21" Slim Nearfield 7.8cu ft Build with LaVoce SAN214.50 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 95Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 117 Old 06-17-2019, 04:33 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Sekosche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,246
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1375 Post(s)
Liked: 3372
21" Slim Nearfield 7.8cu ft Build with LaVoce SAN214.50

Edit: changed final build to a 10cu ft Coffin tuned 19Hz, too late to rename the thread title! Doh

Well, it's that time of year again to build another sub. I decided to replace my current 15" nearfield drivers with a single and lower tuned 21" pro audio driver that seems to be all the rage these days. For father's day, I ordered the LaVoce SAN214.50 21" and a gallon of duratex for less than $500 using the $50 off coupon: https://www.parts-express.com/lavoce...8-ohm--293-732

@Ricci finished his testing recently of this driver, and he said "at the current street price it represents an outstanding value." To me, it appears to be almost identical to the 21" B&C 21DS115 for $140-225 less (currently on sale for only $375 on PE!). Unfortunately, the only SAN214.50 available for sale is 8ohm (LaVoce website states they're built in 4ohm or 8ohm but not finding any yet), but that's OK, because I won't need 1700watts pounding me in the back anyway. I'll be powering it with an iNuke 6K, so should get a good 800-1,000w into an 8ohm load. I modeled it with 1,000w at 18" distance from the driver if you're curious why the SPL graph is so high, but will likely never run it anywhere near that loud.

I played with winISD a while to get these measurements and box sizes down to something more manageable to replace the two slim boxes behind my couch that @LTD02 helped design only a year ago (they still rock John!). Everything seems to be a solid fit for excursion, port velocity, amp load, signal shaping and and final tuning for the box size. There’s probably a little more that could be done, but I’m pretty happy with the results.

Also, without flush mounting on the double baffle, the driver will only have 1.5" of clearance from the port back wall in such a slim box. For the final dimensions, I also took a little more than half the port width, which was 11”, off the port length from the WinISD estimation to account for the back wall. Hopefully everything checks out.

Edit: changed final build to a 10cu ft box.

I'm excited to start this build in the coming weeks! The driver arrives Wednesday. Cab will be 72”x24”x16” to replace these:

Thanks @Red Five for these mock-ups!


Any questions or concerns regarding my build?

That’s a big thirsty driver!



Cab coming along:



Red is the LaVoce SAN214.50 21" tuned to 19Hz in 10 cu ft with EQ, yellow is 20Hz tune same cab different EQ, and green is the current nearfield RSS390HO-4 15" tuned 22Hz in 3.2 cu ft cabs. Depending on which EQ configuration I go with post calibration shown in the two SPL graphs, The Coffin will have a ton more output at both ends of the spectrum than my current 15” driver; I have two 15” drivers behind the couch now though spread out, so even subtracting 3-4dB for the second sub, it’s still a pretty killer upgrade across the bandwidth at only 60% power to the 21” LaVoce.Click image for larger version

Name:	san 214.50 coffin 10 cu ft cutlist.jpg
Views:	24
Size:	256.1 KB
ID:	2584976
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	SAN214.50 10CU FT VS 390 SPL EQ Comparisons.jpg
Views:	46
Size:	261.3 KB
ID:	2582692   Click image for larger version

Name:	SAN214.50 10CU FT VS 390 SPL Comparisons.jpg
Views:	30
Size:	248.7 KB
ID:	2582694   Click image for larger version

Name:	SAN214.50 10CU FT VS 390 SPL EQ Port Velocity.jpg
Views:	30
Size:	251.4 KB
ID:	2582698   Click image for larger version

Name:	SAN214.50 10CU FT VS 390 SPL EQ Cone Excursion.jpg
Views:	31
Size:	301.0 KB
ID:	2582706  
LTD02, SBuger, Ricci and 3 others like this.

Speakers: PSA MTM-210T x2, MTM-210C, MT-110SR x2; Atmos-SVS Satellite x2, DIY Volt-10 x2
Subs: PSA V1801 x2, DIY: 18" RSS460HO, 15" RSS390HO x2, BOSS w/JBL CX1200 x6
MA’s: Crowson Tech x2
Processing: Denon X4200, NU6KDSP, 3KDSP
Video: Epson 3700; Screen: Silver Ticket 106" High Contrast

Last edited by Sekosche; Today at 06:29 PM.
Sekosche is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 117 Old 06-17-2019, 04:43 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
keeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,713
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 601 Post(s)
Liked: 247
I’ll be following this for sure.
Sekosche likes this.
keeper is offline  
post #3 of 117 Old 06-18-2019, 12:08 AM
Advanced Member
 
SpinMonster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 946
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 487 Post(s)
Liked: 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post

Any questions or concerns regarding my build?
Do you have a build thread or can you describe the sub system the couch is sitting on? It looks like a platform/riser with bass.
Sekosche likes this.
SpinMonster is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 117 Old 06-18-2019, 01:12 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Nalleh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Norway
Posts: 3,452
Mentioned: 274 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2402 Post(s)
Liked: 3131
Awsome, this should be great

In the Winisd pic, is the green curve for 2 of the 15", or pr driver?

If it is for 2, then the 21" should be a pretty big improvement
Sekosche likes this.

Dual Atmos Receivers - Atmos 13.1.8/DTS X 9.1.8/Auro 3D 13.1 - Denon AVCX8500H+AVRX7200WA - Klipsch+KEF - 6xSI18" - 8xJBL 12" BOSS - 4xJBL 12" w/SLAPS M12" VNF - 3x2 stacked Crowson MA - 4xBK-LFE - 6xNU6K(fan&trig mod) - Minidsp 10x10HD - Oppo UDP203 - XBox OneX - Apple TV4K - JVC RS600 Dreamscreen V2 120"- Philips 65OLED873.
Nalleh’s HT
Nalleh is online now  
post #5 of 117 Old 06-18-2019, 01:23 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Sekosche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,246
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1375 Post(s)
Liked: 3372
21" Slim Nearfield 7.8cu ft Build with LaVoce SAN214.50

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinMonster View Post
Do you have a build thread or can you describe the sub system the couch is sitting on? It looks like a platform/riser with bass.
It’s a BOSS platform for added tactile bass, similar to what motion actuators or bass shakers add, but significantly more bang for the buck and incredibly natural for the amount of tactile ULF energy they add. I highly recommend trying it!

Here’s my build thread for the BOSS platform and the main thread for that awesome little invention. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...a-drivers.html

The main BOSS thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...1407854?page=3

I should probably make a theater thread for myself one of these days; I also have a handful of build threads floating out there for my DIY speaker and subwoofer builds.

Speakers: PSA MTM-210T x2, MTM-210C, MT-110SR x2; Atmos-SVS Satellite x2, DIY Volt-10 x2
Subs: PSA V1801 x2, DIY: 18" RSS460HO, 15" RSS390HO x2, BOSS w/JBL CX1200 x6
MA’s: Crowson Tech x2
Processing: Denon X4200, NU6KDSP, 3KDSP
Video: Epson 3700; Screen: Silver Ticket 106" High Contrast

Last edited by Sekosche; 06-18-2019 at 02:52 AM.
Sekosche is online now  
post #6 of 117 Old 06-18-2019, 02:13 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Sekosche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,246
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1375 Post(s)
Liked: 3372
21" Slim Nearfield 7.8cu ft Build with LaVoce SAN214.50

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
Awsome, this should be great



In the Winisd pic, is the green curve for 2 of the 15", or pr driver?



If it is for 2, then the 21" should be a pretty big improvement
Thanks, I bet it will be awesome!

The green line just represents one of the current 15” nearfield subs, and I originally modeled them combined, but the second one is another meter away, so I wanted a direct comparison for the potential driver force behind me, could add a couple dB and it’s still an huge improvement, especially below the higher tuning of the 15” subs. And this is still with only providing 60% of the max power to the LaVoce while the current sub is tapped out, so the 21” should just be cruising along. Crazy that a 21” driver’s cone area is double that of a 15”; I had a compact 15” Cerwin Vega sealed sub when I was a kid, and most people thought it was just massive...my how times have changed.

The current nearfields are pretty dang potent but tuned a tad higher than I’d like (I really have to find a reason not to like them); I’m partly just wanting to try something new and to experience one of these huge 21” Neo drivers and their ultra low distortion.

I’m already thinking about adding another cubic foot or two to the box design in progress, but I really don’t want a massive 6-7’ long and skinny 200lb+ cabinet that will be very awkward to handle (but it’s not like I’ll be moving it often). Like most cabs tuned below 20Hz, these drivers really shine in 12-15+ cu ft enclosures, which is way too big for my space, so I’m trying to find a happy medium for size, weight, output, and WAF not having it be double the size of the last pair combined which are 6.4 cu ft net., could potentially squeeze 9-10cu ft out max and call it a day. Will model some more tomorrow.

This morning I nearly cancelled my driver order to buy the B&C 21DS115 instead, so I could give it a full channel of iNuke 6K power into 4ohms, but figured the $140 savings can basically build this entire cab and still get me some “decent” output for nearfield, and it wouldn’t let me reuse the $50 coupon code so didn’t want to hassle with calling customer support. Not starting this build for another day or two, so I might get a wild hair and order the B&C anyway, may also swap 18” drivers in the Marty cube too.

I had my HVAC guy out to fix a leak today, and he asked me to demo my system since he noticed changes from last year and he was big into car audio when he was younger. I just played a few quick YouTube bass videos, but he actually said it was a life changing experience for him, lol, so that was pretty awesome! None of my friends really appreciate bass, so I don’t get to demo it very often. It did bring a smile to my face and made me think about how great the current setup still is.
SBuger and Nalleh like this.

Speakers: PSA MTM-210T x2, MTM-210C, MT-110SR x2; Atmos-SVS Satellite x2, DIY Volt-10 x2
Subs: PSA V1801 x2, DIY: 18" RSS460HO, 15" RSS390HO x2, BOSS w/JBL CX1200 x6
MA’s: Crowson Tech x2
Processing: Denon X4200, NU6KDSP, 3KDSP
Video: Epson 3700; Screen: Silver Ticket 106" High Contrast

Last edited by Sekosche; 06-18-2019 at 02:59 AM.
Sekosche is online now  
post #7 of 117 Old 06-18-2019, 05:41 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
chadsmith013's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Jax, Florida
Posts: 3,628
Mentioned: 63 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2115 Post(s)
Liked: 2140
been waiting for a build thread on one of these subs...sub'd.
Sekosche likes this.

Receiver : Pioneer Elite SC-95
Front Speakers: 3 DIYSG 1099's
Surround Speakers:2 DIYSG Volt 10's Atmos: 2 DIYSG Volt 6's
Subwoofers: Dual LaVoce SAN214.50 21's in Cyclops enclosures w/Inuke 6000 DSP
Nearfield: 2 Dayton HO 15's w/Inuke 6000DSP
chadsmith013 is offline  
post #8 of 117 Old 06-18-2019, 01:03 PM
Advanced Member
 
Red Five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 784
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 385 Post(s)
Liked: 433
A 21" near field



Does it have an ejection seat mode? That would bolster the wife approval factor when it comes time for doing stuff around the house.
Sekosche likes this.

Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | B.M.D. (in progress)
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen
Red Five is online now  
post #9 of 117 Old 06-18-2019, 01:09 PM
Advanced Member
 
BP1Fanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Columbus, Oh
Posts: 580
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 203 Post(s)
Liked: 170
Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
I'm excited to start this build in the coming weeks! The driver arrives Wednesday. Cab will be 60”x24”x16”

Any questions or concerns regarding my build?

Red is the LaVoce SAN214.50 21" tuned to 18Hz in 7.8cu ft and green is the current nearfield RSS390HO-4 15" tuned 22Hz in 3.2 cu ft cabs.
HR shows a different frequency response for 7.8ft3 @ 18hz with a 3"H x 22.5"W x 48"L port.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	LV SAN214.50 BR.jpg
Views:	38
Size:	905.7 KB
ID:	2581694  
Sekosche likes this.

Sony XBR65x900e / STR-DN1080 / original PS4 / WOW! Ultra TV / Quantum Access Mini PC Stick w/Windows 10 / 8 x Rockville SPG88 8“ DJ PA Speakers / Dayton Audio SA1000 / Kicker 08S15L74 in a Tapped-Tapered Quarter Wave Tube (negative flare tapped horn).
BP1Fanatic is offline  
post #10 of 117 Old 06-18-2019, 01:53 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Sekosche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,246
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1375 Post(s)
Liked: 3372
Quote:
Originally Posted by BP1Fanatic View Post
HR shows a different frequency response for 7.8ft3 @ 18hz with a 3"H x 22.5"W x 48"L port.
Thanks for checking! How much does it differ?
I've never used Hornresp, so I'm not sure if your measurements are better or worse than what WinISD models and how close to my parameters it uses; if it's better, great! The port width will only be 21" in my build. A few of your driver parameters are just a little different than the stock specs for this driver. I've been modeling a few more boxes, and have likely settled on closer to a 10cu ft 19Hz tuned cab as pretty close to optimal for my needs, signal shaped with EQ to max it out for my placement and amplifer.


These were all modeled with a single channel of an iNuke 6K's output potential, and showing the driver only 18" away instead of a full meter, 2nd order HPF and 100Hz LPF for now.

Purple is a 15cu ft cab with two drivers tuned 19Hz (too big for my current space unfortunately but I really wanted to try)
Yellow is the 10cu ft tuned 19Hz and has a higher 1st port resonance I wasn't able to get in the smaller cab
Red is the 7.8cu ft tuned to 19Hz
Green being the currently used 15" driver, just a single.

Here's a DropBox link to the WinISD config file I'm using: https://www.dropbox.com/s/b7qc404uqm...14.50.wdr?dl=0
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	SAN214.50 SPL Comparisons.jpg
Views:	36
Size:	263.4 KB
ID:	2581718  

Speakers: PSA MTM-210T x2, MTM-210C, MT-110SR x2; Atmos-SVS Satellite x2, DIY Volt-10 x2
Subs: PSA V1801 x2, DIY: 18" RSS460HO, 15" RSS390HO x2, BOSS w/JBL CX1200 x6
MA’s: Crowson Tech x2
Processing: Denon X4200, NU6KDSP, 3KDSP
Video: Epson 3700; Screen: Silver Ticket 106" High Contrast
Sekosche is online now  
post #11 of 117 Old 06-18-2019, 02:05 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Sekosche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,246
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1375 Post(s)
Liked: 3372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
A 21" near field

Does it have an ejection seat mode? That would bolster the wife approval factor when it comes time for doing stuff around the house.
Haha, she's definitely and obviously pretty awesome when it comes to WAF in a shared living space, but I do try to compromise a little for her sanity...otherwise I'd most likely have 4 full marty's around the room and dual 21" nearfields by now, so she's been saving me money.

I read your awesome stormbreaker build thread with the 21DS115, how are you liking it, and does it have a brother yet? I thought wow, I could totally replace my marty cube with one of those and the wife might not even notice, but I try and keep the rest of the room subs below 25".

Speakers: PSA MTM-210T x2, MTM-210C, MT-110SR x2; Atmos-SVS Satellite x2, DIY Volt-10 x2
Subs: PSA V1801 x2, DIY: 18" RSS460HO, 15" RSS390HO x2, BOSS w/JBL CX1200 x6
MA’s: Crowson Tech x2
Processing: Denon X4200, NU6KDSP, 3KDSP
Video: Epson 3700; Screen: Silver Ticket 106" High Contrast
Sekosche is online now  
post #12 of 117 Old 06-18-2019, 02:33 PM
Advanced Member
 
Red Five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 784
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 385 Post(s)
Liked: 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
Haha, she's definitely and obviously pretty awesome when it comes to WAF in a shared living space, but I do try to compromise a little for her sanity...otherwise I'd most likely have 4 full marty's around the room and dual 21" nearfields by now, so she's been saving me money.



I read your awesome stormbreaker build thread with the 21DS115, how are you liking it, and does it have a brother yet? I thought wow, I could totally replace my marty cube with one of those and the wife might not even notice, but I try and keep the rest of the room subs below 25".
Nice! The Stormbreaker will be for sale soon, if the room were not so large I would stop there. This will be the new creation, the Devastator LFE with a little bit higher tune efficiency drops fast once you go under 66% of the Fs. Dark gray is the Dev LFE, light gray is the Stormbreaker. I should hopefully start building in the next two weeks if the schedule allows

asarose247 and Sekosche like this.

Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | B.M.D. (in progress)
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen
Red Five is online now  
post #13 of 117 Old 06-18-2019, 06:22 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Sekosche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,246
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1375 Post(s)
Liked: 3372
21" Slim Nearfield 7.8cu ft Build with LaVoce SAN214.50

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
Nice! The Stormbreaker will be for sale soon, if the room were not so large I would stop there. This will be the new creation, the Devastator LFE with a little bit higher tune efficiency drops fast once you go under 66% of the Fs. Dark gray is the Dev LFE, light gray is the Stormbreaker. I should hopefully start building in the next two weeks if the schedule allows

Killer! Is that horn loaded? I almost went with a little higher tune than my current nearfields for more midbass, but for nearfield I definitely don’t need 130+ dB. I liked this detailed build on the LaVoce website for a similar cabinet to yours:

http://www.lavocespeakers.com/wp-con...Des_revB.a.pdf

You might finish yours long before me. I do have some pretty long breaks off work in the next month cramming a lot of shifts together, so maybe I’ll get the cab done by end of July; slapping on a few coats of Duratex should save me a lot of finishing time this go around, but I do really like how my current cabs paint all match the furniture, still not worth the extra week or two for dry time, so a black six foot coffin it is! Maybe I’ll call it the grave digger. Everyone else seems to have cool names for their builds.
Red Five likes this.

Speakers: PSA MTM-210T x2, MTM-210C, MT-110SR x2; Atmos-SVS Satellite x2, DIY Volt-10 x2
Subs: PSA V1801 x2, DIY: 18" RSS460HO, 15" RSS390HO x2, BOSS w/JBL CX1200 x6
MA’s: Crowson Tech x2
Processing: Denon X4200, NU6KDSP, 3KDSP
Video: Epson 3700; Screen: Silver Ticket 106" High Contrast
Sekosche is online now  
post #14 of 117 Old 06-18-2019, 07:18 PM
Advanced Member
 
Red Five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 784
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 385 Post(s)
Liked: 433
Yes, the front is loaded by a horn. The rear of the driver is loaded by a bass reflex chamber. Kevin is using a 214.50 in his Devastator and has been happy with it. The Dev v1 is a lot smaller, if you can fit a full Marty somewhere the v1 might just fit.

What are you thinking of doing for bracing on the coffin?
Sekosche likes this.

Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | B.M.D. (in progress)
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen
Red Five is online now  
post #15 of 117 Old 06-18-2019, 09:15 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Sekosche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,246
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1375 Post(s)
Liked: 3372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
What are you thinking of doing for bracing on the coffin?

I like that, the coffin. Think that’s what I’ll go with...so many jokes about wives always having one on hand for when their HT crazy spouses drive them to the edge. She’ll probably like that nickname too.

For bracing, probably going to do a combination of window braces every 12-16” and 1” dowel rods in between each panel with them running the length of the box, as I liked that simple combo in my Marty cube build. I used 2x4” boards in the current nearfield boxes and that was also cool, but probably overkill and window braces will be easier. This thing will be so long and heavy by the time I’m done, it’s unlike the previous sub builds that all ranged from only maybe 80-110lb cabinets, so mostly just going to wing it and learn as I go how to manage a box this size.

Also remember, the driver is tuned for max output in this enclosure for this nearfield application, which is only at roughly 60% of its RMS with a full channel of an iNuke 6K, so I don’t think structural integrity will be much of an issue. When I get to build future enclosures for our next home, I’ll have to cook up something even beefier.

Think the last model I did for this driver at 10 cu ft wound up being 72” x 24” x 18”. Another half a foot long, and I I could fit in the coffin. It’ll be 4” deeper than my current svelte 14” depth near fields, but I’ll make room, even if I have to modify my current BOSS platform again to snug it up to the couch.

Since it’s a simple slot port, it’ll be fairly easy (minus the back breaking labor) compared to some of the more complex horn designs I’ve seen with lots of angles and near CNC required precision of the panels to get right. Definitely a lot of labor still for a cab this big I imagine. I‘ll be sure to glue it all up in the right order and that my cuts are all square the first time this go, not redoing a cab this big if I screw it up.
N8DOGG likes this.

Speakers: PSA MTM-210T x2, MTM-210C, MT-110SR x2; Atmos-SVS Satellite x2, DIY Volt-10 x2
Subs: PSA V1801 x2, DIY: 18" RSS460HO, 15" RSS390HO x2, BOSS w/JBL CX1200 x6
MA’s: Crowson Tech x2
Processing: Denon X4200, NU6KDSP, 3KDSP
Video: Epson 3700; Screen: Silver Ticket 106" High Contrast
Sekosche is online now  
post #16 of 117 Old 06-18-2019, 11:55 PM
Advanced Member
 
BP1Fanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Columbus, Oh
Posts: 580
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 203 Post(s)
Liked: 170
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
Killer! Is that horn loaded? I almost went with a little higher tune than my current nearfields for more midbass, but for nearfield I definitely don’t need 130+ dB. I liked this detailed build on the LaVoce website for a similar cabinet to yours:

http://www.lavocespeakers.com/wp-con...Des_revB.a.pdf
No, the Dev LFE is a BP6 parallel tuned enclosure. There is no positive flare to the ports to make it a vented FLH.

I used the T/S specs off the LaVoice site. I let HR calculate BL, MMS, and CMS. Notice, my curve is shaped like their curve and we both used the whole internal width of the enclosure as the port.
Sekosche likes this.

Sony XBR65x900e / STR-DN1080 / original PS4 / WOW! Ultra TV / Quantum Access Mini PC Stick w/Windows 10 / 8 x Rockville SPG88 8“ DJ PA Speakers / Dayton Audio SA1000 / Kicker 08S15L74 in a Tapped-Tapered Quarter Wave Tube (negative flare tapped horn).
BP1Fanatic is offline  
post #17 of 117 Old 06-19-2019, 12:04 AM
Advanced Member
 
BP1Fanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Columbus, Oh
Posts: 580
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 203 Post(s)
Liked: 170
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
Yes, the front is loaded by a horn. The rear of the driver is loaded by a bass reflex chamber. Kevin is using a 214.50 in his Devastator and has been happy with it. The Dev v1 is a lot smaller, if you can fit a full Marty somewhere the v1 might just fit.

What are you thinking of doing for bracing on the coffin?
Can you post the HR input screen to show it's a vented FLH?
The speaker plate looks parallel to the front panel. The rear port looks like it's going straight from front to rear of the enclosure.

Sony XBR65x900e / STR-DN1080 / original PS4 / WOW! Ultra TV / Quantum Access Mini PC Stick w/Windows 10 / 8 x Rockville SPG88 8“ DJ PA Speakers / Dayton Audio SA1000 / Kicker 08S15L74 in a Tapped-Tapered Quarter Wave Tube (negative flare tapped horn).
BP1Fanatic is offline  
post #18 of 117 Old 06-19-2019, 12:26 AM
Advanced Member
 
BP1Fanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Columbus, Oh
Posts: 580
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 203 Post(s)
Liked: 170
I opened up the LaVoice pdf.

They modeled a 21.65" internal width enclosure and port.

Sekosche stated a 24" external width enclosure which equals a 22.5" internal width with 0.75" thick panels.

They used a stepped positive flare port kinda like a BLH...back loaded horn.
Sekosche likes this.

Sony XBR65x900e / STR-DN1080 / original PS4 / WOW! Ultra TV / Quantum Access Mini PC Stick w/Windows 10 / 8 x Rockville SPG88 8“ DJ PA Speakers / Dayton Audio SA1000 / Kicker 08S15L74 in a Tapped-Tapered Quarter Wave Tube (negative flare tapped horn).
BP1Fanatic is offline  
post #19 of 117 Old 06-19-2019, 04:38 AM
Advanced Member
 
Red Five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 784
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 385 Post(s)
Liked: 433
One quick note, since you have broken the 48" mark you can now get standing waves in the box, you will want to shove a pillow in there to deal with it. Just do not block the vent
Sekosche likes this.

Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | B.M.D. (in progress)
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen
Red Five is online now  
post #20 of 117 Old 06-19-2019, 04:45 AM
Advanced Member
 
Red Five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 784
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 385 Post(s)
Liked: 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by BP1Fanatic View Post
Can you post the HR input screen to show it's a vented FLH?
The speaker plate looks parallel to the front panel. The rear port looks like it's going straight from front to rear of the enclosure.

Not much tweaking has been done other than adding a half inch of height to the vent and taking it off the front, and the rear chamber grew a lot from 266l.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	MYDEVV2.JPG
Views:	21
Size:	62.1 KB
ID:	2581840  
Sekosche likes this.

Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | B.M.D. (in progress)
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen
Red Five is online now  
post #21 of 117 Old 06-19-2019, 06:01 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Sekosche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,246
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1375 Post(s)
Liked: 3372
Quote:
Originally Posted by BP1Fanatic View Post
I opened up the LaVoice pdf.



They modeled a 21.65" internal width enclosure and port.



Sekosche stated a 24" external width enclosure which equals a 22.5" internal width with 0.75" thick panels.



They used a stepped positive flare port kinda like a BLH...back loaded horn.

For my build, I was subtracting the two port rails from the port width on my build as well from the port width, is this not supposed to be done? If not, I guess that makes sense since the opening of the port is technically 22.5” wide on a 24” wide enclosure only including the outer walls. In that case, looks like I need to remodel a tad.

The LaVoce enclosure pic was just something I linked for @redfive to compare to his build. Tuned quite a bit higher than what he’s building still, but cool.

Speakers: PSA MTM-210T x2, MTM-210C, MT-110SR x2; Atmos-SVS Satellite x2, DIY Volt-10 x2
Subs: PSA V1801 x2, DIY: 18" RSS460HO, 15" RSS390HO x2, BOSS w/JBL CX1200 x6
MA’s: Crowson Tech x2
Processing: Denon X4200, NU6KDSP, 3KDSP
Video: Epson 3700; Screen: Silver Ticket 106" High Contrast
Sekosche is online now  
post #22 of 117 Old 06-19-2019, 06:06 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Sekosche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,246
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1375 Post(s)
Liked: 3372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
One quick note, since you have broken the 48" mark you can now get standing waves in the box, you will want to shove a pillow in there to deal with it. Just do not block the vent

Thanks!
I planned on lining the box with 1.5” mattresses topper like my last builds, but is this not sufficient for the larger standing waves in an enclosure this long and why some use more insulation like a pillow?

This is my first big boy sub larger than a Marty cube, so the advice is much appreciated!

Speakers: PSA MTM-210T x2, MTM-210C, MT-110SR x2; Atmos-SVS Satellite x2, DIY Volt-10 x2
Subs: PSA V1801 x2, DIY: 18" RSS460HO, 15" RSS390HO x2, BOSS w/JBL CX1200 x6
MA’s: Crowson Tech x2
Processing: Denon X4200, NU6KDSP, 3KDSP
Video: Epson 3700; Screen: Silver Ticket 106" High Contrast
Sekosche is online now  
post #23 of 117 Old 06-19-2019, 06:15 AM
Advanced Member
 
Red Five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 784
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 385 Post(s)
Liked: 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
Thanks!
I planned on lining the box with 1.5” mattresses topper like my last builds, but is this not sufficient for the larger standing waves in an enclosure this long and why some use more insulation like a pillow?

This is my first big boy sub larger than a Marty cube, so the advice is much appreciated!

I asked John awhile ago, he did not go into great detail, but just said standing waves require pillows once you go over 48" in any give direction on a enclosure. I am assuming the wave lengths are longer and have more energy than the boundaries of the chamber can absorb with light padding. If you look at some of the LLT boxes you will find pillows stuffed somewhere in the middle or more towards the end of the box. Depending on your crossover you might not need padding.
Sekosche likes this.

Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | B.M.D. (in progress)
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen
Red Five is online now  
post #24 of 117 Old 06-19-2019, 06:27 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Sekosche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,246
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1375 Post(s)
Liked: 3372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
I asked John awhile ago, he did not go into great detail, but just said standing waves require pillows once you go over 48" in any give direction on a enclosure. I am assuming the wave lengths are longer and have more energy than the boundaries of the chamber can absorb with light padding. If you look at some of the LLT boxes you will find pillows stuffed somewhere in the middle or more towards the end of the box. Depending on your crossover you might not need padding.

Sweet thanks! Should fit nicely between the middle window brace, will have to remember that when picking up the mattress topper. I do like to run a little higher than 80Hz crossover a lot of the time 90-100Hz, but with this beast I might dial it back some.

Speakers: PSA MTM-210T x2, MTM-210C, MT-110SR x2; Atmos-SVS Satellite x2, DIY Volt-10 x2
Subs: PSA V1801 x2, DIY: 18" RSS460HO, 15" RSS390HO x2, BOSS w/JBL CX1200 x6
MA’s: Crowson Tech x2
Processing: Denon X4200, NU6KDSP, 3KDSP
Video: Epson 3700; Screen: Silver Ticket 106" High Contrast
Sekosche is online now  
post #25 of 117 Old 06-19-2019, 06:29 AM
Advanced Member
 
Red Five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 784
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 385 Post(s)
Liked: 433
I tried finding where Matt said 100hz or lower does not require the padding, but it is buried deep in the VBSS thread or was it somewhere else? If I get bored later today or tomorrow should we mock it up?
Sekosche likes this.

Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | B.M.D. (in progress)
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen
Red Five is online now  
post #26 of 117 Old 06-19-2019, 07:27 AM
Advanced Member
 
Red Five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 784
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 385 Post(s)
Liked: 433
Just for fun, no bracing.


Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	TallSkinnyMartyFront.JPG
Views:	158
Size:	29.2 KB
ID:	2581878  
Sekosche likes this.

Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | B.M.D. (in progress)
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen
Red Five is online now  
post #27 of 117 Old 06-19-2019, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Sekosche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,246
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1375 Post(s)
Liked: 3372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
Just for fun, no bracing.
Looks awesome and thanks! I did some final predictions for box size using a 3.5" port height, port length comes in around 40" after subtracting 11" off the WinISD estimate using the roughly 50% off the port width John mentioned to keep tuning the same with a slot port. Final cab should be 72" x 24" x 16" which is great to keep it just 2" deeper than my current boxes. What program did you sketch that up in?

What sort of monster amps put out 1,700WRMS into an 8ohm load? Speakersoft, Icepower, or an FP20K? Since these are 8ohm pro woofers, I'm not sure what most people would power them with for full loads at home. If I like this build a lot, curious for the future as most the LaVoce subs available are 8ohm, which is why I nearly went the B&C route, but the cost savings between their lines is substantial.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Coffin 10 Cu Ft Build.jpg
Views:	17
Size:	65.7 KB
ID:	2581924  

Speakers: PSA MTM-210T x2, MTM-210C, MT-110SR x2; Atmos-SVS Satellite x2, DIY Volt-10 x2
Subs: PSA V1801 x2, DIY: 18" RSS460HO, 15" RSS390HO x2, BOSS w/JBL CX1200 x6
MA’s: Crowson Tech x2
Processing: Denon X4200, NU6KDSP, 3KDSP
Video: Epson 3700; Screen: Silver Ticket 106" High Contrast

Last edited by Sekosche; 06-19-2019 at 09:58 AM.
Sekosche is online now  
post #28 of 117 Old 06-19-2019, 09:58 AM
Advanced Member
 
Red Five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 784
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 385 Post(s)
Liked: 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
Looks awesome and thanks! I did some final predictions for box size using a 3.5" port height comes in around 40" after subtracting 11" off the WinISD estimated length. Specs are 72" x 24" x 16" which is great to keep it just 2" deeper than my current boxes. What program did you sketch that up in?

What sort of monster amps put out 1,700WRMS into an 8ohm load? Speakersoft, Icepower, or an FP20K? Since these are 8ohm pro woofers, I'm not sure what most people would power them with for full loads at home. If I like this build a lot, curious for the future as most the LaVoce subs available are 8ohm, which is why I nearly went the B&C route, but the cost savings between their lines is substantial.



Can you give me your final numbers? FreeCAD, it works decently enough and was pretty easy to figure out since it is a parametric cad, feed it numbers for parts and you get this!


The XLI3500 bridged into 8 Ohms is 2600watts RMS. I just design around 1500 watts though since I do not want spend money on more amps for a db.... I think a clone 14000 is good for 2500 watts on a single channel.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	166024MartyBracingFront.JPG
Views:	18
Size:	27.8 KB
ID:	2581926   Click image for larger version

Name:	166024MartyWireframe.JPG
Views:	22
Size:	42.7 KB
ID:	2581928  
Sekosche likes this.

Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | B.M.D. (in progress)
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen
Red Five is online now  
post #29 of 117 Old 06-19-2019, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Sekosche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,246
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1375 Post(s)
Liked: 3372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
Can you give me your final numbers? FreeCAD, it works decently enough and was pretty easy to figure out since it is a parametric cad, feed it numbers for parts and you get this!


The XLI3500 bridged into 8 Ohms is 2600watts RMS. I just design around 1500 watts though since I do not want spend money on more amps for a db.... I think a clone 14000 is good for 2500 watts on a single channel.
Nice, I've got a full version of the pricey Corel Draw I used at my previous business for laser engraving, but it's way too complicated for simple sketch ups and definitely not optimal for quick CAD builds like this. I figure 1,000-1,500w is plenty too so as not to have to spend many thousands on amps. Either way, I don't think I could ever take one of these drivers at full tilt for nearfield. I'll check out Crown and QSC too one day should the need arise, but a clone seems like the cheapest route to go for the power.

Final box dimensions from the previous excel pic I linked will be 72" x 24" x 16"; 3.5" port height and 40" port length should work out great.

Speakers: PSA MTM-210T x2, MTM-210C, MT-110SR x2; Atmos-SVS Satellite x2, DIY Volt-10 x2
Subs: PSA V1801 x2, DIY: 18" RSS460HO, 15" RSS390HO x2, BOSS w/JBL CX1200 x6
MA’s: Crowson Tech x2
Processing: Denon X4200, NU6KDSP, 3KDSP
Video: Epson 3700; Screen: Silver Ticket 106" High Contrast
Sekosche is online now  
post #30 of 117 Old 06-19-2019, 10:17 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Sekosche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,246
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1375 Post(s)
Liked: 3372
Think I'm going to move the driver down closer to the port. I've heard you don't want it right up against the bottom port wall, but thinking maybe 8" from the port edge where I'll start the outer driver hole to keep it right behind the MLP for how I'll have it oriented laying down.

Speakers: PSA MTM-210T x2, MTM-210C, MT-110SR x2; Atmos-SVS Satellite x2, DIY Volt-10 x2
Subs: PSA V1801 x2, DIY: 18" RSS460HO, 15" RSS390HO x2, BOSS w/JBL CX1200 x6
MA’s: Crowson Tech x2
Processing: Denon X4200, NU6KDSP, 3KDSP
Video: Epson 3700; Screen: Silver Ticket 106" High Contrast
Sekosche is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off