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-   -   B&C 21ds115 Horn recommendation (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/3069148-b-c-21ds115-horn-recommendation.html)

Zallou3 05-23-2019 01:53 PM

B&C 21ds115 Horn recommendation
 
Evening lovely people
got myself a B&C 21ds115 and wondering which enclosure is most suitable for it, was checking the G-horn, HZ horn as tapped horns, and the submaximus as a Front loaded Horn. but since all these enclosures were designed for completely different drivers i'm not sure if they're the best pick for this B&C.
I'm trying to avoid designing and folding a horn..
what advantages to Tapped horns have over front loaded besides the smaller size? and can you guys recommend me the best enclosures that i can use?
Size is NOT an issue.
Build simplicity is always preferred,but again NOT an issue.
would like to be flat down to 15-16 hz if possible.
already have 6 FLH with an f3 of 16 hz in my 2000 cubic foot room and hoping to place this horn nearfield.

hd0823 05-23-2019 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zallou3 (Post 58089994)
Evening lovely people

got myself a B&C 21ds115 and wondering which enclosure is most suitable for it, was checking the G-horn, HZ horn as tapped horns, and the submaximus as a Front loaded Horn. but since all these enclosures were designed for completely different drivers i'm not sure if they're the best pick for this B&C.

I'm trying to avoid designing and folding a horn..

what advantages to Tapped horns have over front loaded besides the smaller size? and can you guys recommend me the best enclosures that i can use?

Size is NOT an issue.

Build simplicity is always preferred,but again NOT an issue.

would like to be flat down to 15-16 hz if possible.

already have 6 FLH with an f3 of 16 hz in my 2000 cubic foot room and hoping to place this horn nearfield.

I actually have 4 submaximus v3s with bc21ds115s in them and the output is jaw dropping and I haven't even came close to tapping in to there full potential. Also the quality of the distortion less bass is great

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

notnyt 05-23-2019 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zallou3 (Post 58089994)
Evening lovely people
got myself a B&C 21ds115 and wondering which enclosure is most suitable for it, was checking the G-horn, HZ horn as tapped horns, and the submaximus as a Front loaded Horn. but since all these enclosures were designed for completely different drivers i'm not sure if they're the best pick for this B&C.
I'm trying to avoid designing and folding a horn..
what advantages to Tapped horns have over front loaded besides the smaller size? and can you guys recommend me the best enclosures that i can use?
Size is NOT an issue.
Build simplicity is always preferred,but again NOT an issue.
would like to be flat down to 15-16 hz if possible.
already have 6 FLH with an f3 of 16 hz in my 2000 cubic foot room and hoping to place this horn nearfield.

skram

http://data-bass.ipbhost.com/topic/7...bwoofer-files/

hd0823 05-23-2019 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notnyt (Post 58090088)

I also believe a few guys used them in the skhorn even though it was designed for the ipal

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notnyt 05-23-2019 02:17 PM

Yeah, honestly I'd make something a bit larger so you don't have to drop down to a single port to get a low tune, but keep similar design.

Jk7.2 05-23-2019 02:26 PM

B&C 21ds115 Horn recommendation
 
Wow. Your really going for it! Nearfield 21” horn. [emoji1374]
I would say lately, the devastator lfe is being designed and works great with the B&C woofer. I’ve also heard them in 4 V3’s, and 4 slot ported 20cf cabs. Those setups are insane. In a good way that I am in love with. Any of the above options will beat you literally to death nearfield.

Funny story, I was demoing Jeremy’s V3’s, and he had John Wick on, I thought the gun fight was over, stuck my head into the mouth area of the V3’s, and another shot was fired. I pooped my pants and jumped a mile high. Lol those drivers are very impressive. @hd0823
Edit: I see you beat me to this thread.

notfastenough 05-23-2019 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notnyt (Post 58090116)
Yeah, honestly I'd make something a bit larger so you don't have to drop down to a single port to get a low tune, but keep similar design.


Would that be the LFE version of the Devastator?

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...l#post58074988

notnyt 05-23-2019 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jk7.2 (Post 58090152)
Wow. Your really going for it! Nearfield 21” horn. [emoji1374]
I would say lately, the devastator lfe is being designed and works great with the B&C woofer. I’ve also heard them in 4 V3’s, and 4 slot ported 20cf cabs. Those setups are insane. In a good way that I am in love with. Any of the above options will beat you literally to death nearfield.

Funny story, I was demoing Jeremy’s V3’s, and he had John Wick on, I thought the gun fight was over, stuck my head into the mouth area of the V3’s, and another shot was fired. I pooped my pants and jumped a mile high. Lol those drivers are very impressive. @hd0823
Edit: I see you beat me to this thread.

That was it, couldn't remember. I knew there was another one after the skram.


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...l#post58074988

notnyt 05-23-2019 02:33 PM

If space is an issue you can probably also get away without front loading and just put it in a ported enclosure. The efficiency up top with these is crazy. Just re-read your post and you said size wasn't an issue, but if you want to go simple, just toss it in a ported box tuned where you want.

I just setup 4 of the 21ds115s in a room recently, came out awesome.. https://imgur.com/Bn5zAzY

Red Five 05-23-2019 02:38 PM

The kinks are worked out of the Devastator LFE, I am planning on building one in the not too distant future. A 21DS115 just ported is an impressive subwoofer. Just the single driver in 11cuft 18Hz tune makes me worry about my projector, the room is 6000cuft. There really is not a way to screw up, anything you choose will be awesome! [emoji41]

Edit: I would look for something with a lower tune, at least 20Hz, lower would be ideal.

Zallou3 05-23-2019 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hd0823 (Post 58090074)
I actually have 4 submaximus v3s with bc21ds115s in them and the output is jaw dropping and I haven't even came close to tapping in to there full potential. Also the quality of the distortion less bass is great

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Awesome! thank you for the feedback
will post some comparisons between the submaximus and some other designs and see who's king

Zallou3 05-23-2019 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notnyt (Post 58090116)
Yeah, honestly I'd make something a bit larger so you don't have to drop down to a single port to get a low tune, but keep similar design.

so basically the devastator LFE is an improved version of the Skram?

notnyt 05-23-2019 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zallou3 (Post 58090432)
so basically the devastator LFE is an improved version of the Skram?

not better, just different. It's tuned lower

Zallou3 05-23-2019 03:43 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jk7.2 (Post 58090152)
Wow. Your really going for it! Nearfield 21” horn. [emoji1374]
I would say lately, the devastator lfe is being designed and works great with the B&C woofer. I’ve also heard them in 4 V3’s, and 4 slot ported 20cf cabs. Those setups are insane. In a good way that I am in love with. Any of the above options will beat you literally to death nearfield.

Funny story, I was demoing Jeremy’s V3’s, and he had John Wick on, I thought the gun fight was over, stuck my head into the mouth area of the V3’s, and another shot was fired. I pooped my pants and jumped a mile high. Lol those drivers are very impressive. @hd0823
Edit: I see you beat me to this thread.

Awesome story! Going to Get John wick and try that scene.
i Simulated both submaximus and the devastastor LFE ,will attach the screenshot
what's your preferance between them two?
Black line submaximus, Light grey Devastator

Zallou3 05-23-2019 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Five (Post 58090230)
The kinks are worked out of the Devastator LFE, I am planning on building one in the not too distant future. A 21DS115 just ported is an impressive subwoofer. Just the single driver in 11cuft 18Hz tune makes me worry about my projector, the room is 6000cuft. There really is not a way to screw up, anything you choose will be awesome! [emoji41]

Edit: I would look for something with a lower tune, at least 20Hz, lower would be ideal.

are you familiar with any design tuned lower that 20hz?? and thank you for chiming in!

Red Five 05-23-2019 03:52 PM

The Devastator was a horn John designed after I asked a few questions on a similar design for a PA460. It is a little larger than a full Marty which offered flexibility in most spaces. Tune is 18.8Hz on that sub. www.gsgad.com should have the flat pack out soon for it if reduced work is of interest.

The LFE added volume on the rear chamber just to push up the left corner. Tune is 19.1Hz calculated. The external volume is 29.75ft3, so less than a big horn and two can usually fit side by side under an AT screen. Both have good useable bandwidth :)

Red Five 05-23-2019 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zallou3 (Post 58090580)
are you familiar with any design tuned lower that 20hz?? and thank you for chiming in!

An LFE can easily be tuned lower if desired :) The v1 has a lower port velocity than the LFE. Plugging a port will put you close to 15Hz on the v1. The LFE will chuff more if you do that, again tune is down 3.5 to 2.5 Hz if memory serves me.

Edit: Flared horns as discussed in another thread will start getting a resonance in a part of the pass band you might want to use once they get tuned low. Sub Max v3 is the one you will probably be the most interested in. I haven't played with the LOWARHORN in Hornresp yet, there is a 23Hz 21DS115 horn you can look up.

Red Five 05-23-2019 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zallou3 (Post 58090570)
Awesome story! Going to Get John wick and try that scene.

i Simulated both submaximus and the devastastor LFE ,will attach the screenshot

what's your preferance between them two?

Black line submaximus, Light grey Devastator

Click on Le on the input window until it is red for a 21DS115. It is a little bit more accurate. Check the first post of the Devastator thread, John had the inputs of the sub very locked in. Also, he has overlays of measurements vs his sim.

Zallou3 05-23-2019 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Five (Post 58090622)
An LFE can easily be tuned lower if desired :) The v1 has a lower port velocity than the LFE. Plugging a port will put you close to 15Hz on the v1. The LFE will chuff more if you do that, again tune is down 3.5 to 2.5 Hz if memory serves me.

Edit: Flared horns as discussed in another thread will start getting a resonance in a part of the pass band you might want to use once they get tuned low. Sub Max v3 is the one you will probably be the most interested in. I haven't played with the LOWARHORN in Hornresp yet, there is a 23Hz 21DS115 horn you can look up.

greatly helpful thank you, i am pretty interested in submaximus and the simulations in hornresp and outperforming other subs, using one nearfield should be pretty amazing:D

Red Five 05-23-2019 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zallou3 (Post 58090672)
greatly helpful thank you, i am pretty interested in submaximus and the simulations in hornresp and outperforming other subs, using one nearfield should be pretty amazing:D

Devastator end tables have crossed my mind on an occasion. :D

hd0823 05-23-2019 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zallou3 (Post 58090672)
greatly helpful thank you, i am pretty interested in submaximus and the simulations in hornresp and outperforming other subs, using one nearfield should be pretty amazing:D

One nearfield would be very intense to say the least.my four sit about 12ft from the front row. I'll be following to see what you decide you'll be the only other person I believe with a submaximus v3 with a 21

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Jk7.2 05-23-2019 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hd0823 (Post 58090844)
One nearfield would be very intense to say the least.my four sit about 12ft from the front row. I'll be following to see what you decide you'll be the only other person I believe with a submaximus v3 with a 21

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk



I think he should come to our gtg and experience your setup. Sitting in front of the V3’s mouth is unbearable. Nearfield would be hard to take for an entire movie, even at low levels.

Craig S King 05-23-2019 07:16 PM

What are the external dimensions of the submaximus? When loaded with a driver, any idea what it weighs? And what kind of power do you need to throw at it to have fun?

Jk7.2 05-23-2019 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig S King (Post 58091288)
What are the external dimensions of the submaximus? When loaded with a driver, any idea what it weighs? And what kind of power do you need to throw at it to have fun?



They are huge. Here’s me with one of Jeremy’s https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...649b33a0f5.jpg

hd0823 05-23-2019 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig S King (Post 58091288)
What are the external dimensions of the submaximus? When loaded with a driver, any idea what it weighs? And what kind of power do you need to throw at it to have fun?

There 36 deep 25.5 wide and 80 tall guessing weight is around 300 lbs. 5 sheets of wood plus driver each.

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hd0823 05-23-2019 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jk7.2 (Post 58091230)
I think he should come to our gtg and experience your setup. Sitting in front of the V3’s mouth is unbearable. Nearfield would be hard to take for an entire movie, even at low levels.

Yeah it would be to intense for most people

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Craig S King 05-23-2019 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hd0823 (Post 58091374)
There 36 deep 25.5 wide and 80 tall guessing weight is around 300 lbs. 5 sheets of wood plus driver each.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Ok. I knew they were huge, but just curious whether or not they fit through doorways or if they have to be assembled it place.



What kind of power for a single submaximus?

Zallou3 05-24-2019 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hd0823 (Post 58090844)
One nearfield would be very intense to say the least.my four sit about 12ft from the front row. I'll be following to see what you decide you'll be the only other person I believe with a submaximus v3 with a 21

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Do you have any measurements for the four in your room? are you peaking 130 db at 20 hz? how big is your room btw?
My room is made of concrete and the tactile response isn't as huge as i like it to be, my horns peak at 130 db at some places but doesn't do it below 30hz,
the submaximus nearfield should increase the tactile response and give me a significant SPL boost, it's either nearfield or 2.5 meters in front of me

Zallou3 05-24-2019 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hd0823 (Post 58091374)
There 36 deep 25.5 wide and 80 tall guessing weight is around 300 lbs. 5 sheets of wood plus driver each.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

was checking the submaximus thread and john said it's doable with 4 sheets of wood, or is it not?

hd0823 05-24-2019 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zallou3 (Post 58091958)
Do you have any measurements for the four in your room? are you peaking 130 db at 20 hz? how big is your room btw?

My room is made of concrete and the tactile response isn't as huge as i like it to be, my horns peak at 130 db at some places but doesn't do it below 30hz,

the submaximus nearfield should increase the tactile response and give me a significant SPL boost, it's either nearfield or 2.5 meters in front of me

No I'll have to get some but I'm guessing its gotta be right there or higher. My rooms rather large. Counting the area behind the baffle wall its 32x18x10

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