DIY Tapped Horn PicoWrecker Build - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 15Likes
  • 1 Post By 2_liter_ejturbo
  • 8 Post By 2_liter_ejturbo
  • 3 Post By 2_liter_ejturbo
  • 1 Post By autox320
  • 1 Post By lilmike
  • 1 Post By 2_liter_ejturbo
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 16 Old 05-21-2019, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
2_liter_ejturbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 14
DIY Tapped Horn PicoWrecker Build

Hi all

I am new here, though I have lurked in the shadows reading about different options for my build.
Down the rabbit hole, I went. Landing on lilmike's tapped horn designs.

I decided to start my first DIY audio project with 2 Picowreckers. This is going to be an upgrade from my 2 super amazing Polk PSW10's.

I modified the design in CAD to up the waf, needed to make it look more like furniture then a giant wooden box. So far is not perfect but much better then I hoped, for my skill level.
kagtha likes this.
2_liter_ejturbo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 16 Old 05-21-2019, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
2_liter_ejturbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Saved for Pictures
2_liter_ejturbo is offline  
post #3 of 16 Old 05-21-2019, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
2_liter_ejturbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 14
I am using 3/4 Baltic Burch plywood for the outside faces and 3/4 MDF for all the internal flares.
I am still planning on adding trim to the seams to make it look more like furniture. Then I need to choose a stain.

I am very excited to hook these up and listen. Trying to be patient until they are done.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2873.jpg
Views:	57
Size:	114.8 KB
ID:	2569662   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2877.jpg
Views:	66
Size:	61.4 KB
ID:	2569664   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2879.jpg
Views:	58
Size:	160.0 KB
ID:	2569666   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2880.jpg
Views:	57
Size:	131.2 KB
ID:	2569668   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2881.jpg
Views:	67
Size:	71.4 KB
ID:	2569670  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2883.jpg
Views:	57
Size:	89.8 KB
ID:	2569672   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2884.jpg
Views:	63
Size:	72.6 KB
ID:	2569674   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2885.jpg
Views:	53
Size:	78.6 KB
ID:	2569676   Click image for larger version

Name:	CAD Image 2.PNG
Views:	55
Size:	19.9 KB
ID:	2569678   Click image for larger version

Name:	CAD Image 1.PNG
Views:	52
Size:	18.2 KB
ID:	2569680  

2_liter_ejturbo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 16 Old 05-21-2019, 12:08 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Hudsonville, MI
Posts: 162
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 78 Post(s)
Liked: 83
Looking good so far, which drivers and amp are you going with?

--
Epson 2030 - Denon X1300W - Eosone RSF 1000 - Eosone RSC 300 - Eosone RSF 600 - Micca M-8C for ATMOS - 2 @ VBSS End Tables
DIY 110" AT Screen
jevchance is offline  
post #5 of 16 Old 05-21-2019, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
2_liter_ejturbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by jevchance View Post
Looking good so far, which drivers and amp are you going with?
I went with the Alpine S-W10D4 for the drivers, powered by a Behringer NX3000DSP.
I am planning on running the subs at dual 2 ohms load and putting 1 per channel.

Though 1 horn will need to have ~50ft of cable between the amp and the box. I might change to dual 8 ohm loads to ease the load on the long run of cable. We will see, have to test it out.
2_liter_ejturbo is offline  
post #6 of 16 Old 05-28-2019, 10:29 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
2_liter_ejturbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Got to work on these some more. Leak tested them before I started to do any finish work.

Both seem to perform well, Needed to adjust my solution to seal the woofer to the box. Had a lot of chuffing/leakage using the "stock" rubber gasket. I ended up using a closed cell foam, seems to be working ok. Though I do want to make sure there is absolutely no leaking.

The finish I ended up going with is Minwax Honey stain and Poly coat. This was an attempt to match other furniture in the house. I do like the color and how it seems to be coming out but the color ended up being a little browner and not as red and what we were trying to match. eh oh well.

One question I do have is if I should install these binding posts. The idea was to install them in the side of the box to eliminate the need to have a wire coming out of the horn. I know there is a decent amount of pressure in the horn and do not want to cause myself any issue. What do you guys think?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2891.jpg
Views:	45
Size:	106.5 KB
ID:	2572748   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2890.jpg
Views:	39
Size:	106.0 KB
ID:	2572750   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2889.jpg
Views:	41
Size:	87.2 KB
ID:	2572752   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2888.jpg
Views:	43
Size:	87.5 KB
ID:	2572754   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2887.jpg
Views:	41
Size:	78.1 KB
ID:	2572756  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2892.jpg
Views:	45
Size:	84.1 KB
ID:	2572758  
Craig S King, kagtha and Trimlock like this.
2_liter_ejturbo is offline  
post #7 of 16 Old 05-30-2019, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
2_liter_ejturbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Well got the wreckers "finished". Finished adding the poly coat and brought them inside. Installed the Alpine S-W10's and got them hooked up to the NX3000DSP.

I still need to do some work on getting everything dialed in and set up. Still reading and trying to learn what needs to be adjusted using REW and the NX DSP.
My AVR has 2 sub outs but they are tied together, so I will need to adjust everything by hand with the NX3000 DSP.

First impressions, these things dig DEEP compared to the old PSW10's. Not very surprised there. What I am a little surprised is the lack of "punch". These things get loud and they definitely shake the house but I feel like there is something missing. Might just need to be tuned in. Overall I am pleased with how they came out, already looking forward to the next build some DIY sound group LCR and surrounds.

Does anyone have advice on what DIY Sound Group speakers will integrate with these Picowreckers well? I currently have everything in the living room (it is large and open to the dining room and kitchen). I will be moving within the next few years and am planning on finding a house that will allow me to have a "man cave" aka HT room.

Once I get a good mic I will post up some graphs for everyone to enjoy. (ps if anyone has a UMIK-1 or UMM-6 for cheap hit me up)
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2905.jpg
Views:	49
Size:	105.7 KB
ID:	2573424   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2903.jpg
Views:	38
Size:	67.2 KB
ID:	2573426   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2902.jpg
Views:	37
Size:	70.1 KB
ID:	2573428   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2901.jpg
Views:	37
Size:	58.9 KB
ID:	2573430   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2900.jpg
Views:	37
Size:	71.7 KB
ID:	2573432  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2899.jpg
Views:	37
Size:	96.9 KB
ID:	2573434   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2898.jpg
Views:	38
Size:	102.3 KB
ID:	2573436  
2_liter_ejturbo is offline  
post #8 of 16 Old 05-30-2019, 02:25 PM
Advanced Member
 
autox320's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NC
Posts: 618
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked: 122
Those look awesome. You'll like the pico's; very potent lil cabinets.

Double layers of foam tape from parts express on the drivers. Used the Alpine W-S type on the 4 new cabinets and the older type-S on the 2 old cabs.

Stacked ftw in a garage system; insane output box checked.


"dB levels? - Long as can't foam my beer."
autox320 is offline  
post #9 of 16 Old 05-30-2019, 04:46 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
2_liter_ejturbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by autox320 View Post
Those look awesome. You'll like the pico's; very potent lil cabinets.

Double layers of foam tape from parts express on the drivers. Used the Alpine W-S type on the 4 new cabinets and the older type-S on the 2 old cabs.

Stacked ftw in a garage system; insane output box checked.

I read through your thread when you built your new ones before I started. That is crazy. I can't imagine what it does.

I did use the speaker tape from parts express, but only used 1 layer. Maybe il put another layer or use duct sealer. Just wanted something that was removable if I needed it to be.

Are yours a similar experience to a traditional subwoofer? The punch you get from the bass hitting? Might just be my room being large but I was hoping for more.
2_liter_ejturbo is offline  
post #10 of 16 Old 05-31-2019, 05:10 AM
Advanced Member
 
autox320's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NC
Posts: 618
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2_liter_ejturbo View Post
I read through your thread when you built your new ones before I started. That is crazy. I can't imagine what it does.

I did use the speaker tape from parts express, but only used 1 layer. Maybe il put another layer or use duct sealer. Just wanted something that was removable if I needed it to be.

Are yours a similar experience to a traditional subwoofer? The punch you get from the bass hitting? Might just be my room being large but I was hoping for more.

Could be room size, but. . . these little 10" TH subs come on when on the power/volume level to couple (front wave + back wave working together). Low to medium listen levels they kinda just cruise and sound nice and very clean. When up the juice they definitely have a Jekyll and Hyde personality.

If only two on a inuke3000 all I can say is make sure you wire up for 2 ohms per channel. Assuming thats about 750rms/ch should put into the realm I'm talking. When I was running just 2 cabinets I kept wired at 4 ohms on a ep4000 which is about 950rms/ch. They rocked plenty.

Stick a HPF at 17-20hz if notice any low end issues, they will unload with some single digit content.


edit: PE shows the inuke3k can do 680 rms/ch at 4ohm should be good there too.

Know where the output of your receiver clips the amp. Cheap way is connect a tweeter speaker to the output of the amp and turn up volume till hear a tone when playing 40hz 0db track.

"dB levels? - Long as can't foam my beer."

Last edited by autox320; 05-31-2019 at 05:16 AM.
autox320 is offline  
post #11 of 16 Old 05-31-2019, 08:56 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
2_liter_ejturbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by autox320 View Post
Could be room size, but. . . these little 10" TH subs come on when on the power/volume level to couple (front wave + back wave working together). Low to medium listen levels they kinda just cruise and sound nice and very clean. When up the juice they definitely have a Jekyll and Hyde personality.

If only two on a inuke3000 all I can say is make sure you wire up for 2 ohms per channel. Assuming thats about 750rms/ch should put into the realm I'm talking. When I was running just 2 cabinets I kept wired at 4 ohms on a ep4000 which is about 950rms/ch. They rocked plenty.

Stick a HPF at 17-20hz if notice any low end issues, they will unload with some single digit content.


edit: PE shows the inuke3k can do 680 rms/ch at 4ohm should be good there too.

Know where the output of your receiver clips the amp. Cheap way is connect a tweeter speaker to the output of the amp and turn up volume till hear a tone when playing 40hz 0db track.
So I actually got to do some listening/testing last night. You are in fact right about these wreckers. Music at low/medium levels is butter smooth and the sound is fantastic. At high volumes and the gain turned up a little for a high LFE scene they were amazing. Literally rocking the house, and they were not even up as far as they could go. The fiance is not a base head (unlike me) and she likes these a lot more for listening to music because they are so smooth sounding.

I do have a limiter on the inuke at ~705W to try and keep the speaker from letting out the magic smoke. I can probably bump this up a little. Highpass filter was at 24hz now they are at 20hz. They are wired for 2 Ohms and each has a dedicated channel on the inuke. Really need to get my UMIK-1 in to see what everything is doing. I did run some sweeps with my YPOA mic and had to turn the volume down because the subs were clipping the mic.

I think ultimately the smoothness was throwing me off due to what I am used to hearing. I also think my old "subs" were more of mid base modules and were covering up the shortfalls of my LCR. Now they are not connected and they are lacking a little in the midbass. Will just need to add more speakers, maybe some nearfield behind the couch.

Overall I am super happy with how these have transformed my HT. I am already scratching to get some DIY sound group speakers to pair up with the Picowreckers.
2_liter_ejturbo is offline  
post #12 of 16 Old 05-31-2019, 09:07 AM
Advanced Member
 
autox320's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NC
Posts: 618
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2_liter_ejturbo View Post
So I actually got to do some listening/testing last night. You are in fact right about these wreckers. Music at low/medium levels is butter smooth and the sound is fantastic. At high volumes and the gain turned up a little for a high LFE scene they were amazing. Literally rocking the house, and they were not even up as far as they could go. The fiance is not a base head (unlike me) and she likes these a lot more for listening to music because they are so smooth sounding.

I do have a limiter on the inuke at ~705W to try and keep the speaker from letting out the magic smoke. I can probably bump this up a little. Highpass filter was at 24hz now they are at 20hz. They are wired for 2 Ohms and each has a dedicated channel on the inuke. Really need to get my UMIK-1 in to see what everything is doing. I did run some sweeps with my YPOA mic and had to turn the volume down because the subs were clipping the mic.

I think ultimately the smoothness was throwing me off due to what I am used to hearing. I also think my old "subs" were more of mid base modules and were covering up the shortfalls of my LCR. Now they are not connected and they are lacking a little in the midbass. Will just need to add more speakers, maybe some nearfield behind the couch.

Overall I am super happy with how these have transformed my HT. I am already scratching to get some DIY sound group speakers to pair up with the Picowreckers.


Sweet. If want ideas can copy my sho-10 clones. They are essentially like the HTM-10/Fusion 10. My suggestion though, if can get them just buy and build HTM-10 or Fusion10's from diysoundgroup. You can thank me later. They pair very well with just about any bass setup.

In my garage its more than awesome 2ch setup paired with even the 6 picos on demos. The high sensitivity tops keep up with high sensitivity subs.....imagine that

"dB levels? - Long as can't foam my beer."
autox320 is offline  
post #13 of 16 Old 05-31-2019, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
2_liter_ejturbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by autox320 View Post
Sweet. If want ideas can copy my sho-10 clones. They are essentially like the HTM-10/Fusion 10. My suggestion though, if can get them just buy and build HTM-10 or Fusion10's from diysoundgroup. You can thank me later. They pair very well with just about any bass setup.

In my garage its more than awesome 2ch setup paired with even the 6 picos on demos. The high sensitivity tops keep up with high sensitivity subs.....imagine that
What kind of demos do you do in the garage and it must be built pretty well!

If I wasn't supposed to be saving for a wedding I would have already ordered some. I do need to find someone close to the Portland area that has something close that I can listen to.
I am leaning towards the HT-10 or HTM-10 for LCR and some volts (not sure what size) for surrounds and possibly atmos. Not sure how the waf for speaker boxes on the ceiling of the living room is yet.
2_liter_ejturbo is offline  
post #14 of 16 Old 05-31-2019, 12:26 PM
Advanced Member
 
autox320's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NC
Posts: 618
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2_liter_ejturbo View Post
What kind of demos do you do in the garage and it must be built pretty well!

If I wasn't supposed to be saving for a wedding I would have already ordered some. I do need to find someone close to the Portland area that has something close that I can listen to.
I am leaning towards the HT-10 or HTM-10 for LCR and some volts (not sure what size) for surrounds and possibly atmos. Not sure how the waf for speaker boxes on the ceiling of the living room is yet.

Mostly alcohol induced party mode with friends and music. Garage is actually 3 walls under ground and concrete forms with insulation foam board then drywall finished for fire code. Yeah it handles it and ridiculous fun. I run it to just under the clip lights on the amp for up to 20min bursts due to using the quieter fan mod. If using stock fan could run hours like our upstairs HT system.

The HTM-10 and any surrounds even coax volts for surrounds and atmo would be enough. HTM-10 all around would be more than plenty IMO. People have said before once use SEOS the size just gives very small bumps over each other. The 10" version is a lot of upgrade steps over any box store and consumer made offerings.

Diysoundgroup is honestly one place you could pull the trigger blindly and won't be disappointed on a purchase. Plenty here would back me on this. Listening differences to HTM sizes are minuscule . Just save and buy no worries, ask anyone here.

Enjoy the picos man, they definitely don't get enough credit. Most go for microwreckers using the 15" but a pair of picos are better sounding for much LESS footprint IMO. Mine are club style with the duratex coating. Yours are beautiful to go with the wood look for a listening room.
2_liter_ejturbo likes this.

"dB levels? - Long as can't foam my beer."
autox320 is offline  
post #15 of 16 Old 06-01-2019, 10:16 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lilmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 2,358
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 108 Post(s)
Liked: 278
Nice looking builds. Glad to see a few more Picos out there. Those are the nicest looking ones I am aware of.

To answer the binding posts question? As long as they go through the side into the horn mouth (the large opening where the driver sits) you should be OK. That is a lower-pressure region of the cabinet and binding posts are fine. Do not drill into the throat end (small side).

Presuming that the cabinets are right, their placement may be causing your lack of impact, that looks like a tough room. Once you get your mic, measure things and see what you have. Measure both cabinets nearfield (mic right at the mouth of the horn) at the same level without any processing to verify that they match before starting to dial in any EQ. Any deviations in frequency response suggest a difference between cabinets that may be due to leaks or construction errors. As far as EQ? I recommend only cuts, you'll never fill a room-related null with boost, you will just clip the amp or smoke the driver. Highpass is a good idea, set it 4th order at 20 Hz.

Without a mic you can trust, any sort of EQ is a guess. Sort of like going to the range then shooting with your eyes closed.

I'll second autox320's comment about the options at DIYSG. I have yet to be disappointed in anything I have listened to from DIYSG, but that sample size is not that large. I've only heard Tempests, Sentinels and the Volt 10s, but I liked them all.
2_liter_ejturbo likes this.
lilmike is offline  
post #16 of 16 Old 06-01-2019, 10:23 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
2_liter_ejturbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Got my umik-1 yesterday afternoon and decided to take some measurements and see what I have going on.

I took a measurement at the horn opening on each Picowrecker. I was at least pleased with how consistent they ended up being.

Then I started taking measurements at the listening position. Looks like I had some major issues, Picos were out of phase and had a MASSIVE null from 60-80 Hz. which is what I was hearing and didn't like. I ended up just spinning one of the Picos 180 and seemed to fix most of the null.

I also applied some EQ on the dsp to see if I can flatten out the response, need to watch some movie sense to see if I want to add the lower end bass back in. (I probably will)


After tuning these up they sound significantly better with music. All the bits i was missing are back!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Near Field Port Measurement.jpg
Views:	25
Size:	51.8 KB
ID:	2574486   Click image for larger version

Name:	Out of Phase.jpg
Views:	26
Size:	49.6 KB
ID:	2574488   Click image for larger version

Name:	In phase.jpg
Views:	26
Size:	50.9 KB
ID:	2574490   Click image for larger version

Name:	1 pico turned 180.jpg
Views:	27
Size:	51.7 KB
ID:	2574492   Click image for larger version

Name:	All 3 phase and rotation correction.jpg
Views:	27
Size:	66.7 KB
ID:	2574494  

lilmike likes this.
2_liter_ejturbo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off