Volt-6 Surround tabletop-concept - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 27 Old 07-03-2019, 07:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Volt-6 Surround tabletop-concept

See Mockup. Is it possible laminate the sides of a box with smooth rounded radius edges? Or should I do my best to stain the Baltic birch to see if I can match the Brighton Walnut 1099s?



Concept overview:

Ideally it should rotate 180 degrees horizontally to dial into the two main MLP positions while keeping the base square to the VBSS marble tile. (Possibly a cylindrical center shaft)

The cardboard mockup came out a bit bigger than I originally hoped in the sketch but it is growing on me.

Main enclosure:
10" wide, 9.5" deep, 7.75" high
Comes out to the same volume as the full size ported flatpacks enclosure. (port will be installed on rear.

3/4 MDF Baffle / 1/2 baltic birch enclosure

Laminate: Dark walnut baffle, matte black top and sides.

I was considering a white base or aluminum port if I can find one.

Any ideas? Thoughts?

Bedroom Audio: Two Shallow Under Bed PA310-8 12's energized by an SPA250DSP Plate Amp. Two BST-1s. 75 Watt 7.1 Onkyo AVR with Five Martin Logan MLT-2 LCR & Surrounds.
Living Room Audio: One Behringer NX6000D flexing four PA460-8's in a contemporary VBSS credenza build, 100 Watt 5.1 Sony AVR zapping Three horizontal Elusive 1099s LCRs and Two Martin Logan MLT-2 Surrounds. Two BST-1 Bass Shakers charged by the MLT-2 Sub Amp.

Last edited by kagtha; 07-03-2019 at 08:30 AM.
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post #2 of 27 Old 07-03-2019, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kagtha View Post
See Mockup. Is it possible laminate the sides of a box with smooth rounded radius edges? Or should I do my best to stain the Baltic birch to see if I can match the Brighton Walnut 1099s?
Would have to be some large radiuses/radii to get it to bend and stick to the substrate, and would require vertical- or postform-grade laminate.

Easiest way to handle this is to form whatever edges you want rounded over with real wood, then apply laminate to the entire box, then route your roundovers, then stain the exposed wood to match the laminate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kagtha
Main enclosure:
10" wide, 9.5" deep, 7.75" high
Comes out to the same volume as the full size ported flatpacks enclosure. (port will be installed on rear.
I wouldn't rear port it (ask me how I know - Hint: I mention it in my Volt-6 build thread). You'll likely lose much of the bass that you would otherwise get from the front-ported enclosure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kagtha
3/4 MDF Baffle / 1/2 baltic birch enclosure

Laminate: Dark walnut baffle, matte black top and sides.

I was considering a white base or aluminum port if I can find one.

Any ideas? Thoughts?
What edges are you thinking of rounding over? If just the front baffle edges you could make that out of solid walnut and not worry about laminate. Roundover to your heart's content at that point.

Or, reverse the color scheme, similar to my Fusion-8 center - Build the box including the baffle, laminate the box sides/back/top/bottom up to the baffle front edge, roundover baffle edges, paint baffle with Duratex or similar.
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post #3 of 27 Old 07-03-2019, 01:01 PM
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.02

looks like a lot of WAF to contend with- imo

a 1 1/2", 6/4's, layered oak, oak , or matched wood to the end tables, and marble/granite (?) circular base that can help / hide / conceal / mount the rotational post assembly and add weight for stability

the squarish form of the cab adds to stability over all, I like that thought, wrt weight distribution

the port in the rear thing and the missing bass

( insert port in the rear joke here)-

once BM is engaged,it's very likely they would get an xo of at least 100 if not even up to 120

you maybe don't want or need that sort of directionally noticeable bass , since they are going to be really near, like 5+ feet if that much
(this from the guy with 88 Specials as surrounds at about 7 feet) (xo is 100)
so maybe a rear port , for aesthetics, of course, a possibility
no port would simplify and allow for a custom magnet(?) mounted grill of a complimentary nature

a thin circular top plate of the stand, could be recessed into a thickened 'bottom' and maybe eliminate the need for the rotating post option
it might add to the over all height and width but for wanting to add fat ass rounded edges, that extra exterior added on wood may give you some more striking options, like getting up to 1 1/2'"-ish roundover
look

HTH
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post #4 of 27 Old 07-25-2019, 05:34 PM - Thread Starter
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I need some professional help.

Is 1/8" thick aluminum rigid enough for the top and bottom of a 10"x10" enclosure or should I laminate some 1/2 birch to it?? (It certainly feels like it doesn't flex, especially with a dowel a bit off-center.)

And what glue should I use!? I hope this is feasible, I have already fell in love with the look of it.

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Bedroom Audio: Two Shallow Under Bed PA310-8 12's energized by an SPA250DSP Plate Amp. Two BST-1s. 75 Watt 7.1 Onkyo AVR with Five Martin Logan MLT-2 LCR & Surrounds.
Living Room Audio: One Behringer NX6000D flexing four PA460-8's in a contemporary VBSS credenza build, 100 Watt 5.1 Sony AVR zapping Three horizontal Elusive 1099s LCRs and Two Martin Logan MLT-2 Surrounds. Two BST-1 Bass Shakers charged by the MLT-2 Sub Amp.
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post #5 of 27 Old 07-25-2019, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kagtha View Post
I need some professional help.

Is 1/8" thick aluminum rigid enough for the top and bottom of a 10"x10" enclosure or should I laminate some 1/2 birch to it?? (It certainly feels like it doesn't flex, especially with a dowel a bit off-center.)

And what glue should I use!? I hope this is feasible, I have already fell in love with the look of it.

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I'd suggest that an epoxy to glue aluminum to wood would be best. Tape off the wood carefully, so that any overflow is on the tape. JB Weld could be used, or even PL premium. 1/8" aluminum is fine, though you might want to put a small piece of self adhesive damping sheet on the inside of each piece.
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post #6 of 27 Old 07-25-2019, 06:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Extreme Heavy Duty Liquid Nails? Or go buy some more Gorilla Epoxy?

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Bedroom Audio: Two Shallow Under Bed PA310-8 12's energized by an SPA250DSP Plate Amp. Two BST-1s. 75 Watt 7.1 Onkyo AVR with Five Martin Logan MLT-2 LCR & Surrounds.
Living Room Audio: One Behringer NX6000D flexing four PA460-8's in a contemporary VBSS credenza build, 100 Watt 5.1 Sony AVR zapping Three horizontal Elusive 1099s LCRs and Two Martin Logan MLT-2 Surrounds. Two BST-1 Bass Shakers charged by the MLT-2 Sub Amp.
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post #7 of 27 Old 07-25-2019, 06:34 PM
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JB Weld or other epoxy would be my suggestion. In a test of adhesives, Liquid Nails scored lower than PL3x and PL8x.
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post #8 of 27 Old 07-26-2019, 01:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks again Michael. I am going to start calling you old faithful, thanks for the help my friend.

I just finished with the Volt 6 crossovers and am super curious if the 15 uF capacitor (see photo) will affect the sound at all since the gauge is significantly smaller than the rest of the components.

I won't be pushing more than 100 watts probably ever but am slightly concerned since every single part I have ever received from diysoundgroup had been nothing but top quality. (3 1099s, 2 HT-8s) This capacitor just looks and feels cheap comparatively.

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post #9 of 27 Old 07-26-2019, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smcmillan2 View Post



I wouldn't rear port it (ask me how I know - Hint: I mention it in my Volt-6 build thread). You'll likely lose much of the bass that you would otherwise get from the front-ported enclosure.


Do you think that carries over to other speakers? I prefer my front ported mirage speakers over my rear ported infinitys. Just strange to read that.

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post #10 of 27 Old 07-26-2019, 09:55 AM
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In a compromise between aesthetics and function, what about a downfiring port? The mock up and stands look like it wouldn't be too close to the table or base. Really like the idea of this build for the space it will be in. Great concept!!
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post #11 of 27 Old 07-26-2019, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by trilkb View Post
Do you think that carries over to other speakers? I prefer my front ported mirage speakers over my rear ported infinitys. Just strange to read that.
It certainly does. Read https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...l#post56845876, where I initially rear ported a Volt-6 I built as a center.

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post #12 of 27 Old 07-29-2019, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by smcmillan2 View Post
It certainly does. Read https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...l#post56845876, where I initially rear ported a Volt-6 I built as a center.

So I have a theory as to why the rear port on your Volt 6 center lost much of the bass, and in my opinion, with floor standing speakers it won't have the same kind of impact on output. The ported Volt 6s are tuned to what, somewhere around 70Hz (just a guess based on the the response range of 65Hz-20kHz)? That means the port contribution is coming into play at quite a high frequency, in the range that is very directional. Placing the port on the rear means these directional frequencies are coming out the back and have to bounce off the wall to get to the listeners. Considering the placement of your CC, this rear wave is mostly blocked or scattered, resulting in a loss of the lower frequencies.


For a ported floor standing speaker, tuned to low to mid 30Hz range, the port contribution deals mainly with omnidirectional frequencies, and therefore porting out the rear will not have nearly as much decreased volume of the low end, if any, as that of the Volt 6s. If the driver is playing mostly directional frequencies, then front ported makes sense to maximize the port contribution to the audience.
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post #13 of 27 Old 07-29-2019, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by drewp29 View Post
So I have a theory as to why the rear port on your Volt 6 center lost much of the bass, and in my opinion, with floor standing speakers it won't have the same kind of impact on output. The ported Volt 6s are tuned to what, somewhere around 70Hz (just a guess based on the the response range of 65Hz-20kHz)? That means the port contribution is coming into play at quite a high frequency, in the range that is very directional. Placing the port on the rear means these directional frequencies are coming out the back and have to bounce off the wall to get to the listeners.
Correct. As would be the case in use as surrounds as well in OP's case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drewp29
Considering the placement of your CC, this rear wave is mostly blocked or scattered, resulting in a loss of the lower frequencies.
The initial testing was with the Volt-6 "center" on a stand positioned as the right speaker, not setup as a center. Moved the port to the front, tested in the same position, and the difference was night and day.
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post #14 of 27 Old 07-30-2019, 11:14 AM
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[quote=smcmillan2;58355278]Correct. As would be the case in use as surrounds as well in OP's case.

Agreed, I was more referring to trilkb's question on whether that trend carries over to other speakers as well. I guess the answer would be 'it depends'. If you are dealing with a two-way in which the port tune is higher and the woofer is really a midrange (expected to be used with a subwoofer), then yes, it does carry over. If you are dealing with a 2 or 3-way in which the port tune is possibly 45Hz or lower (just a random number in the bass region), then I'd really have to throw the model into WinISD to see where the port contribution starts becoming the majority for output to tell whether a rear port would result in loss of the low end.


I just wanted to point that out so people wouldn't obsess over finding speakers with front ports for fear of losing the low end with a rear ported design.


Quote:
Originally Posted by smcmillan2 View Post
The initial testing was with the Volt-6 "center" on a stand positioned as the right speaker, not setup as a center. Moved the port to the front, tested in the same position, and the difference was night and day.

Interesting, I wonder if close proximity of the port to a wall would help that out, like possibly a foot or closer? If active with DSP, one could always time delay the high end and maybe get some low end back - if the design were already complete and one did not want to modify the cabinet to correct it?
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post #15 of 27 Old 07-30-2019, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewp29 View Post
Agreed, I was more referring to trilkb's question on whether that trend carries over to other speakers as well. I guess the answer would be 'it depends'. If you are dealing with a two-way in which the port tune is higher and the woofer is really a midrange (expected to be used with a subwoofer), then yes, it does carry over. If you are dealing with a 2 or 3-way in which the port tune is possibly 45Hz or lower (just a random number in the bass region), then I'd really have to throw the model into WinISD to see where the port contribution starts becoming the majority for output to tell whether a rear port would result in loss of the low end.

I just wanted to point that out so people wouldn't obsess over finding speakers with front ports for fear of losing the low end with a rear ported design.

Oh, yes, sorry, I see how that could be read that way. I made mention of it to point out that changing the design of a particular speaker could produce some serious changes to the intended FR.


Quote:
Originally Posted by drewp29
Interesting, I wonder if close proximity of the port to a wall would help that out, like possibly a foot or closer? If active with DSP, one could always time delay the high end and maybe get some low end back - if the design were already complete and one did not want to modify the cabinet to correct it?

Perhaps, but that's well above my pay grade. I leave speaker design to the experts, and now I know just enough to not alter them too drastically.

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post #16 of 27 Old 07-30-2019, 01:12 PM
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Oh, yes, sorry, I see how that could be read that way. I made mention of it to point out that changing the design of a particular speaker could produce some serious changes to the intended FR.
Understood, no worries!

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Perhaps, but that's well above my pay grade. I leave speaker design to the experts, and now I know just enough to not alter them too drastically.
I'm VERY near to completion of my L/C/R combo, just a small amount of veneering and some paint, and I will make a thread detailing the builds. Fully active on all three, since I didn't feel like mucking around with crossover design. I've helped with crossover designs on a few sets of speakers to date, but I am by no means an expert. However, they did come out sounding pretty good on all accounts. These should be even better given the DSP options I will have!

I'm calling them the ".38 Specials" (L&R) and the ".30Cal" (CC). It will probably be about a month before I get to posting them since I get limited time to work on things, and the girlfriend and I are headed to Jamaica in a couple weeks for vacation.


On topic - kagtha - Any progress on these? I like the idea and design!
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post #17 of 27 Old 08-13-2019, 02:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Is there anything I can do about this logo on the aluminum?

I am fast becoming attached to the look so far, so what was the consensus about port placement? It might help that it will be sitting on top of a VBSS.

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Living Room Audio: One Behringer NX6000D flexing four PA460-8's in a contemporary VBSS credenza build, 100 Watt 5.1 Sony AVR zapping Three horizontal Elusive 1099s LCRs and Two Martin Logan MLT-2 Surrounds. Two BST-1 Bass Shakers charged by the MLT-2 Sub Amp.
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post #18 of 27 Old 08-13-2019, 05:53 AM
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Love the 1099 in walls. did you make a backer box for inside the wall?
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post #19 of 27 Old 08-13-2019, 06:25 AM
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Love the 1099 in walls. did you make a backer box for inside the wall?
I agree. That looks great!
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post #20 of 27 Old 08-13-2019, 06:45 AM
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Looks like that logo is laser etched. Your options would be to sandblast the entire top (should give a similar texture) or paint (even then you might want to sandblast it first to promote adhesion).

Edit: if they are cheap enough, I'd buy an extra to try this out on beforehand to see if you're happy with the finish.
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post #21 of 27 Old 08-13-2019, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kagtha View Post
Is there anything I can do about this logo on the aluminum?

I am fast becoming attached to the look so far, so what was the consensus about port placement? It might help that it will be sitting on top of a VBSS.
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Seems like it goes this way Front Port > Any other port > Sealed

What about a slot port that is front facing? I'd think you are you're losing similar internal volume to the dual round ports and might look more to your liking. You could offset the driver high or low to make a little more room. Seems like any front port is the ideal situation.
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post #22 of 27 Old Yesterday, 01:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quick update.

Thanks for all the compliments and pertinent build info!

I just need to find time for final spot fills/sanding and assembly time it is!

I am taking my time on these since they might be my last build for awhile. At least until I "master" or at least understand what I already have so I can get the maximum benefit.

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Bedroom Audio: Two Shallow Under Bed PA310-8 12's energized by an SPA250DSP Plate Amp. Two BST-1s. 75 Watt 7.1 Onkyo AVR with Five Martin Logan MLT-2 LCR & Surrounds.
Living Room Audio: One Behringer NX6000D flexing four PA460-8's in a contemporary VBSS credenza build, 100 Watt 5.1 Sony AVR zapping Three horizontal Elusive 1099s LCRs and Two Martin Logan MLT-2 Surrounds. Two BST-1 Bass Shakers charged by the MLT-2 Sub Amp.

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post #23 of 27 Old Yesterday, 03:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewp29 View Post
So I have a theory as to why the rear port on your Volt 6 center lost much of the bass, and in my opinion, with floor standing speakers it won't have the same kind of impact on output. The ported Volt 6s are tuned to what, somewhere around 70Hz (just a guess based on the the response range of 65Hz-20kHz)? That means the port contribution is coming into play at quite a high frequency, in the range that is very directional. Placing the port on the rear means these directional frequencies are coming out the back and have to bounce off the wall to get to the listeners. Considering the placement of your CC, this rear wave is mostly blocked or scattered, resulting in a loss of the lower frequencies.


For a ported floor standing speaker, tuned to low to mid 30Hz range, the port contribution deals mainly with omnidirectional frequencies, and therefore porting out the rear will not have nearly as much decreased volume of the low end, if any, as that of the Volt 6s. If the driver is playing mostly directional frequencies, then front ported makes sense to maximize the port contribution to the audience.
This makes sense to me! Thanks for the laymen explanation.

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Bedroom Audio: Two Shallow Under Bed PA310-8 12's energized by an SPA250DSP Plate Amp. Two BST-1s. 75 Watt 7.1 Onkyo AVR with Five Martin Logan MLT-2 LCR & Surrounds.
Living Room Audio: One Behringer NX6000D flexing four PA460-8's in a contemporary VBSS credenza build, 100 Watt 5.1 Sony AVR zapping Three horizontal Elusive 1099s LCRs and Two Martin Logan MLT-2 Surrounds. Two BST-1 Bass Shakers charged by the MLT-2 Sub Amp.
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post #24 of 27 Old Yesterday, 03:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemonslush View Post
Love the 1099 in walls. did you make a backer box for inside the wall?
Sorry I didn't see this earlier.

Thanks for the compliment.

They are fully built and laminated 1099s. Even though everything sounds great together, I might convert the two on the sides (L&R) to a normal vertical baffle and install them in wall beside the TV if I decide to move the PA-460s up front for front firing midbass.

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Bedroom Audio: Two Shallow Under Bed PA310-8 12's energized by an SPA250DSP Plate Amp. Two BST-1s. 75 Watt 7.1 Onkyo AVR with Five Martin Logan MLT-2 LCR & Surrounds.
Living Room Audio: One Behringer NX6000D flexing four PA460-8's in a contemporary VBSS credenza build, 100 Watt 5.1 Sony AVR zapping Three horizontal Elusive 1099s LCRs and Two Martin Logan MLT-2 Surrounds. Two BST-1 Bass Shakers charged by the MLT-2 Sub Amp.
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post #25 of 27 Old Yesterday, 02:23 PM
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came together looking as a very very strong statement of DIY ingenuity
and of course, HT awareness of what there is to work with

FTR, and to ease my mind . .
that is poplar/ , is it not?

great looking work with the grain continuity / contrasts
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DIY FAN Denon X4400 , ATI A 2000 for 7.4.6 SCATMOS Sammy 82" 4K/HDR
L/R: Fusion 15 V2 , C: 88 Special , SL/SR: 88 Special(V2) , RL/RR: F-3, TF/TR: Volt 6's TM: SLX, FH: F4Q4
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post #26 of 27 Old Yesterday, 05:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Appreciate it, yes it is poplar. I "imagined" I wouldn't dent it.. but it looks like I'll be filling in like 4 spots. I do like the grain too like on your door, its what made me pull the trigger. But one layer in it looks a bit green, I am considering dying it a tinge with red dye.

Anyone else have an easy solution without killing the look of it. I REALLY like the lightness of it.

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Bedroom Audio: Two Shallow Under Bed PA310-8 12's energized by an SPA250DSP Plate Amp. Two BST-1s. 75 Watt 7.1 Onkyo AVR with Five Martin Logan MLT-2 LCR & Surrounds.
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post #27 of 27 Old Today, 10:55 AM
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maybe . . .

on another set I made,
I used a "pickled oak wash', a light whitish semi transparent stain,
i practiced on scrap and edcided that a very ligt coat was good enough.
the finer porosity of the poplar grain will give it a nice effect -YMMV.

and a few coats of hand wiped satin poly.

DIY FAN Denon X4400 , ATI A 2000 for 7.4.6 SCATMOS Sammy 82" 4K/HDR
L/R: Fusion 15 V2 , C: 88 Special , SL/SR: 88 Special(V2) , RL/RR: F-3, TF/TR: Volt 6's TM: SLX, FH: F4Q4
SUBMAXIMUS V2, ,Submaximus V3,LOWARHORNCustom Dual Driver VBSS,2 x 6000DSP
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