Planning new subwoofers - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 7Likes
  • 1 Post By sassuki
  • 1 Post By BassThatHz
  • 1 Post By jevchance
  • 1 Post By Craig S King
  • 2 Post By lloyd401
  • 1 Post By lloyd401
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 29 Old 06-19-2019, 08:31 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Planning new subwoofers

I have a fairly large finished basement (16x30x8) that is basically an open rectangle. I have the theater set on one side with the back open to a pool table. I feel like I can improve the LFE a bit. It sounds decent enough, however it isnt very impactful. Im thinking the room is just too big for my current setup. Also, I have an enormous dip that has to be a room node right at 45 hz. Now Im trying to figure out what my options are. The WAF is going to play heavily into the next project. She already wasnt too happy about a 5' tall black cylinder in the corner, so a full marty is going to be out of the question.

Current setup:
Denon x4400
AV123 Ref 2 LCR
DIY Ultimax 15" (6.8 cubic foot sonotube @17 HZ)
SVS 25-31 pc sub
RSL c34 heights (atmos
RSL w26 rear surround
Vizio M70
Nvidia Shield

I was thinking of possibly building a large box to run along the back or side of the sofa and disguising it as a large table. I may be able to put one box where the current ultimax is in the corner, but Im limited by 23" from the wall to the right speaker. Ideally I would be able to remove the SVS completely, and run dual 18 next to/behind the sofa. Im just worried about this being too much tactile bass being nearfield? Am I really going to gain that much going to dual 18 over the current setup? I may be stuck with being limited to 15" drivers, but Im not entirely sure that will be worth it to add?

Attached a rough layout. Please nto that it is not to scale, more of a reference to see what the constraints are.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	basement-01.jpg
Views:	47
Size:	72.9 KB
ID:	2581896  

Last edited by Jon C; 06-19-2019 at 10:36 AM.
Jon C is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 29 Old 06-19-2019, 10:16 AM
Writer & Reviewer
 
JimWilson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Somewhere in New Joisey
Posts: 8,116
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2155 Post(s)
Liked: 3237
Is this a commercial sub you're looking for or a DIY project. If it's the latter you would get more responses posting in the DIY section. If it's a commercial product you're after than this is the right place.

 
If you take yourself too seriously expect me to do the exact opposite...
JimWilson is offline  
post #3 of 29 Old 06-19-2019, 10:52 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Crap, I thought I was in the DIY section....Too many tabs open I guess. Can a Mod move this
Jon C is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 29 Old 06-19-2019, 02:16 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
RayGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,375
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2593 Post(s)
Liked: 2342
You might consider moving the seating/sub so that you cure the 45Hz dip.

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.
RayGuy is online now  
post #5 of 29 Old 06-19-2019, 02:31 PM
Senior Member
 
Mocs123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 455
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 154 Post(s)
Liked: 56
If you have the DIY skill, you could absolutely make a "sofa table" with a couple of 18's in it. You could probably modify the Marty design to sit on it's side and disguise it too. If not the sealed boxes Dayton sells for the Ultimax line are pretty small, you could go with dual 18's and put them where your current subs are. Dual opposing subs are supposed to have a lot of output for the size though I have no experience with them.

7.1.4 Theater Room (In Progress): JVC-RS46U, Silver Ticket AT 2.35:1 142”, Onkyo RZ830, Anthem PVA-7, Panasonic DBT-110, JBL Studio 270’s, 4 - 15" DIY Sealed Subs

3.1 Living Room: Samsung 64” F8500 Plasma, Anthem MRX 300, Dynaudio Audience 52’s, Dynaudio Audience 122C, NHT SubOne
Mocs123 is offline  
post #6 of 29 Old 06-19-2019, 03:54 PM
Senior Member
 
sassuki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 294
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 84 Post(s)
Liked: 190
You could build a bar behind your couch and use the bar base cabinets as the sub enclosures. They’d be invisible and potentially very large if wanting to go with a big ported design. As far as the tactile feel goes, I’ve found that the tactile feel of the lower tuned subs isn’t distracting. I think once you start getting up into the midbass region >50-80hz then it can be a little more touchy and require some more thoughtful integration. There is more content up high so that tactile feel could probably become more tiring sooner if not integrated well. The low stuff just kicks you in the pants and then leaves you alone for a while until it surprises you again.
Jk7.2 likes this.
sassuki is offline  
post #7 of 29 Old 06-19-2019, 05:25 PM
Writer & Reviewer
 
JimWilson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Somewhere in New Joisey
Posts: 8,116
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2155 Post(s)
Liked: 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon C View Post
Crap, I thought I was in the DIY section....Too many tabs open I guess. Can a Mod move this
Calling @Mike Lang , can you move this thread to the DIY section?

 
If you take yourself too seriously expect me to do the exact opposite...
JimWilson is offline  
post #8 of 29 Old 06-19-2019, 05:49 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
BassThatHz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Northern Okan range (NW Cascades region)
Posts: 10,637
Mentioned: 221 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3679 Post(s)
Liked: 4170
If you upgrade to "only" dual UM-15's ported, that would gain you 6db.

If you want louder you'll have to add more cones and bigger cones.

<40hz is for simulating earthquakes.
40-300hz is for chestkick.

Given the extreme WAF restrictions you've pretty much maxed-out on your 17hz quota.

By getting rid of the SVS you could make some space for a bunch of PA-460's tuned to 40hz. They are almost 100db/w/m so they don't consume much power and mid-bass doesn't require much xmax. All you need is cone-area and motor-force.

Many people obsess over the 1-20hz region, but that is the most-expensive and most-difficult region to reproduce, while containing the least-value.
It's defiantly a rich-boy and man-cave-only quest; where as 30-300hz mid-bass is easily and cheaply solvable (hence why I usually recommend people solve that region firstly.)

Also, make sure you aren't in a mid-bass room null; (and if you are... then you'll have to beat the room into submission with bruteforce! )
Mocs123 likes this.
BassThatHz is offline  
post #9 of 29 Old 06-20-2019, 11:06 AM
Senior Member
 
jcr159's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NE Ohio (Go Steelers!)
Posts: 376
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 166 Post(s)
Liked: 90
If you call the UM15 your "front right corner" sub, move the SVS to the back left corner. That will give much more even response across all seats, and give you a fighting chance to clean up your 45 Hz problem. It doesn't matter which sub goes where. Next, as mentioned, make sure your seating isn't exactly at the midpoint front to back of the room. Even moving it a foot either direction will help a lot if you are.

After that, basically like @BassThatHz said, you need to go very big or go home if you want a ton of authority below 20 Hz.

you are dealing with ~10,000 cubic ft, and that would put you in PB 16 territory from an SVS perspective, and that assumes your staircase has a door at the top or bottom. If not, you are trying to pressurize way more than that...

I'm guessing you're beyond full marty territory with the volume of space you have if you really want authority at and below 20 Hz.


Good luck!

Have a question and want it answered in podcast format?
[email protected]
http://www.avrant.com/
https://www.youtube.com/c/avrant
jcr159 is offline  
post #10 of 29 Old 06-20-2019, 11:13 AM
Senior Member
 
jcr159's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NE Ohio (Go Steelers!)
Posts: 376
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 166 Post(s)
Liked: 90
I've seen a build that was around the Stereo Integrity HS-24 in a "tube" design that essentially was a ported tube built to look like 2 columns. At that point, maybe you could build them into the decor of the room and look architectural... or build 4, one in each corner and get really nice response across the room... you'd need to go big though as you have a really large space... if you built around the Dayton UM18, that would be an upgrade over what you have now, but probably not earth shattering... Maybe the B&C 21 would be a sweet spot in cost and output, but might not dig as deep as you really want...

Have a question and want it answered in podcast format?
[email protected]
http://www.avrant.com/
https://www.youtube.com/c/avrant
jcr159 is offline  
post #11 of 29 Old 06-20-2019, 11:37 AM
Senior Member
 
Mocs123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 455
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 154 Post(s)
Liked: 56
If you did a "sofa table" build you could probably divide it into two Full Marty's.

7.1.4 Theater Room (In Progress): JVC-RS46U, Silver Ticket AT 2.35:1 142”, Onkyo RZ830, Anthem PVA-7, Panasonic DBT-110, JBL Studio 270’s, 4 - 15" DIY Sealed Subs

3.1 Living Room: Samsung 64” F8500 Plasma, Anthem MRX 300, Dynaudio Audience 52’s, Dynaudio Audience 122C, NHT SubOne
Mocs123 is offline  
post #12 of 29 Old 06-21-2019, 04:14 AM
Member
 
buggers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 188
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Can you post some pictures of the room?
buggers is offline  
post #13 of 29 Old 06-21-2019, 04:51 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Thanks for all the help guys. I will definitely get some pictures and more accurate dimensions over the weekend. I know that the couch isnt at the halfway point but it may be at 1/3. The distance to the back corner of the room is pretty far, so Im wondering if putting a sub all the way back there would be too much of a drop in db. Also, I would need to run a wireless transmitter back there (any opinions about these? Dayton wavelink/SVS soundpath)

I ran a sweep last night so that you guys can see what Im dealing with. The green line is both subs+fronts so you can have a better idea of the full frequency response. The purple is the two subs only. You can see the dip right around 40 Hz. Im not knowledgeable enough to be able to tell if this is a room node or not. I did two smoothing graphs so you can have a better idea of the severity of the drop. These graphs are run with Audyssey processing on.

BassthatHz now has me wondering if I should try to do dual 18 as large as I can get them behind the sofa running sub 50hz, and build some smaller 12"boxes sitting next to the fronts running 50-150-ish. I could probably get away with 1 to 2 cubes next to the mains, but now Im worrying about mixing sealed/ported.

To think I was just trying to add a subwoofer, and now Im thinking adding 4!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1_12 smoothing.jpg
Views:	34
Size:	282.8 KB
ID:	2582674   Click image for larger version

Name:	1_48 smoothing.jpg
Views:	29
Size:	315.6 KB
ID:	2582676  
Jon C is offline  
post #14 of 29 Old 06-21-2019, 05:15 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Hudsonville, MI
Posts: 184
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 86 Post(s)
Liked: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon C View Post

To think I was just trying to add a subwoofer, and now Im thinking adding 4!
Welcome to DIY.
Craig S King likes this.

--
Epson 2030 - Denon X1300W - Eosone RSF 1000 - Eosone RSC 300 - Eosone RSF 600 - Micca M-8C for ATMOS - 2 @ VBSS End Tables
DIY 110" AT Screen
jevchance is offline  
post #15 of 29 Old 06-21-2019, 05:59 AM
Advanced Member
 
Craig S King's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 675
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 359 Post(s)
Liked: 510
If you are DIY capable, you very easily could do a 21" subwoofer and build either Devastator or a Submaximus and disguise them as pieces of furniture in the room. Camouflage them as an entertainment center or a bar to sit at while watching a movie or playing pool.
Jk7.2 likes this.
Craig S King is offline  
post #16 of 29 Old 06-21-2019, 12:55 PM
Senior Member
 
jcr159's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NE Ohio (Go Steelers!)
Posts: 376
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 166 Post(s)
Liked: 90
Honestly, that 10 db notch isn't that bad... most are dealing with 20-30 db in a null...

if you are using a calibrated mic, you have a heck of a lot of output at 110db which surprises me. I also think you could get away with something akin to the SVS 4000 ported series in that volume of air.

If it were me, and could get away with 4, I'd build 4 sonotube style subs (one for each corner) with a single UM18 in each. Tune to around 17Hz or so... Or, if you can put up with the aesthetics, order a 4 pack of marty boxes from GSG, one in each corner (or stack 2 in the front right, and 2 in the back left), and you should be just fine in this room.

Keep in mind that it might light the fire and bring you back for 4 21" or 24" subs in a year or so, but 2-4 18" subs should be just fine...

Also note that spreading the subs around the room is all about smoothing the response from seat to seat, and minimizing peaks and nulls... You'll get more output, but not really that much compared to what a lot of folks think they'll get...

if you stack 2 or 4 subs in the same place that's a bit different of a story, but you won't get the benefits mentioned above.

Finally, with respect to distance, you won't see too much drop off, though you'll set the level a bit higher on the further sub... all the subs are moving all the air in the total space no matter how far you are from them. That said, nearfield/close range subs do produce a more visceral "kick", but folks either love or hate it typically... it's a bit different so to speak...

Have a question and want it answered in podcast format?
[email protected]
http://www.avrant.com/
https://www.youtube.com/c/avrant
jcr159 is offline  
post #17 of 29 Old 06-23-2019, 10:22 AM
Advanced Member
 
FriscoDTM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 996
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 418 Post(s)
Liked: 389
what are the dimensions of that couch? Depending on your budget, I would probably lean towards the console table behind the couch. Depending on the size, you could probably fit several 18-20 Hz ported subs and 2-4 sealed MBMs into something that looks like a console table behind the couch, and drop a counter top on it for aesthetics and functionality. You can also add a BOSS platform (open baffle sub array) under the couch for ULF tactile, and run them all off a single FP20k with a MiniDSP HD.

Display 2013 Samsung 75" UN75F6300 TV Media Xbox One X, Dune Solo, QNAP TS-453A NAS
Pre/Amp Marantz 7702mk2 Processor + DIY 11ch Icepower 50ASX2BTL Monoblock Amp Amp Build Link
7.2.4 Speakers DIYSG 1099s (LCR), Volt 10LX (SL, SR), Volt 8LX (BL, BR), Volt 10LX (TF, TR) Volt Build Link
Subs Dual 19Hz DIY Ported UXL-18s + FP14k Amp + MiniDSP 2x4 Balanced Tactile Crowsons + iNuke 6000DSP
FriscoDTM is offline  
post #18 of 29 Old 06-23-2019, 11:25 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
BassThatHz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Northern Okan range (NW Cascades region)
Posts: 10,637
Mentioned: 221 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3679 Post(s)
Liked: 4170
If you measure directly in front of the cone, you'll notice it outputs a smooth response.
Pretty much every peak and null in the chart is room-caused.

We generally don't need to measure above 2-300hz, and then smoothing can be turned off.

I have like 32 subs in 3000cuft, so for 10,000cuft the sky is the limit...

12inch cubes up front won't be enough. The PA 12's have significantly lower efficiency and power-handling and cone-area.
It is what it is though, still better than not having any I guess.

I prefer my mid-bass to come from the front of the room, but some don't mind it nearfield. Putting them nearfield will require that you add delay to them. The furthest speaker has no delay, and all the other speakers have delay at a 1.1ms/ft rate from that reference point.
AVR's calculate it for you, but generally only for 1 sub so you'll have to turn it off, which will then be a problem for the SVS unless it has onboard DSP with delay.

As for mixing sealed and ported, ported subs cause a phase-shift near and below tuning. Sealed subs don't, so as long as the sealed subs are HPF'ed comparable to the ported subs, then the phase-shift should be insignificant.
Where you might have a problem is using ported subs for mid-bass, that will cause a shift at say 40hz, which is less than ideal.
Conversely, if you try to use the sealed subs for 1-20hz that will interfere with the subs ported to 15-20hz.

Using all-sealed is never a problem, using a bunch of ported subs and mains is the problem. (There is no free lunch.)

Hence why my system is pretty much an all-sealed design, yeah it's not efficient in the 13-20hz region, but it's the highest-density, smallest and simplest design, mostly headache-free.

The SI-24's do really well when sealed because they have lots of cone-area and excursion to make up for the lack of the extra SPL generated by the port near tuning; so people have done fairly well using multiples of those for the space occupied.

A subwoofer box the entire length of the sofa with sealed UM-18's on all 6 sides (raised up with small legs), say 10 18's and 10kW... should be good-start. hehe!
If that's too expensive then maybe 10 PA-460 with a bulk discount and 5kW.

This formula is way oversimplified but SPL is basically:
cone-area x excursion x cone-efficiency x power-handling + any port displacement at tuning. Minus the distance-law.

That's why all of the boxes with multiple large cones have done so well on data-bass (MAUL etc), as have the larger coned subs (SI-24 etc).
https://data-bass.com/#/systems
Porting and Horning the boxes help too, but that has some disadvantages with mixing box-types.

The best way to "get loud" is with cone-area because it doesn't add heat or distortion.
The next-best way is with excursion, which requires power, which means heats + distortion.
It's not linear either, 2x the power is like 4x the heat and 40% more excursion, and an untold amount of extra distortion.

Excursion, power and heat are your enemies.
Cone-area and coil-area are your friends.

Obviously some amount of excursion and power will always be required.

It takes about ~32watts to push 32 18's to 1mm, and it takes about ~3200watts to push 1 18 to 32mm's; and both are the same SPL!

The single 18 farting and melting in seconds/minutes, and the large array is bass-for-days with zero distortion.
and then what happens when the 32 18's goes to 10mm's? EXACTLY!
BassThatHz is offline  
post #19 of 29 Old 06-24-2019, 05:00 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Wow, you guys sure do bring a lot of information to the table! Every time I hit the refresh button it seems like I am going to rethink things.

Here are some photos of the space with some dimensions. As you can see, it is an extremely shared space, so I am somewhat limited as to what I can get away with. Also, the wife already thinks we have more than enough so that is my biggest hurdle right now. Thankfully my kids are getting bigger so I can get rid of a bunch of the bigger toys that we dont need.

I am thinking I have a couple options:

1: Add single UM18 in modified marty along chaise section of couch to work with UM15. Remove SVS. This is the easiest. and probably most likely to get approval.

2: Add dual UM18 behind sofa. It looks like I can get something between a full and mini marty there. Remove SVS/UM15 up front. Build small-ish MBM to sit next to the main LR. I would plan to use the UM for sub-60hz, then the mbm 60-200hz. The thing that worries me here is that I have never experienced nearfield, and worry that it isnt going to be something I like.

3: Build dual marty UM18 in the back of the room flanking bookshelf. Remove SVS/UM15. Add MBM up front. The concern here is the distance from the listening position, as well as having both subs on the same plane (room issues).

4: Not sure how this would work, amd may be completely pointless to mention. The 47" wall that sits next to the UM15 has a storage room behind it, as well as the wall behind the TV is open storage space. Is there a way to port into the room? I could potentially cut holes in the wall and build back there. I could get a 4'wx2d'x7h' box back there, however I would have to plan the ports around the studs (16" on center). This would be a great way to go, but Im just not sure how much loss it would have not having the woofer in the same room.

I really wish that I could go all out and just go with a ton of subs. but until I get a truly dedicated theater, I have some serious constraints to deal with.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	room dimensions-01.jpg
Views:	23
Size:	1.53 MB
ID:	2583760   Click image for larger version

Name:	room dimensions-02.jpg
Views:	28
Size:	1.06 MB
ID:	2583762  

Last edited by Jon C; 06-24-2019 at 05:04 AM. Reason: Added photos
Jon C is offline  
post #20 of 29 Old 06-24-2019, 05:41 AM
Senior Member
 
4fit?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Burlington, NC
Posts: 284
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Liked: 47
Since #4 is an option, definitely look into an Infinite Baffle setup. This would also keep that WAF super high as there could be potentially zero sub enclosures in the room.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
4fit? is offline  
post #21 of 29 Old 06-24-2019, 11:36 AM
Member
 
lloyd401's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Middle TN
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4fit? View Post
Since #4 is an option, definitely look into an Infinite Baffle setup. This would also keep that WAF super high as there could be potentially zero sub enclosures in the room.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Agreed, I just put in 4 FI 18s, it's quite impressive and no box in the room.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Marantz SR6011 * Outlaw Model 750 * M&K S-150 LCR * M&K SS-150 Surrounds * M&K 750 Back Surrounds * JBL In Ceiling Atmos * FI IB318v2 x4
lloyd401 is offline  
post #22 of 29 Old 06-25-2019, 07:07 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 3
So the IB really has me intrigued. Ive built plenty of sealed and ported, but never IB. How do you model this in WinISD so I get a better idea of response? I dont think I will be able to get away with front mounting these due to the studs. However, I have seen several installs where they are baffled into a large slot in the wall. I can probably do this with 2 woofers in each between my studs (I can probably convince the wife that it is easy to patch up later if we need to remove them). One concern I have is how much pressure does it build up behind the space? Will I need to add soundproofing to the back side room to prevent it from have 120 db of sound going into random parts of the house?

I will have an inuke 6000, so I would assume a set of fi IB318 2 ohm in series would be a good option. Each "box" would get its own channel on the amp and I should have a little headroom. I am going to have to measure, but I may be able to place each one of these directly behind the front LR, or I can go on the right wall (measures 47" wide). I think that behind the TV wall is about a 24-28" gap to the foundation wall, so Ill have to double check to make sure it fits.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IB wall layout-01.jpg
Views:	19
Size:	192.2 KB
ID:	2584298  
Jon C is offline  
post #23 of 29 Old 06-25-2019, 07:32 AM
Advanced Member
 
Red Five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 798
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 395 Post(s)
Liked: 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon C View Post
So the IB really has me intrigued. Ive built plenty of sealed and ported, but never IB. How do you model this in WinISD so I get a better idea of response? I dont think I will be able to get away with front mounting these due to the studs. However, I have seen several installs where they are baffled into a large slot in the wall. I can probably do this with 2 woofers in each between my studs (I can probably convince the wife that it is easy to patch up later if we need to remove them). One concern I have is how much pressure does it build up behind the space? Will I need to add soundproofing to the back side room to prevent it from have 120 db of sound going into random parts of the house?

I will have an inuke 6000, so I would assume a set of fi IB318 2 ohm in series would be a good option. Each "box" would get its own channel on the amp and I should have a little headroom. I am going to have to measure, but I may be able to place each one of these directly behind the front LR, or I can go on the right wall (measures 47" wide). I think that behind the TV wall is about a 24-28" gap to the foundation wall, so Ill have to double check to make sure it fits.

If I recall correctly for modeling IB in WinISD just select the sealed option and put a really large box volume in, like 5000 cuft. Since the box is essentially the room. IBs can be awesome for WAF
-John

Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | B.M.D. (in progress)
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen
Red Five is offline  
post #24 of 29 Old 06-25-2019, 07:58 AM
Senior Member
 
Mocs123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 455
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 154 Post(s)
Liked: 56
I hadn't thought of this, but this is an excellent idea, especially in situations like this where big subs can't be "hidden" behind a screen wall.

7.1.4 Theater Room (In Progress): JVC-RS46U, Silver Ticket AT 2.35:1 142”, Onkyo RZ830, Anthem PVA-7, Panasonic DBT-110, JBL Studio 270’s, 4 - 15" DIY Sealed Subs

3.1 Living Room: Samsung 64” F8500 Plasma, Anthem MRX 300, Dynaudio Audience 52’s, Dynaudio Audience 122C, NHT SubOne
Mocs123 is offline  
post #25 of 29 Old 06-26-2019, 04:48 AM
Member
 
lloyd401's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Middle TN
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon C View Post
So the IB really has me intrigued. Ive built plenty of sealed and ported, but never IB. How do you model this in WinISD so I get a better idea of response? I dont think I will be able to get away with front mounting these due to the studs. However, I have seen several installs where they are baffled into a large slot in the wall. I can probably do this with 2 woofers in each between my studs (I can probably convince the wife that it is easy to patch up later if we need to remove them). One concern I have is how much pressure does it build up behind the space? Will I need to add soundproofing to the back side room to prevent it from have 120 db of sound going into random parts of the house?



I will have an inuke 6000, so I would assume a set of fi IB318 2 ohm in series would be a good option. Each "box" would get its own channel on the amp and I should have a little headroom. I am going to have to measure, but I may be able to place each one of these directly behind the front LR, or I can go on the right wall (measures 47" wide). I think that behind the TV wall is about a 24-28" gap to the foundation wall, so Ill have to double check to make sure it fits.
I did one large slot on the side wall for mine, it was recommended to me to do one in the front middle ceiling on another forum but it didnt measure well there.
I have noticed some things moved around in my attic after a loudish listening session, nothing major but the back wave is the same as the front so keep that it mind.

Btw, the extension on these is crazy and music sounds better than any sub I've ever heard. I jumped in blind having never heard an IB setup before and would do it again in a second.


Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
notfastenough and Mocs123 like this.

Marantz SR6011 * Outlaw Model 750 * M&K S-150 LCR * M&K SS-150 Surrounds * M&K 750 Back Surrounds * JBL In Ceiling Atmos * FI IB318v2 x4
lloyd401 is offline  
post #26 of 29 Old 06-26-2019, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Wow, that looks really nice. Do you have any shots from the room a little further back? How big is that hole in the drywall? It looks like you just have that mounted straight onto the studs. Did you reinforce that wall at all? Mine is just plain studded with drywall, and Im a bit nervous how much it may stress the wall if I anchor to it. Are these in a push/pull configuration or are they in phase with each other? How hard was it to mount them in through the front? I dont know what the depth of the woofer is, and I just want to be sure Ill be able to mount it through the front.

You mentioned that it didnt measure very well in the center. How were you able to test this case without cutting through the walls. I know that I could do a sub crawl, but it seems like that wouldnt work well considering where these would be located. I have a couple places that I am considering mounting these and Id like to get a good idea to know which would be best.
Jon C is offline  
post #27 of 29 Old 06-26-2019, 12:54 PM
Member
 
lloyd401's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Middle TN
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon C View Post
Wow, that looks really nice. Do you have any shots from the room a little further back? How big is that hole in the drywall? It looks like you just have that mounted straight onto the studs. Did you reinforce that wall at all? Mine is just plain studded with drywall, and Im a bit nervous how much it may stress the wall if I anchor to it. Are these in a push/pull configuration or are they in phase with each other? How hard was it to mount them in through the front? I dont know what the depth of the woofer is, and I just want to be sure Ill be able to mount it through the front.



You mentioned that it didnt measure very well in the center. How were you able to test this case without cutting through the walls. I know that I could do a sub crawl, but it seems like that wouldnt work well considering where these would be located. I have a couple places that I am considering mounting these and Id like to get a good idea to know which would be best.
Thank you, the hole is 13.5" by 42". Its resting on a very large double support beam so it carries the weight. I've since added some bracing to the bottom and top around the enclosure.
They are in phase with each other with the idea being that their waves will help cancel out vibration but it's still 4 high excursion 18s so it does shake the wall. And the floor. And the projector.
As for mounting, I predrilled the holes to make it easier but it would help to have someone hold it in place from behind while you mount them. They're barely shallow enough to get the 2nd one in across from the 1st mounted one since the surround is so big.
I used the good ole fashioned sub crawl as well, moved the couch and put the sub at mlp and stood on a ladder up by the ceiling with my meter. I wanted to do 2 manifolds on each side of the ceiling/attic but the joists and roofline wouldn't allow it. Side wall sounds great a mb d was much easier to boot.
Here's a couple more pics, I hollowed out one of my absorption panels to hide it, worked out pretty well.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Mocs123 likes this.

Marantz SR6011 * Outlaw Model 750 * M&K S-150 LCR * M&K SS-150 Surrounds * M&K 750 Back Surrounds * JBL In Ceiling Atmos * FI IB318v2 x4
lloyd401 is offline  
post #28 of 29 Old 06-27-2019, 04:31 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Your install is almost identical to what I am thinking of doing, right down to the cover over the top. Im going to have to hide the hole by some wort of removable screen, but that will get figured out in the end. Im going to try and do a crawl soon to figure out where I will be able to mount these. Im thinking I should be able to put it in the corner where my current UM15 is, which was fairly ideal for that driver. There is some odd studding back there though. My one concern is going to be depth as I only have 22" behind the studs (it opens to larger areas on the sides). Although, this may work in my favor as I can potentially brace the box right into the foundation wall to reduce some vibrations. Ill try to get some photos of that area soon, although Im heading on vacation for a week tomorrow so it may be a while.

Thanks again for all the help and information. Im thinking I will also need to start considering some sound dampening in the back, as I have a big HVAC trunk that runs though the area and is going to vibrate.
Jon C is offline  
post #29 of 29 Old 06-27-2019, 08:21 PM
Senior Member
 
sassuki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 294
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 84 Post(s)
Liked: 190
Do a search for badwater basin here on AVS. Michael’s bass is some of my favorite I’ve experienced. The way he hid the IB manifolds under old fashioned floor vents really works well. Just another option for you to consider in your IB quest.
sassuki is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off