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post #1 of 31 Old 07-13-2019, 05:20 PM - Thread Starter
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DIY Ottoman Subwoofer

New to the thread, my first post.

I've been doing some research on DIY vs buying a sub. I am not comfortable with the cosmetic builds, whenever i paint it never dries correctly, but I can make it strong and functional. So I have decided to either buy a store bought nice looking sub like an SVS PB3000 or do it myself by modifying my ottoman so my wife will never know .

Given my limitations:
  • ~3.1cuft volume
  • internal space of box 26"x26"x8" (I think I can make ~11" mounting depth work so don't be too concerned about sub dimensions)
  • max $1500 on amp + sub


Would I be able to achieve a better sound than say a SVS PB3000 that says it can reproduce 16hz -3dB? I would like to think if i spent the same as the cost of the SVS $1,000 I should get the same or better sound. Is this possible with those dimension? If so what sub would you go with and sealed or ported?
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post #2 of 31 Old 07-16-2019, 08:43 PM - Thread Starter
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I think I have narrowed it down to the Dayton HO18, Dayton HF15, or the UM18-22. I just don't know if the 3.1 ft^3 volume for my sealed/ported box is enough for these subs. Should I just scrap the ottoman idea and just buy an SVS or a monolith?
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post #3 of 31 Old 07-16-2019, 10:30 PM
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@Monstrosity

Well-
it depends

Welcome to AVS

YOU CAN build yer own dang "ottoman' sub

Table Tuba, a 30x30x16 inch horn loaded sub that will do double duty as a piece of fine furniture

it's worth a look: https://billfitzmaurice.info/TT.html

extremely cost effective, easy build, lightweight, powerful clean bass,
fail-proof plans

get her involved in building it with you
and
making it pretty, all dressed up for Sunday company

i'm sure you could find plenty of good ideas / ways for a living room "look"
on you tube , at the BFM site, and plenty of good creative, supportive minds here at AVS.

just ask . . .

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post #4 of 31 Old 07-17-2019, 07:50 AM
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Not trying to be ignorant but if you use it as an ottoman how will you be able to move it or really what about wiring? If you went wireless ( I think PE has something? ) great but otherwise what about the speaker wire??

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post #5 of 31 Old 07-17-2019, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cichlid109 View Post
Not trying to be ignorant but if you use it as an ottoman how will you be able to move it or really what about wiring? If you went wireless ( I think PE has something? ) great but otherwise what about the speaker wire??
"Wireless" means no speaker wire (Bluetooth), but then you'll need a power cord.

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post #6 of 31 Old 07-17-2019, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monstrosity View Post
I think I have narrowed it down to the Dayton HO18, Dayton HF15, or the UM18-22. I just don't know if the 3.1 ft^3 volume for my sealed/ported box is enough for these subs. Should I just scrap the ottoman idea and just buy an SVS or a monolith?



Build a 22" x 22" box, down-firing with 5" legs, and about 5 ft. tall. Have the SO whitewash it, and glue on some faux doors with hinges and handles. Call it "the Curio Cabinet".



Click image for larger version

Name:	Romulus+15%2522+W+x+63%2522+H+Linen+Tower.jpg
Views:	70
Size:	11.0 KB
ID:	2592060
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Last edited by Augerhandle; 07-17-2019 at 08:09 PM.
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post #7 of 31 Old 07-17-2019, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Augerhandle View Post
"Wireless" means no speaker wire (Bluetooth), but then you'll need a power cord.
As in, not "wireless".
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post #8 of 31 Old 07-18-2019, 05:36 AM
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Okay let me rephrase, if the sub is going to be used as an ottoman ( according to OP ) which is fine my question how is it going to be wired?? Only reason asking most well in my case the ottoman is in front of my sofa so if making it into a sub / ottoman whether you use plate amp or other how do you wire it without having pwr cord spkr wire etc being seen? Not a big deal if used as an end table or something that sit against the wall. Really just curious.

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post #9 of 31 Old 07-18-2019, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cichlid109 View Post
Okay let me rephrase, if the sub is going to be used as an ottoman ( according to OP ) which is fine my question how is it going to be wired?? Only reason asking most well in my case the ottoman is in front of my sofa so if making it into a sub / ottoman whether you use plate amp or other how do you wire it without having pwr cord spkr wire etc being seen? Not a big deal if used as an end table or something that sit against the wall. Really just curious.
Completely depends on the room. In my case, my sofa is about 18" in front of the back wall my Ottoman is right in front of the couch. I currently have speaker wires run down the back wall and under my couch for bass shakers. Would be super easy to put a slit in the carpet under the ottoman and run the speaker wire under the carpet and have it pop up under the ottoman. Ottomans don't typically need to be super mobile, mine rarely moves more than a few inches.

In fact I'm planning on doing something similar with my ottoman but with charging cables instead.
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post #10 of 31 Old 07-18-2019, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Augerhandle View Post
Build a 22" x 22" box, down-firing with 5" legs, and about 5 ft. tall. Have the SO whitewash it, and glue on some faux doors with hinges and handles. Call it "the Curio Cabinet".



Attachment 2592060
Thanks for everyones reply. I like this idea, I will give it some more thought and keep you guys updated and maybe a few pictures once i start getting it all put together.
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post #11 of 31 Old 07-18-2019, 04:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jevchance View Post
Completely depends on the room. In my case, my sofa is about 18" in front of the back wall my Ottoman is right in front of the couch. I currently have speaker wires run down the back wall and under my couch for bass shakers. Would be super easy to put a slit in the carpet under the ottoman and run the speaker wire under the carpet and have it pop up under the ottoman. Ottomans don't typically need to be super mobile, mine rarely moves more than a few inches.

In fact I'm planning on doing something similar with my ottoman but with charging cables instead.
Yea, my ottoman doesn't really move so running a wire from it isn't a problem. I was thinking of getting a proamp like the NX3000D since I won't really have space for a plate amp.
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post #12 of 31 Old 07-19-2019, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Monstrosity View Post
Yea, my ottoman doesn't really move so running a wire from it isn't a problem. I was thinking of getting a proamp like the NX3000D since I won't really have space for a plate amp.
That'd be my advice, put your amp in the rack and just run speaker wire to the ottoman under carpet (avoid the traffic areas).

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post #13 of 31 Old 07-23-2019, 12:46 PM
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Following along. I have been considering doing a end table on entertainment stand sub build as well.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
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post #14 of 31 Old 07-27-2019, 08:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Update... bought the Behringer NX3000D

So I decided to bail on the ottoman idea I was struggling with it.

However, I went ahead and bought a NX3000D, I already had 2 10" subs laying around and I wired them up. I was unable to get Channel B to output more than 10% SPL of what I was getting out of Channel A. I swapped every wire to make sure it wasn't one of my 2 sub outs from my STR-1070 or one of the wires. Both subs work fine by themselves but when I try to run the NX3000D in Dual with same settings B outputs very little SPL.

Secondly, I have a $10 Nobsound 100W TPA3116D2 Amp with a 60W power supply with the gains maxed out on the NX3000D and the Nobsound the Nobsound is a little louder than the NX3000D. Maybe the NX3000D is a cleaner sound but does this sound right, should a 60w $10 amp beat out on SPL?

I would like to figure this out before I buy a UM18 with a Marty if that's what I decide, please, please, any help would be awesome.
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post #15 of 31 Old 08-11-2019, 06:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Monstrosity View Post
So I decided to bail on the ottoman idea I was struggling with it.

However, I went ahead and bought a NX3000D, I already had 2 10" subs laying around and I wired them up. I was unable to get Channel B to output more than 10% SPL of what I was getting out of Channel A. I swapped every wire to make sure it wasn't one of my 2 sub outs from my STR-1070 or one of the wires. Both subs work fine by themselves but when I try to run the NX3000D in Dual with same settings B outputs very little SPL.

Secondly, I have a $10 Nobsound 100W TPA3116D2 Amp with a 60W power supply with the gains maxed out on the NX3000D and the Nobsound the Nobsound is a little louder than the NX3000D. Maybe the NX3000D is a cleaner sound but does this sound right, should a 60w $10 amp beat out on SPL?

I would like to figure this out before I buy a UM18 with a Marty if that's what I decide, please, please, any help would be awesome.
Update,

Even though it may seem like I am all over the place I am learning a lot. As stated above I have bailed on the ottoman and I got the NX3000D working. However, I was still trying to figure out how to make these 10" subs I have work.

I think the more I read on this forum the more I am thinking to go with an 18" ported sub and I still want to incorporate the 210's somehow. I would like to use both subs for HT and then when listening to music just use the 210's. I was thinking of building an isobaric box for the 210's just to keep it smaller and compact.

Does it make since to use the 210's to target the 40-100hz range and have the 18" crossover and do 50 and below? Am I over thinking it and should I just discard the 210's and just go with the one 18"? Is it a good idea to separate frequencies for 2 subs or just use filters and gains to flatten the freq curve as much as possible?
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post #16 of 31 Old 08-11-2019, 08:16 PM
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For your Behringer, I'm pretty sure you should be using BIAMP 1 mode, if you have one input and 2 outputs. Sort that out first. Have you connected it to a computer yet? Much easier to see what's going on. ( just use a printer cable )

Get your settings right, and you'll be letting the smoke out of those 10"s in no time.

This is all IMO. YMMV.
Joseph

mods, can we have a 'dislike' button ?
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post #17 of 31 Old 08-12-2019, 08:31 PM - Thread Starter
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For your Behringer, I'm pretty sure you should be using BIAMP 1 mode, if you have one input and 2 outputs. Sort that out first. Have you connected it to a computer yet? Much easier to see what's going on. ( just use a printer cable )

Get your settings right, and you'll be letting the smoke out of those 10"s in no time.

This is all IMO. YMMV.
Joseph
Thanks for the advice, I am very impressed with the NX300D. During all my troubleshooting I never touched the gain on the Parametric EQ. I kept adjust the the peak limiter and filter and I wasn't getting anything. When I changed the EQ gain that's when my frown turned upside down.

My problem with the 10's are 2 fold.
1.) I don't really have a good idea on how to setup up the filters and gains very well so I have been reading up on AustinJerry's +100 page 'how to setup REW for dummies' in hopes that will help.
2.) I bought a bandpass box designed for some cheap really cheap subs 15 years ago but I have always liked the box so after upgrading the subs i stayed with the box. This was originally intended for car audio but since I have moved into HT I don't think I want them to be ported, let alone a band pass box, primarily because of the tuning difficulties.

Don't get me wrong, these things are rattling every light fixture and vent in the house but I think if I went with a different box I could get it to sound clearer.
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post #18 of 31 Old 08-13-2019, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monstrosity View Post
Thanks for the advice, I am very impressed with the NX300D. During all my troubleshooting I never touched the gain on the Parametric EQ. I kept adjust the the peak limiter and filter and I wasn't getting anything. When I changed the EQ gain that's when my frown turned upside down.

My problem with the 10's are 2 fold.
1.) I don't really have a good idea on how to setup up the filters and gains very well so I have been reading up on AustinJerry's +100 page 'how to setup REW for dummies' in hopes that will help.
2.) I bought a bandpass box designed for some cheap really cheap subs 15 years ago but I have always liked the box so after upgrading the subs i stayed with the box. This was originally intended for car audio but since I have moved into HT I don't think I want them to be ported, let alone a band pass box, primarily because of the tuning difficulties.

Don't get me wrong, these things are rattling every light fixture and vent in the house but I think if I went with a different box I could get it to sound clearer.
Sounds like you should build yourself 2 of lilmikes Picowreckers. The sound is clear and flat. You will need to make sure your drivers work in the design, but I never thought 2 10's could do what these do.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...cowrecker.html

Here is my build, I tried to get the WAF higher as they are in the living room.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...ker-build.html
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post #19 of 31 Old 08-13-2019, 07:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Sounds like you should build yourself 2 of lilmikes Picowreckers. The sound is clear and flat. You will need to make sure your drivers work in the design, but I never thought 2 10's could do what these do.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...cowrecker.html

Here is my build, I tried to get the WAF higher as they are in the living room.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...ker-build.html
Those look impressive! I am afraid that looks way too difficult for me to build. How critical are those angles assuming air gaps are all filled in?
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post #20 of 31 Old 08-13-2019, 07:54 PM
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"How critical are those angles assuming air gaps are all filled in?"

the slight angles of intersection for the interior panels are
from my own experience in wondering about and measuring "to get it right"
were around 5 degrees- nominally slight , not much more and actually a hassle to get exactly on a table saw

in doing a dry fit of panels , to be sure panels ends hit "hit the mark" with a smidge overly long
and then

I found that some finessed application of a belt sander to make a slightly kinda close enough bevel was all that was needed,
as long as in subsequent the dry fitting, the panels end did hit the mark for fit wrt proper length.

the use of PL3 as the adhesive in the joint WILL create the airtight joint .

and by building the box from the inside out, you'll have room to apply a little more if need be, more easily as the build progresses

get a box of disposable gloves
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post #21 of 31 Old 08-14-2019, 01:03 PM
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Asarose has more horn building experience then I do... These were my first DIY audio thing and the first project that needed to look good.

From what I have gathered from other posts. There is 1 absolute critical dimension the nail, the throat. If this is right, there is a little be more leeway with everything else.

Only tools I used were:
Circular saw
Kreg Rip guide
Tape measure
Quick square
Level (mostly for a straight edge)
PL3
Drill and Impact driver
Kreg pocket hole jig
brad nailer for the trim


I cut all my pieces, then took my time with a tape measure and straight edge and layed out the horn on one of the sides. The plans call out dimensions for both ends of all of the sections so no need to measure the actual angle. Take your time, trace out the boards with a dry fit. Then when you glue and nail/screw everything it's super easy to get everything in the correct spot. All of the corners for the horn were close enough to 90 degrees that I didn't bother sanding or cutting the angle. Just relied on the layout to angle correctly and used PL3 to seal the interface. The 2 angles that need to be cut are the support for the baffle, and the pretty face of the baffle (because it's visible). It's not in the plans but cut the baffle long so you can blend it in with sanding or a router after its assembled.

What drivers do you have?

It is hard to describe how these sound, but the cannon fire in Fury literally smacks you in the face/chest like your standing next to the tank. I know I will probably want to build myself a submaximus V3 eventually but for less than half the cost and way less then half the size, the picos do amazingly well.
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post #22 of 31 Old 08-14-2019, 02:31 PM
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sometimes - -

cutting ALL pieces first- can feel pretty good
finally- progress

however. . .as I've reported else where and experienced . .

like with Max V3, my ply was not .75 but .709
is .04" that critical? it depends

're-calculating"

minor yes,
annoying as all get out- very much so

i recommend a measured deliberate pace for building,
lots of dry fit , stabilization / non-slippage blocking,
Hit the Mark

in a current thread about another V3 build I've posted some construction pics that might inspire using more visualization of the process

once!- right!- the first time.

to the list of tools- a good combo square and maybe an extra 16" blade

HF sells a kit with an up to 24" blade but i also have a few metal yard stick around just to be able to double check

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post #23 of 31 Old 08-14-2019, 07:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2_liter_ejturbo View Post
edited quote for length
[...]
Kreg Rip guide
[...]
What drivers do you have?
[...]
I never knew 'rip guides' existed! Thanks! I don't have a table saw so that will help a bunch. I was debating on needing to buy one and then trying to figure out where to put it.

Driver:
- I have two Thunder 8000 2003 10" single voice coil (I still can't believe I bought them ~15 years ago)
- MTX T8104A <--PDF Link to spec
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post #24 of 31 Old 08-14-2019, 07:39 PM - Thread Starter
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sometimes - -

cutting ALL pieces first- can feel pretty good
finally- progress

however. . .as I've reported else where and experienced . .

like with Max V3, my ply was not .75 but .709
is .04" that critical? it depends

're-calculating"

minor yes,
annoying as all get out- very much so

i recommend a measured deliberate pace for building,
lots of dry fit , stabilization / non-slippage blocking,
Hit the Mark

in a current thread about another V3 build I've posted some construction pics that might inspire using more visualization of the process

once!- right!- the first time.

to the list of tools- a good combo square and maybe an extra 16" blade

HF sells a kit with an up to 24" blade but i also have a few metal yard stick around just to be able to double check
Good suggestion on the combo square, I am missing a lot of tools for this job, lol. Thanks,

I am a measure 8-1/4" twice and then I will cut 7-3/4". It drives me crazy, dang dyslexia or something, my mind sees a 1/4" and then subtracts or adds a 1/4" incorrectly from the whole number.
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post #25 of 31 Old 08-15-2019, 11:03 AM
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I am by no means a Hornresp expert, but I did add the driver specs to the picowrecker hornresp model.

It looks very similar to the Alpine type s model. It would need a high pass filter around 23-24hz to keep excursion in check.
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post #26 of 31 Old 08-26-2019, 08:29 PM - Thread Starter
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At this point I wonder if I should just rename this thread or start a new one because this really has very little if anything to do with an ottoman build anymore, lol.

I went ahead and decide to just get 2 18 HST ported subs that are insanely impressive and had a few follow questions.

1.) All seriousness, should I be concerned about the structural integrity of the house because I am hearing a lot of creaking noises in my house?

2.) Also, the subs are awesome but one of the two subs box appears to also be making some noises when >90dB and below 30hz. I believe it has to do with the mdf gaping between some of the supports moving around from the vibration. When I tap on enclosure gently with a rubber mallet I can reproduce the squeaking sound around a few of the brace points.
- I was wondering if I should just shove some glue along all the braces
- add a few screws to from the outside drilling into the braces to pull them tight
- or add a few shims if possible to add some stability and more contact with the mdf.

----EDIT--- I was able to figure out how to upload the image with drawings of where the gaps I am talking about.

Any ideas?
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post #27 of 31 Old 08-26-2019, 08:46 PM
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shove some glue . . .

a moderately healthy bead of PL3 on any suspect wood to wood juncture

disposable gloves for spots you can't get the gun into

for $5, would stay fixed

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post #28 of 31 Old 08-27-2019, 05:28 AM
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+1 on the urethane glue. It will fix a multitude of mistakes...
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post #29 of 31 Old 08-27-2019, 07:18 AM
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You can also just add some MDF blocks with wood glue. Basically just surround the gaps with 1" to 2" thick blocks and once dry, it should take care of the problem. See my picture for a general idea.
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post #30 of 31 Old 08-28-2019, 09:51 AM
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Oh wow, thanks for posting the latest pics showing the gaps in the braces. Sorry about that.

I used to make fancy diamond braces for my sub boxes, but based on your pics, I think my next box will get Bill Fitzmaurice style wooden dowels. That should work well and lessen the chance of having any gaps........the main place you need support in a speaker cab is the middle / center of the panels, that's where they move the most. And it would also lighten the cabs and push the resonant frequency up. That guy was right all along.
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