches wide x 20 inches high.
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post #8 of 82 Old 05-21-2019, 08:15 AM
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I’ll have to play around with that, thanks. No I haven’t used WinISD



I’ll take some measurements when I got home tonight, but I can give a ballpark measurement for now.

Ideally I’d like to place one sub behind the recliners, so that gives me about 20 inches deep x 48 inches wide x 30 inches high.

Or if I were to place it in the front or front right I’d be looking at 20-25 inches deep x 50-60 inches wide x 20 inches high.

The most import piece of information and frustration point when I was learning was getting the driver parameters in. Go mms, cms, re, BL, Sd, xmax, Pe and finally qes or qms. If the Fs, Vas and qts are very close to what is given on the sub woofer TS parameters you should be good Clicking on the unit of measure changes it, that is the other important piece of information.

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post #9 of 82 Old 05-21-2019, 08:21 AM - Thread Starter
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The most import piece of information and frustration point when I was learning was getting the driver parameters in. Go mms, cms, re, BL, Sd, xmax, Pe and finally qes or qms. If the Fs, Vas and qts are very close to what is given on the sub woofer TS parameters you should be good [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG] Clicking on the unit of measure changes it, that is the other important piece of information.
#overwhelmed hahaha!
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post #10 of 82 Old 05-21-2019, 08:28 AM
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#overwhelmed hahaha!

Sorry! It is easier than it sounds after tinkering for a little bit

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You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
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post #11 of 82 Old 05-21-2019, 08:39 AM
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When I see that first pic, I immediately think dual 18s between the L & R with the center sitting on top. How much space is available there while still allowing the center to be slightly below the TV?
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post #12 of 82 Old 05-21-2019, 08:51 AM - Thread Starter
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When I see that first pic, I immediately think dual 18s between the L & R with the center sitting on top. How much space is available there while still allowing the center to be slightly below the TV?
I have since upgraded the TV to be a 75”, so I don’t have much flexibility to move the center up much. For the sake of argument let’s say I build a dual 18 setup with the center on top, I’d say maybe 20”? Would it overwhelming for the viewers seated in the front chairs? Originally I was thinking one up front and one behind the recliners
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post #13 of 82 Old 05-21-2019, 09:00 AM
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How do you think this would fit if you went with a single 18? https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...e-ps-18-a.html

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You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
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post #14 of 82 Old 05-21-2019, 09:25 AM
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My vote is for dual VBSS. My sub progression has been Polk psw505 -> Rythmik fv15hp -> Rythmik FV25hp -> Dual VBSS and a Full Marty. I cant imagine skipping straight to the DIY subs from the Polk. You will be blown away.

Run the VBSS's at one of the lower tunes and if you want even more ulf later add one of the Martys.

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Equipment: Yamaha 3050, Oppo 103d, DIYSG HT12s (L,C,R), PSA mt 110s (SR,SL), 2 VBSS, Submaximus, 4 driver BOSS build, umik-1, Epson 3700
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post #15 of 82 Old 05-21-2019, 09:35 AM
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I am finishing up my build on 2 Picowreckers. 10" Alpine tapped horn
Or you could just go big and do a Lilwrecker. 15" Tapped horn

I would post links but I am too new. Need a few more posts.
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post #16 of 82 Old 05-21-2019, 09:48 AM
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I have a small room also and really didn't want massive subwoofer boxes taking it over, so I built Infinite Baffle subwoofers into the floor. Literally all you see is a heating grate:





This is what is hidden in under those grates:
Advantages: They don't take up any space in the room, they require very little power, they require ZERO box calculations (you literally build a manifold out of some plywood and screw the drivers to it. WinISD can take a leap.) and they provide deeper, cleaner bass than any other type of subwoofer. Dirt cheap for the amount of output you get. I spent $1200 to make two dual-18" manifolds that laugh in the face of any box subwoofers you could build for 4 times that price, never mind buy commercially.



Disadvantages: They are only DIY (but it's dirt-simple DIY, sounds like you have that covered) and you have to cut a hole(s) in your floor/ceiling/wall and have a big space (like a attic or basement) behind that hole for the backwave.


Just something to think about. IB subs don't get mentioned much around here anymore. It seems a wall of boxes and flimsy platforms with vibrators build into them are the new hot things.
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post #17 of 82 Old 05-21-2019, 09:50 AM - Thread Starter
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My vote is for dual VBSS. My sub progression has been Polk psw505 -> Rythmik fv15hp -> Rythmik FV25hp -> Dual VBSS and a Full Marty. I cant imagine skipping straight to the DIY subs from the Polk. You will be blown away.

Run the VBSS's at one of the lower tunes and if you want even more ulf later add one of the Martys.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
Right now I think I’m leaning towards this, as it is affordable and upgradable down the line. If I can design a cabinet that fits my space that is. I do have a bit of WAF to deal with 😉
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#overwhelmed hahaha!
Don't be overwhelmed by that. He's talking about driver parameters so that you can model the driver in software (and customize an enclosure for that driver).

You don't need to do that right now. Just pick an enclosure and driver that people have already simulated to death and built gobs of them and they just work. Go build one or two yourself and enjoy the best bass you've ever heard.

Then later on, after you realize how awesome it is and how easy it was, you'll start to think "what if?" and then you can worry about how to model a driver in a new box of your own design.
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post #20 of 82 Old 05-21-2019, 01:24 PM
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Subwoofer Rut - Help! Polk DSW 660 Pro vs DIY

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they require very little power, they require ZERO box calculations

It seems a wall of boxes and flimsy platforms with vibrators build into them are the new hot things.


I want to address these two items. Firstly, they most definitely require “box” calculations. If you just throw 4 drivers into an adjoining room and not calculate the room size to driver VAS you won’t be doing yourself any good. So, I certainly hope you did that. But, it’s not just as easy as building a manifold and cutting a whole in a wall/floor/ceiling. Just want to make that clear.

As for the second comment. Please, you’re talking about something you know zero about. Yes, I have mini risers with 12” drivers. But, my theater is literally 6 sides of concrete. I have no place to put a hole in the wall to have an IB. So, this “flimsy” riser is a hell of an alternative. It really sounds like you’re assuming everyone has the room/space to have an IB.

DIY is a community about exploring alternative solutions to problems. Not looking down on those solutions.


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post #21 of 82 Old 05-21-2019, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
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How do you think this would fit if you went with a single 18? https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...e-ps-18-a.html
I’m not sure why but I can’t get that link to load? I’ll try on my computer tonight
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post #22 of 82 Old 05-21-2019, 02:47 PM
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I’m not sure why but I can’t get that link to load? I’ll try on my computer tonight
take two.
I cannot get it to work, the symbol used in the title is messing it up. Lookup Cyclops in the search.

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You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
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post #23 of 82 Old 05-21-2019, 04:56 PM
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I’m not sure why but I can’t get that link to load? I’ll try on my computer tonight
Odd, it works for me in Chrome (Linux) and Firefox (Windoze 7)

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post #24 of 82 Old 05-21-2019, 05:22 PM
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Odd, it works for me in Chrome (Linux) and Firefox (Windoze 7)
It tanks in Tapatalk.

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post #25 of 82 Old 05-21-2019, 05:39 PM
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I would build a sub that takes up the space under the TV between the cabinets with 2 x 18" drivers. Essentially 2 Marty cubes side by side built together. You could build the cabinet so it has a "shelf" left for the center to sit in.

Here is a very simple photo shop of what I was thinking. If the space is big enough you could leave space for the mains to sit basically where they are now. I don't have the expertise to tell you how to design the box dimension/port wise but it seems like it would be doable.
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post #26 of 82 Old 05-21-2019, 08:16 PM - Thread Starter
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I would build a sub that takes up the space under the TV between the cabinets with 2 x 18" drivers. Essentially 2 Marty cubes side by side built together. You could build the cabinet so it has a "shelf" left for the center to sit in.

Here is a very simple photo shop of what I was thinking. If the space is big enough you could leave space for the mains to sit basically where they are now. I don't have the expertise to tell you how to design the box dimension/port wise but it seems like it would be doable.

Hmmm that’s not a bad idea. I finally got home and had a chance to measure. Behind the recliners at the back of the room I have the most space. 7 feet wide x 24 inches deep x 36 inches tall.

In the front of the TV I currently only have 6 feet wide x 24 inches deep x 19 inches tall.

If I used your plan I could go higher, but I’d rather not move the towers much as they don’t sound great next to walls. rtiA7s need lots of breathing room unfortunately. I could maybe squeeze a few inches higher with the center
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post #27 of 82 Old 05-21-2019, 08:33 PM - Thread Starter
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I’m not sure why but I can’t get that link to load? I’ll try on my computer tonight
take two.
I cannot get it to work, the symbol used in the title is messing it up. Lookup Cyclops in the search.
Hey I’ve been reading about Cyclops. One of those would definitely fit well in the back of the room.

I know LFE is “non directional”, but would having padded recliners only 6-10 inches in front of the woofer prevent the front row from enjoying the bass as much? Right now the rear of the room just works so well logistically, I could even put a nice top on it and use it to hold snacks. I’m just concerned about acoustics
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post #28 of 82 Old 05-22-2019, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by KevinMRoach View Post
Hmmm that’s not a bad idea. I finally got home and had a chance to measure. Behind the recliners at the back of the room I have the most space. 7 feet wide x 24 inches deep x 36 inches tall.

In the front of the TV I currently only have 6 feet wide x 24 inches deep x 19 inches tall.

If I used your plan I could go higher, but I’d rather not move the towers much as they don’t sound great next to walls. rtiA7s need lots of breathing room unfortunately. I could maybe squeeze a few inches higher with the center
With that much space you could do a pair of Hs-24 in the back and a pair of 18's in the front. You jave lots of potential options.
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post #29 of 82 Old 05-22-2019, 04:26 AM
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Pair of 18's in 4cuft sealed enclosures up front on either side of the center speaker. Easy Peasy.
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post #30 of 82 Old 05-22-2019, 05:29 AM
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Hope someone has mentioned vbss and JBL 8s. That Polk for $600 is why DIY exists. Polk made booku profits on that thing lol.

There's plenty of designs out there, just gotta find one that works. 2 ported 15s would do better.

- 6 BA CR6 array center channel, QSC AD-S82 L/R, 4 jbl 8330a surr , 8 jbl 12" subs w/Inuke 6000. JVC rs420, Denon x4000, Sony x800 -
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