Do I need to hire someone to fix the DFB for the full marty? (pics inside) - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 79 Old 06-29-2019, 03:57 PM
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Thank you so much!
If in doubt, just give it the blow test by trying to blow air through it with your mouth.
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post #32 of 79 Old 06-30-2019, 09:57 AM
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I saw and then did this about 6 years ago. . .
for 3 THTLP's and my 2 Lhorns

requires some extra time wrt spot-on alignment, virtual pre-assembly for zero defects in hitting all the right points for seating, sealing

threads should be chased with a tap no matter how careful you are

5 minute epoxy
and a anti-rotation screw

it's gonna say put . . .
My 2 cents on the t-nuts issue. Do what asarose247 shows in his pic. The PL glue may not be enough on its own! Trust me I know from experience (2 times) what happens when you push the t-nut down and it loses it's grip from the wood. It is not pretty for your blood pressure or the resulting damage to the sub itself!

Edit: If you are using a plate amp on your sub (unless you have a sealed section the plate amp fits into) the whole t-nut breaking free issue will just cost you a little time. If like most of us here on AVS you are most likely using a terminal cup or a couple of holes for binding posts. In either case I doubt the hole is big enough to get your hand or even a tool of some sort through it to help.

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post #33 of 79 Old 06-30-2019, 10:39 AM
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PL3 and metal is generally not a goto as there are better ways for that wood-metal fixin'

iirc, in that'st he onliest way ( yeah- it's not a word but i like it . .)
the metal needs to be given some good tooth and misted with water and then lightly wiped, leave a lay a few molecules thick

and then the pl applied.
someone could test JB weld on wood and metal and get back to us. .

the bolts securing the driver need to be snug but - c'mon, try to be sensible , have some faith in the gasket material

you can test the sealed driver perimeter by running a low sine wave to the driver, maybe 25- 30 ish hz using REW, moderate power
using a piece of 1/4" or 5/16th's tubing
stick one end almost in to your ear

and trace the perimeter/sealed are with the other end

the low freq and driver motion will reveal any seal leakage by the sound of the puffs coming thru the leak thru the tubing up to your ear
that process courtesy of Bill Fitzmaurice as detailed in his really, really thorough fail-safe DIY plans

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post #34 of 79 Old 07-01-2019, 03:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you both for the help!

What is the best wiring option for 2 full martys?
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post #35 of 79 Old 07-01-2019, 12:58 PM
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Thank you both for the help!



What is the best wiring option for 2 full martys?
I like speakon connectors and 12 gauge wire

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post #36 of 79 Old 07-04-2019, 04:45 PM - Thread Starter
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I like speakon connectors and 12 gauge wire

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No other internal wiring stuff I need to do? Just direct connections?
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post #37 of 79 Old 07-04-2019, 06:17 PM
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No other internal wiring stuff I need to do? Just direct connections?
What amp are you using. I'm guess the um is dual Voice coil 2 ohm

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post #38 of 79 Old 07-04-2019, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by sealmaniac View Post
My 2 cents on the t-nuts issue. Do what asarose247 shows in his pic. The PL glue may not be enough on its own! Trust me I know from experience (2 times) what happens when you push the t-nut down and it loses it's grip from the wood. It is not pretty for your blood pressure or the resulting damage to the sub itself!

Edit: If you are using a plate amp on your sub (unless you have a sealed section the plate amp fits into) the whole t-nut breaking free issue will just cost you a little time. If like most of us here on AVS you are most likely using a terminal cup or a couple of holes for binding posts. In either case I doubt the hole is big enough to get your hand or even a tool of some sort through it to help.
To me T-Nuts are an abomination. Screws work so well, are so simple, and have no downsides. T-Nuts have disaster written all over them, so many things that can go wrong. From breaking loose to alignment, lots of issues can rise. I've seen arguments that T-Nuts are useful if you take driver in and out a lot, but I don't know who does this, and if you use a second block of wood behind the baffle, you can always knock it off and replace. Or rotate the driver a little bit and use fresh wood spots.
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post #39 of 79 Old 07-04-2019, 10:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by hd0823 View Post
What amp are you using. I'm guess the um is dual Voice coil 2 ohm

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NX 6000.

In the FAQ it was saying it can be wired in stereo or bridge.





https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...tysub-faq.html

Bottom part here.
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post #40 of 79 Old 07-05-2019, 02:54 AM
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Originally Posted by TIV13 View Post
NX 6000.



In the FAQ it was saying it can be wired in stereo or bridge.











https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...tysub-faq.html



Bottom part here.
I'm not familiar with the new nx6000 I know the older ones the 3000 could be bridged but not the 6000. You'll want to run a jumper from the positive of one voice coil to the negative of the other to get the 4ohm load.

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post #41 of 79 Old 07-05-2019, 10:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by hd0823 View Post
I'm not familiar with the new nx6000 I know the older ones the 3000 could be bridged but not the 6000. You'll want to run a jumper from the positive of one voice coil to the negative of the other to get the 4ohm load.

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What is a jumper? And what is the benefit of a 4 ohm load? Is there a place I can read up on that? I dont understand a lot of the jargon yet. Sorry and thank you for helping me.
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post #42 of 79 Old 07-06-2019, 06:31 AM
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Generally speaking, in electronics, a jumper is an electrical connection between two points in a circuit. More specific, in this case, a jumper refers to connecting the negative terminal of one voice coil to the positive terminal of the second voice coil. So you'd connect the positive lead from your speaker wire to the positive terminal of the first voice coil, then connect the negative terminal of the first voice coil to the positive terminal of the second voice coil (using a jumper wire) and then the negative terminal of the second voice coil to the negative lead of the speaker cable. Since each voice coil is 2ohms, this wiring scheme will have the voice coils wired in series for a total of 2+2=4ohms. If you wired the voice coils in parallel (positive to positive and negative to negative), you'd have 1ohm and the amp (at least the 6000) can't drive that low of an impedance. 4ohms gets the most out of the amp (power-wise) while still being an acceptable load. Hope that helps.
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post #43 of 79 Old 07-07-2019, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by smcmillan2 View Post
No disrespect to anyone using other fasteners, but in my case I have found using #8 pan head screws have held all my drivers in place.

Your use case may dictate stronger fasteners, my sealed UM18s have been fine so far. We listen at -20 to -10 so take that into consideration. Horses for courses, everyone has different issues/requirements.
Well speaking as someone who's seen wood screws in car stereos after a crash, I'd use T-nuts and bolt screws 100% of the time no matter the intended use for the subwoofer. Then the driver won't come loose in transport or accident. It can be a dangerous projectile even if it just falls on your foot ten years from now after your third time putting the subwoofer back into place.

EDIT: It also feels so right to just zip the bolt into the T-nut. Especially knowing the T-nut is fastened on the other side with two-component glue on a piece of solid lumber so the T-nut won't drop out when you stick the bolt in, and the bolt won't get pulled out in any event from now until the end of time. Its like putting on a fresh pair of sneakers. Once you've done it then the wood screws will feel like sticking your feet into some rental bowling shoes filled with canned cheese :P

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rms, aka driver diaphragm suspension mechanical resistance: 6.41 Newton.sec/meter. (higher number is better)

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post #44 of 79 Old 07-07-2019, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by ronny31 View Post
Well speaking as someone who's seen wood screws in car stereos after a crash, I'd use T-nuts and bolt screws 100% of the time no matter the intended use for the subwoofer. Then the driver won't come loose in transport or accident. It can be a dangerous projectile even if it just falls on your foot ten years from now after your third time putting the subwoofer back into place.

EDIT: It also feels so right to just zip the bolt into the T-nut. Especially knowing the T-nut is fastened on the other side with two-component glue on a piece of solid lumber so the T-nut won't drop out when you stick the bolt in, and the bolt won't get pulled out in any event from now until the end of time. Its like putting on a fresh pair of sneakers. Once you've done it then the wood screws will feel like sticking your feet into some rental bowling shoes filled with canned cheese :P
You are the first person I've ever heard of that said that like it's a bad thing... Cheese shoe bowling is amazing
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post #45 of 79 Old 07-08-2019, 03:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jcmccorm View Post
Generally speaking, in electronics, a jumper is an electrical connection between two points in a circuit. More specific, in this case, a jumper refers to connecting the negative terminal of one voice coil to the positive terminal of the second voice coil. So you'd connect the positive lead from your speaker wire to the positive terminal of the first voice coil, then connect the negative terminal of the first voice coil to the positive terminal of the second voice coil (using a jumper wire) and then the negative terminal of the second voice coil to the negative lead of the speaker cable. Since each voice coil is 2ohms, this wiring scheme will have the voice coils wired in series for a total of 2+2=4ohms. If you wired the voice coils in parallel (positive to positive and negative to negative), you'd have 1ohm and the amp (at least the 6000) can't drive that low of an impedance. 4ohms gets the most out of the amp (power-wise) while still being an acceptable load. Hope that helps.
yes it does thank you. However I have more questions.

I am running dual full martys. is there a diagram or drawing I can look at to see the exact way to wire these guys? I also have speckon connector, which has +1 -1 +2 -2 and I dont know which ones to wire for what.
Sorry for being a pain and I really appreciate your assistance. Thank you.

Also what do I use to drill the hole for the speckon connector? I saw someone say I need a 1 inch hole. I'm very unhandy if you can't tell.
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post #46 of 79 Old 07-08-2019, 04:30 AM
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yes it does thank you. However I have more questions.

I am running dual full martys. is there a diagram or drawing I can look at to see the exact way to wire these guys? I also have speckon connector, which has +1 -1 +2 -2 and I dont know which ones to wire for what.
Sorry for being a pain and I really appreciate your assistance. Thank you.

Also what do I use to drill the hole for the speckon connector? I saw someone say I need a 1 inch hole. I'm very unhandy if you can't tell.
Ask questions! It's what we're all here for (to learn about this stuff and pass it around).

I drilled 1" holes for mine and although it worked fine, there was some slop; it didn't fit snugly into the hole. I believe that 15/16" is the proper hole size but who has that drill bit? (well somebody here does for sure but I don't). Lay the drill bit against the body of the connector and make sure the drill bit is equal to or slightly larger that the diameter of the connector "barrel" but not so large that the connector's flange won't be wide enough to allow the mounting screws to have some "meat" left over to screw into.

What amp are you using? I'm pretty sure that you'll be using +1 and -1 on the connector. Inside the sub cabinet, you'll wire the +1 from the speakon connector to the "+" terminal of one of the voice coils (doesn't matter which one). Then wire the "-" of that voice coil to the "+" of the other one. Then wire the "-" terminal of that second voice coil back to the -1 on the speakon connector.

Are you making your own cables or buying them? Which one's (and which amp)?
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post #47 of 79 Old 07-08-2019, 04:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Ask questions! It's what we're all here for (to learn about this stuff and pass it around).

I drilled 1" holes for mine and although it worked fine, there was some slop; it didn't fit snugly into the hole. I believe that 15/16" is the proper hole size but who has that drill bit? (well somebody here does for sure but I don't). Lay the drill bit against the body of the connector and make sure the drill bit is equal to or slightly larger that the diameter of the connector "barrel" but not so large that the connector's flange won't be wide enough to allow the mounting screws to have some "meat" left over to screw into.

What amp are you using? I'm pretty sure that you'll be using +1 and -1 on the connector. Inside the sub cabinet, you'll wire the +1 from the speakon connector to the "+" terminal of one of the voice coils (doesn't matter which one). Then wire the "-" of that voice coil to the "+" of the other one. Then wire the "-" terminal of that second voice coil back to the -1 on the speakon connector.

Are you making your own cables or buying them? Which one's (and which amp)?
What is the adapter or drill bit called that you used to drill the 1" hole?

my amp is NU6000.
I ordered these cables.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Is this diagram by chance any where near being right?
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post #48 of 79 Old 07-08-2019, 05:17 AM
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What is the adapter or drill bit called that you used to drill the 1" hole?
Search for "15/16 spade bit"

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Originally Posted by TIV13
Is this diagram by chance any where near being right?
To produce a 4 ohm load that is the correct wiring, yes.

Sub builds: Yet another Infinity 1260 build | Twins! | Modified V.B.S.S. build | UM12-22 builds | AV stand and sealed UM18s

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post #49 of 79 Old 07-08-2019, 09:29 AM
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What is the adapter or drill bit called that you used to drill the 1" hole?

my amp is NU6000.
I ordered these cables.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Is this diagram by chance any where near being right?
Your RCA<->XLR cable is the same one I'm using (I am using two of them). Good choice.

I'm not familiar with the speakon cable (I built mine) and I couldn't find anything about the wiring on the reviews or questions. I *assume* the two conductors are wired to +1 (positive) and -1 (negative).

Your wiring diagram is correct. The only difference is that you'll be using the speakon connector instead of the speaker terminal that are shown in the picture.
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post #50 of 79 Old 07-08-2019, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Raylon View Post
To me T-Nuts are an abomination. Screws work so well, are so simple, and have no downsides. T-Nuts have disaster written all over them, so many things that can go wrong. From breaking loose to alignment, lots of issues can rise. I've seen arguments that T-Nuts are useful if you take driver in and out a lot, but I don't know who does this, and if you use a second block of wood behind the baffle, you can always knock it off and replace. Or rotate the driver a little bit and use fresh wood spots.
T-nuts have their place, but I used these. No chance of pushing them through under normal circumstances. Overkill? Definitely.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002KSZ13G/



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In MDF its not overkill with T-nuts. MDF just disintegrates with each time the screws are taken out and put back.

If you're never going to touch them again in your lifetime, sure you can skimp on T-nuts. But otherwise that is not how subwoofers are treated. Over time you move around your enclosures, maybe sell them to someone else, who has to lift them up and down staircases and onto pickup tricks and so forth, every time giving them slight knocks and bangs which imparts force on the screws which disintegrates the weakling MDF material just around the screw threads. Maybe they have to tip the enclosure weirdly to get it through a door or staicase, so the driver is facing downwards, held in place only by the tiny threads on the screws.
Until one day there's a knock or bump or jolt which was the final straw. And some subwoofers can be 40-50 lbs each, just the driver itself, once that gets moving towards the floor it'll absolutely destroy anything between the subwoofer and the hard place.

And not forget, you build the enclosure to hold the subwoofer in place in the worst case scenarios of the future. Even if the MDF gets water damage or animal damage or people damage. You can't even be exactly sure that the next sheet of MDF you use has the same strength as the previous ones, you didn't personally see how the MDF sheet was stored since manufacturing.

So you go a little bit beyond what you probably need in terms of strength. That's just sane engineering. Not overkill.

Overkill would be going 12 awg speaker cable where 14 awg would be more than sufficient for the wattage and distance. Its not like you'll find yourself dangling out the window of nakatomi plaza, only holding onto the 12 awg speaker wire you decided to waste money on
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cms, aka driver diaphragm suspension mechanical compliance: 0.000065 meter/Newton or in standard form 6.5e-05 m/N. (smaller number is better)
rms, aka driver diaphragm suspension mechanical resistance: 6.41 Newton.sec/meter. (higher number is better)
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In MDF its not overkill with T-nuts. MDF just disintegrates with each time the screws are taken out and put back.
I just turn the driver a few degrees if I need to remove and reinstall it. With a few wooden blocks behind the baffle, some long wood screws aren't going anywhere. How many times have you removed a deck screw and found it to be 'loose'? Worst issues I've had with screws is having to give a few screws a half turn a week or two after firing up a new unit, as I was a bit gentle on them from the start and didn't tighten the driver down flush to the MDF by accident.

It only takes one misaligned T-nut of sorts (where the bolt binds) or one T-nut to slip, and you are basically out an entire panel of your enclosure unless you get lucky. If a wood screw strips you can always just rotate the driver a bit and try again.

I wouldn't call T-nuts overkill, but I personally toss them in the group of "not necessary, and a potential source of massive headache". Wood screws can be an annoyance, but won't ruin your day assuming you don't put a screw or bit through your driver surround. Both will do the job in the end.

'Sane engineering' would require evaluating the potential risks vs the potential rewards of a given decision, and I personally don't see the risks and effort of the T-nuts being worth the potential rewards as compared to decent wood screws.

My $0.02

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post #53 of 79 Old 07-09-2019, 01:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Heide264 View Post
I just turn the driver a few degrees if I need to remove and reinstall it. With a few wooden blocks behind the baffle, some long wood screws aren't going anywhere. How many times have you removed a deck screw and found it to be 'loose'? Worst issues I've had with screws is having to give a few screws a half turn a week or two after firing up a new unit, as I was a bit gentle on them from the start and didn't tighten the driver down flush to the MDF by accident.

It only takes one misaligned T-nut of sorts (where the bolt binds) or one T-nut to slip, and you are basically out an entire panel of your enclosure unless you get lucky. If a wood screw strips you can always just rotate the driver a bit and try again.

I wouldn't call T-nuts overkill, but I personally toss them in the group of "not necessary, and a potential source of massive headache". Wood screws can be an annoyance, but won't ruin your day assuming you don't put a screw or bit through your driver surround. Both will do the job in the end.

'Sane engineering' would require evaluating the potential risks vs the potential rewards of a given decision, and I personally don't see the risks and effort of the T-nuts being worth the potential rewards as compared to decent wood screws.

My $0.02
I found the T-nuts extremely easy to align 100 of 100 times. I always install the panels in such a manner that I still have access behind the baffle so I install the driver and the T-nuts and zip the bolts in and get perfect alignment. 100% of the time. With the basket as the washer on your bolt you can make sure you pull the T-nut properly into the wood as well, and apply a bit of two-component glue on the back of the T-nut so it can't fall out the next time you jam a bolt into it.

Then again I build systems where it is guaranteed that some day the driver will have to be replaced in a hurry before the next song comes on at the party. So I consider the enclosure the permanent bit, the drivers are the socks you replace when they're worn out.

PS: Yes, I agree, wood blocks behind the baffle so your screws have something to bite on, then you can have the reliability of T-nuts (or most of it) with wood screws. But I'd use the house-building wood screw sizes (80mm+). I'd have no problems with selling a professional system with 80mm wood screws holding the drivers in 80mm of plywood.
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cms, aka driver diaphragm suspension mechanical compliance: 0.000065 meter/Newton or in standard form 6.5e-05 m/N. (smaller number is better)
rms, aka driver diaphragm suspension mechanical resistance: 6.41 Newton.sec/meter. (higher number is better)
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post #54 of 79 Old 07-10-2019, 06:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jcmccorm View Post
Your RCA<->XLR cable is the same one I'm using (I am using two of them). Good choice.

I'm not familiar with the speakon cable (I built mine) and I couldn't find anything about the wiring on the reviews or questions. I *assume* the two conductors are wired to +1 (positive) and -1 (negative).

Your wiring diagram is correct. The only difference is that you'll be using the speakon connector instead of the speaker terminal that are shown in the picture.
do i need to put silicone sealent around the connector?
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post #55 of 79 Old 07-11-2019, 02:23 AM - Thread Starter
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How do I connect the speaker wire to the connector? Spades? I'm unable to solder.
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post #56 of 79 Old 07-11-2019, 04:23 AM
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How do I connect the speaker wire to the connector? Spades? I'm unable to solder.
You just put the wire in and crimp it down

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post #57 of 79 Old 07-11-2019, 04:49 AM - Thread Starter
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You just put the wire in and crimp it down

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Sorry, what do I put the wire in? Can you be specific please.
Also what chairs do you have? They look really awesome.
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post #58 of 79 Old 07-11-2019, 05:08 AM
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How do I connect the speaker wire to the connector? Spades? I'm unable to solder.
Yes, spades. I'm sorry that I don't remember the size. I know that my local auto-parts store had them.
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post #59 of 79 Old 07-11-2019, 07:29 AM
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how do i connect the speaker wire to the connector? Spades? I'm unable to solder.
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yes, spades. I'm sorry that i don't remember the size. I know that my local auto-parts store had them.
3/16"

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post #60 of 79 Old 07-11-2019, 07:55 AM
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Sorry, what do I put the wire in? Can you be specific please.

Also what chairs do you have? They look really awesome.
Thanks there starcraft meridians from 4seating. Here's a picture wire just goes in the hole on the one end just use some wire stripers strip a small amount off and feed wire in than crimp down

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