Titan 630’s, clone power ;) - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 129 Old 07-18-2019, 07:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Titan 630’s, clone power ;)

I decided to pull the trigger on an Xbs 10,000q amp for my mains. Reason: diysg says the stock titan can take 2000 Watts, and I have the added woofer, so it should take more, yeah? I get my mains are only a 6 ohm load stock, right? So less with the added woofer? This thread will contain before and after measuring of the setup, and questions along the way. I need this added power so I can crossover to the mains at 40-60 hz, and boost the midbass they can hurl out. 6 of the 15” woofers my mains have should be awoken by the 1350 watts rms from the amp. It’s a 4 channel amp so I plan on using the open channel for my buttkicker setup. That gives me an inuke to sell. A plus plus. @mtg90 how much power can the dual woofer titan take? I plan on keeping the stock (now modified) crossover in place. Good or bad idea? Should I use the power and extra channels to bi-amp the mains? I’m open to suggestion, but I can’t wait to see what these woofers can do.
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post #2 of 129 Old 07-18-2019, 08:00 PM
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post #3 of 129 Old 07-19-2019, 12:18 AM
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I don’t know what’s going on but read lots of power and large woofers.

What good can’t come from this??
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Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #4 of 129 Old 07-19-2019, 12:59 AM
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Were you using an iNuke for your mains? was it the 4 channel inuke 6000?
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post #5 of 129 Old 07-19-2019, 03:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eng-399 View Post
Love this thread clone to the Titan 630’s


I knew you would be on board. Thanks Mike
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post #6 of 129 Old 07-19-2019, 03:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Trimlock View Post
Were you using an iNuke for your mains? was it the 4 channel inuke 6000?


No, the mains are on an emotiva xpa 7. So this will be a lot more power.
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post #7 of 129 Old 07-19-2019, 03:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Titan 630’s, clone power

I think I also forgot to add, this amp will be on its own dedicated 20A circuit. It’s already available in my amp room. I’m also planning on adding a MiniDSP 10X10 to take care of the mains and subs. I’m just waiting until I make sure the 10x10 hd works with the WiFi adapter because that is so sweet to not have to hook up a wire to make changes. I hope I don’t blow up my speakers. I like them a lot.
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post #8 of 129 Old 07-19-2019, 06:23 AM
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No way it arrives in time. NO WAY. Unless you order it today.

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post #9 of 129 Old 07-19-2019, 09:32 AM
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No way it arrives in time. NO WAY. Unless you order it today.
lol There actually super fast with delivery usually less than a week we had ours in 5 days last time and when needing a replacement board I believe they had it air shipped and delivered in 3 days.

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post #10 of 129 Old 07-19-2019, 10:15 AM
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The woofers themselves are good for 600w continuous, 1200w program each. The limiting point in the design is the main low frequency inductor on the crossover, I don't recommend long term power of over 1000w unless you have the crossover placed in a way so that you can monitor the temperature of that inductor. Short bursts during normal movie/music content should be fine assuming you are not bouncing off the limiter the whole time.
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post #11 of 129 Old 07-19-2019, 12:41 PM
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Wouldn’t be too hard to up the inductor gauge if you can be sure the resistance doesn’t muck things up.

Is that a possibility?

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post #12 of 129 Old 07-19-2019, 01:10 PM
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Is that the same amp I now have? Be anxious to hear how that plays with your Titans. I'll also be anxious to hear your thoughts of the MiniDSP 10x10. Been thinking that would sure be a good way for me to really dial in my system.

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post #13 of 129 Old 07-19-2019, 02:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by luv2fly3 View Post
Is that the same amp I now have? Be anxious to hear how that plays with your Titans. I'll also be anxious to hear your thoughts of the MiniDSP 10x10. Been thinking that would sure be a good way for me to really dial in my system.

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Not exactly the same. But yes. Pretty close.
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post #14 of 129 Old 07-19-2019, 02:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post
The woofers themselves are good for 600w continuous, 1200w program each. The limiting point in the design is the main low frequency inductor on the crossover, I don't recommend long term power of over 1000w unless you have the crossover placed in a way so that you can monitor the temperature of that inductor. Short bursts during normal movie/music content should be fine assuming you are not bouncing off the limiter the whole time.


Thanks Matt. So I plan on using the crossover as designed with the tweaks you prescribed before. Is that a good idea?
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post #15 of 129 Old 07-19-2019, 05:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Titan 630’s, clone power

I ordered the MiniDSP 10x10. Man I hope I can keep all the hum issues at bay when I hook up all this stuff. As of right now, I have zero hums. But I’m always nervous changing things will cause hums. Well I’m all in now. I’ll post my graphs that kinda put me down this path soon. It shows how much bass I loose when I change my mains from small, crossover at 80, to large. This way with the amp and dsp I can boost the bass from 40 to 100ish in the mains and get things where I want them. It will take experimentation and measuring to get things right. And a few conversations with @eng-399 and @mtg90 thanks in advance guys you are both very helpful!
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post #16 of 129 Old 07-20-2019, 07:35 AM
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I'd recommend bypassing the crossover for the woofers entirely, which of course will require that the upper section still be powered with the Emotiva.

Generally the first thing to blow is the tweeter, especially so if you clip an amplifier.
However if you are boosting the woofers and playing bass-heavy content, then it is "possible" to blow those first I suppose.

The difference in power will be night and day, the amount of extra mid-bass you'll be able to kick out will be a tremendous difference.
If the woofers are truly rated for that much power then it "should be" okay...
If at any point in time the woofers drops towards 4-ohms, the wattage will only increase.

I ran quad 4-ohm LMS-18's on my Sanway 10k for 7 years, and all of that gear is just-fine to this day...

The 10k is flat from 7hz to 24khz I believe.

90% of my system is XBS powered now, and I have no hums. If you get hums it isn't the amps fault.

Worst-case: you need to upgrade to quad Emotiva monoblocks per speaker instead.

That said, higher-powered amps do tend to produce a bit more hiss, which is noticable on zillion-db/w/m tweeters, but IMO it's well worth putting up with given the increased power available on-tap...

Some people have said they can't stand the amount of hiss that the miniDSP's produce on mains. That was one of several reasons why I chose Motu 24's instead for that task.
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post #17 of 129 Old 07-20-2019, 07:41 AM
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Once XBS got my amps on a plane, FedEx got it here in like 2-3days. It didn't take long.
and that wasn't even next-day air shipping (if you really desire impatience.)
The lead time for DHL does seem to be faster in China though, which is what some of the other AVS'ers used...
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post #18 of 129 Old 07-20-2019, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jk7.2 View Post
I ordered the MiniDSP 10x10. Man I hope I can keep all the hum issues at bay when I hook up all this stuff. As of right now, I have zero hums. But I’m always nervous changing things will cause hums. Well I’m all in now. I’ll post my graphs that kinda put me down this path soon. It shows how much bass I loose when I change my mains from small, crossover at 80, to large. This way with the amp and dsp I can boost the bass from 40 to 100ish in the mains and get things where I want them. It will take experimentation and measuring to get things right. And a few conversations with @eng-399 and @mtg90 thanks in advance guys you are both very helpful!
Your idea is great! For the very same reason, I'll be going down this very same road soon. Audyssey set my 2180s to small and you do lose a lot while the speakers are set to small. I have my MF/HF running off AVR power and my PA460s running through a minidsp and then into a FP10k. When I set them to large, it's night and day. My center channel is not complete, so I only tinkered with the LR listening to two channel music. I suspect things will be more intense while watching a movie Really looking forward to your impressions of your final results.
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Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
I'd recommend bypassing the crossover for the woofers entirely, which of course will require that the upper section still be powered with the Emotiva.

Generally the first thing to blow is the tweeter, especially so if you clip an amplifier.
However if you are boosting the woofers and playing bass-heavy content, then it is "possible" to blow those first I suppose.

The difference in power will be night and day, the amount of extra mid-bass you'll be able to kick out will be a tremendous difference.
If the woofers are truly rated for that much power then it "should be" okay...
If at any point in time the woofers drops towards 4-ohms, the wattage will only increase.

I ran quad 4-ohm LMS-18's on my Sanway 10k for 7 years, and all of that gear is just-fine to this day...

The 10k is flat from 7hz to 24khz I believe.

90% of my system is XBS powered now, and I have no hums. If you get hums it isn't the amps fault.

Worst-case: you need to upgrade to quad Emotiva monoblocks per speaker instead.

That said, higher-powered amps do tend to produce a bit more hiss, which is noticable on zillion-db/w/m tweeters, but IMO it's well worth putting up with given the increased power available on-tap...

Some people have said they can't stand the amount of hiss that the miniDSP's produce on mains. That was one of several reasons why I chose Motu 24's instead for that task.
After blowing 2 tweeters, I found myself here on the DIY section learning about amps. That was my introduction to DIY.
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post #20 of 129 Old 07-20-2019, 03:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Titan 630’s, clone power

Ok guys. Sounds like I’ll need to just bypass the crossover and run the woofers right off the amp! That way I’ll keep the mid/high on the emotiva, and not risk blowing anything. I’ll keep the woofers under control with a high pass and low pass in the dsp.
Question:
How high up should I run the woofers?
Oh, and should I worry that the timing could be off between the lows and the mid/highs?

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post #21 of 129 Old 07-20-2019, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jk7.2 View Post
Ok guys. Sounds like I’ll need to just bypass the crossover and run the woofers right off the amp! That way I’ll keep the mid/high on the emotiva, and not risk blowing anything. I’ll keep the woofers under control with a high pass and low pass in the dsp.
Question:
How high up should I run the woofers?
Oh, and should I worry that the timing could be off between the lows and the mid/highs?
Great idea running the woofers active...That's how I have mine. I'd run the woofers at the same crossover point as the original crossover. Use REW to measure and align until the response looks clean
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jk7.2 View Post
Ok guys. Sounds like I’ll need to just bypass the crossover and run the woofers right off the amp! That way I’ll keep the mid/high on the emotiva, and not risk blowing anything. I’ll keep the woofers under control with a high pass and low pass in the dsp.
Question:
How high up should I run the woofers?
Oh, and should I worry that the timing could be off between the lows and the mid/highs?

Your going to have to level match the waveguide to the dual 15’s. Let me see how mine are set.
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I’m just waiting until I make sure the 10x10 hd works with the WiFi adapter because that is so sweet to not have to hook up a wire to make changes. I hope I don’t blow up my speakers. I like them a lot.

The WI-DG will work with the 10x10. I use on mine, and it makes adjustments a breeze from your comfy seat, so go for it

Compability list a bit down the page:

https://www.minidsp.com/products/accessories/wi-dg
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post #25 of 129 Old 07-20-2019, 04:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Titan 630’s, clone power

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnson636 View Post
Great idea running the woofers active...That's how I have mine. I'd run the woofers at the same crossover point as the original crossover. Use REW to measure and align until the response looks clean


Thanks! I’ll dig up the original titan crossover points. For some reason I think the 15 runs up to 500hz. (It’s 350hz)
And the woofers active idea is credited to mike, yourself, and BTH. And mtg 90, of course. I’m just trying to hang on! I don’t know what all you guys know. Thanks again for all the help!

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Your going to have to level match the waveguide to the dual 15’s. Let me see how mine are set.


Thanks Mike for posting all those screen shots! You know I need the help this close to the gtg!
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post #27 of 129 Old 07-20-2019, 04:56 PM - Thread Starter
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The WI-DG will work with the 10x10. I use on mine, and it makes adjustments a breeze from your comfy seat, so go for it



Compability list a bit down the page:



https://www.minidsp.com/products/accessories/wi-dg


Thanks for that! I did assume the 10x10 will work wirelessly, they list the Wi-dg for sale on the 10x10 page. I’m running all my bass through the WiFi connected 2x4 and it’s so awesome not having to connect a wire.
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post #28 of 129 Old 07-20-2019, 05:10 PM
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Devil's advocate: How loud would 1000w get one your Titans? If it's far beyond what your ears could ever stand or way above reference, it might not be worth going active on the woofers.
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post #29 of 129 Old 07-20-2019, 05:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Devil's advocate: How loud would 1000w get one your Titans? If it's far beyond what your ears could ever stand or way above reference, it might not be worth going active on the woofers.


Pete that was my original thought. Just power them with enough headroom, and boost the 40 or 60 up to 150 or whatever I end up liking. But honestly I don’t even know the sensitivity of these with the added woofer. I’m the complete opposite of a speaker designer. Lol
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post #30 of 129 Old 07-20-2019, 05:18 PM
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Once you get these dialed in and set to large, don't be surprised if it sounds like you just upgraded your speakers. I suspect it will be some ear bleeding awesomeness at the gtg
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