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-   -   My quest for a full DIY 7.1 surround setup (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/3079702-my-quest-full-diy-7-1-surround-setup.html)

ssdesigner 07-20-2019 08:34 AM

My quest for a full DIY 7.1 surround setup
 
Ok, I should start by saying that I'm not posting this looking for someone to do my homework for me. I've been reading the DIY threads for several weeks now and I'm STILL scratching my head a bit.

What I do know:

I would like to end up with (3) 1099's for the front stage, a pair of BIG subwoofers and (4) volt 6's (2 angled and 2 square) for side and rear surrounds. I'll be putting a wood veneer on them because they will all be visible. I am skilled enough to "assemble" my speakers, but that doesn't include crossover assembly. I'm not going to pretend that I can do it so I'm not interested. So, fully assembled crossovers for me.

What I need help figuring out:

Do I need to just sit back and wait for certain parts to become available, or can I email someone at Parts Express or DIY and order the full kits even though they are "out of stock"? Is there a place to see the ENTIRE "parts needed" list for these speakers? I feel like each time I go searching I find 3-4 options that just end up confusing me more than I was before I started.

Thanks in advance for reading, and if you can shed some light on the details I would be extremely grateful.

smcmillan2 07-20-2019 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssdesigner (Post 58318538)
What I need help figuring out:

Do I need to just sit back and wait for certain parts to become available, or can I email someone at Parts Express or DIY and order the full kits even though they are "out of stock"?

You could try messaging Erich via the "Contact Us" form on the DIYSG site, but I'm pretty sure the 1099s are oos at this point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssdesigner
Is there a place to see the ENTIRE "parts needed" list for these speakers? I feel like each time I go searching I find 3-4 options that just end up confusing me more than I was before I started.

As there are so many ways to complete a speaker it would be tough to assemble an all-encompassing list. What are you confused on? The DIYSG kits give you just about everything you'll need, and the "Helpful Notes" sections on each speaker's site has information on additional things you would need.

ssdesigner 07-20-2019 10:13 AM

Quote:

As there are so many ways to complete a speaker it would be tough to assemble an all-encompassing list. What are you confused on? The DIYSG kits give you just about everything you'll need, and the "Helpful Notes" sections on each speaker's site has information on additional things you would need.
The DIYSG kits list the crossover board and crossover parts separately, so I assume that this means I would need to assemble it. I'm looking for a way to order a "kit" with the crossovers assembled.

I can message Erich but I know that he's plenty busy and I feel like a n00b asking some of these ?'s :confused:

smcmillan2 07-20-2019 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssdesigner (Post 58318882)
The DIYSG kits list the crossover board and crossover parts separately, so I assume that this means I would need to assemble it. I'm looking for a way to order a "kit" with the crossovers assembled.

I can message Erich but I know that he's plenty busy and I feel like a n00b asking some of these ?'s :confused:

The 1099 crossovers are available pre-assembled as well: https://www.diysoundgroup.com/home-t...crossover.html

For those that are not, I believe Matt (mtg90) still offers that service, you just have to send him the parts.

What specific questions do you have? Many here have built DIYSG speakers and can offer advice.

lawdogx 07-20-2019 10:33 AM

The kit comes with loose crossover parts, unless you order the assembled crossovers, then it comes all assembled, tested, and pretty. When they’re back in stock just order the 1099’s (there will be a box to check if you want your center to be horizontal), order three 1099 flat packs, and order 3 assembled crossovers. As for “parts needed”, check out a few 1099 build threads here. Everyone uses clamps (get a bunch of harbor freight 2’ clamps and a few 3’), everyone uses glue (tight bond is very popular), and everyone uses speaker wire (I used 14 ga, but I’ve seen everything from 12 to 18 used). Beyond that it’s personal preference for insulation, terminal posts/cup, and crimp terminals. I think I listed everything used in my build thread, and many others here did as well. Once you get started it’s pretty straight forward. If you get stuck just ask, lots of help in the DIY forum.

As for subs, the most popular seem to be the Marty and the vbss paired with Behringer amps. There’s a dedicated thread for each with listed parts, measurements, etc.

If you have specific questions ask away

ssdesigner 07-20-2019 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawdogx (Post 58318940)
The kit comes with loose crossover parts, unless you order the assembled crossovers, then it comes all assembled, tested, and pretty. When they’re back in stock just order the 1099’s (there will be a box to check if you want your center to be horizontal), order three 1099 flat packs, and order 3 assembled crossovers. As for “parts needed”, check out a few 1099 build threads here. Everyone uses clamps (get a bunch of harbor freight 2’ clamps and a few 3’), everyone uses glue (tight bond is very popular), and everyone uses speaker wire (I used 14 ga, but I’ve seen everything from 12 to 18 used). Beyond that it’s personal preference for insulation, terminal posts/cup, and crimp terminals. I think I listed everything used in my build thread, and many others here did as well. Once you get started it’s pretty straight forward. If you get stuck just ask, lots of help in the DIY forum.

As for subs, the most popular seem to be the Marty and the vbss paired with Behringer amps. There’s a dedicated thread for each with listed parts, measurements, etc.

If you have specific questions ask away

One question I have is, do people have a "preferred" driver/tweeter/etc for the 1099's and the Volt 6's?

smcmillan2 07-20-2019 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssdesigner (Post 58320006)
One question I have is, do people have a "preferred" driver/tweeter/etc for the 1099's and the Volt 6's?

I'm pretty fond of the CDs/tweeters that come with the kits. ;):D


Seriously though, the kits are all-inclusive (except for box/connectors). You don't need any additional drivers.

lawdogx 07-20-2019 03:57 PM

The easiest thing to build is a sub, it’s just a box and a driver (even easier if you buy a pre-cut GSG sub kit). Next easiest is any DIYSG flat pack with assembled x-overs. It comes with everything except insulation, speaker wire, crimp terminals, and a terminal cup. The kits even include screws and gaskets for every driver and waveguide. They’re almost more “paint by numbers” than full DIY. And they sound fantastic. For tools, you’ll need clamps, some means of sanding any edges you didn’t line up perfectly, a drill for the terminals (with a cup bit if using terminal cups), a crimp tool is nice to use to attach crimp terminals to the ends of wires, and a screw driver. I also like to use DAP flexible caulk in my corners to make sure my box is air tight, others run a bead of glue, and others don’t bother. You’ll need some way to attach insulation, I like denim insulation and spray glue, others like staples and bed toppers. Super easy, and just ask if you get stuck, many here to help.

ssdesigner 07-21-2019 08:29 AM

So I have a decision to make as far as speaker placement. I was going to go with a 120" screen and put the subs in the rear corners of the room. But if I go with a 110" screen I can squeek the marty-15's in. This would also allow my 1099's to sit on top of the martys and get the speakers at ear height.

Question is, are the subs so close to the screen that light will shine on them causing a distraction? Would the 1099's be too high up? Here is a layout to scale:

https://i.imgur.com/rsa2eQK.jpg

lawdogx 07-21-2019 09:47 AM

The single best bang-for-the-buck audio purchase you will ever make:

https://www.minidsp.com/products/aco...urement/umik-1

you can spend many, many thousands of dollars on audio equipment and have it sound like crap because your room, like every room, sucks. For $75 and free Room EQ Wizard software you can let your room tell you where your subs will sound best. I spent years ignoring the REW advice on here because it sounded like to much work. I spent more and more money on bigger and better subs and wondered why they still didn’t sound satisfying (it was because I kept putting them in the same place, a place that looked pretty but only made bass in a few narrow bands of the bass spectrum). With REW you can test every spot in your room, find the best (least lousy?) spot, then put the second sub in whatever spot best compliments the first (has peaks where the first spot has nulls). Maybe it’ll be either side of the screen. Maybe it’ll be one in front and one in the back. Your room will tell you.

I have 3 1099’s and 2 mini marty’s directly under and to the sides of a 120” screen and have zero issues with light splash. The speakers are all black Duratex, so that may be helping.

ssdesigner 07-21-2019 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawdogx (Post 58322386)
The single best bang-for-the-buck audio purchase you will ever make:

https://www.minidsp.com/products/aco...urement/umik-1

you can spend many, many thousands of dollars on audio equipment and have it sound like crap because your room, like every room, sucks. For $75 and free Room EQ Wizard software you can let your room tell you where your subs will sound best. I spent years ignoring the REW advice on here because it sounded like to much work. I spent more and more money on bigger and better subs and wondered why they still didn’t sound satisfying (it was because I kept putting them in the same place, a place that looked pretty but only made bass in a few narrow bands of the bass spectrum). With REW you can test every spot in your room, find the best (least lousy?) spot, then put the second sub in whatever spot best compliments the first (has peaks where the first spot has nulls). Maybe it’ll be either side of the screen. Maybe it’ll be one in front and one in the back. Your room will tell you.

I have 3 1099’s and 2 mini marty’s directly under and to the sides of a 120” screen and have zero issues with light splash. The speakers are all black Duratex, so that may be helping.

Thanks for the help, lawdog. Yeah, that mic is on my list for sure.

I switched up my previous layout as you can see. It looks like the marty-15's give the space a bit more breathing room. The overall size of my theater is 12' x 18' with 90" floor to ceiling. I know the bass heads cry MORE! MORE! MORE!, but I feel like a couple of subs may be plenty in this space. Thoughts?

lawdogx 07-21-2019 10:21 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Yeah, lots of folks say “more and bigger subs,” and it’s half joking and half true. Unless the stars lined up for you and you have the one-in-a-million “perfect room,” any spot you pick is going to have a graph that looks like a roller coaster. It’ll have spots where it makes bass well (peaks) and spots where it gives you nothing (nulls). You can pile more and bigger subs in that spot and you’ll just have more bass in your peaks, and still crappy bass in your nulls. So, you look around your room and find a second spot that fills in the holes of your first. I attached a few thumbnails. The first is every available location for a sub in my room (12 of them). The second is the two “best.” For years I had a sub in the location of the red tracing in the second pic. I didn’t know it but I was only getting decent output at 35hz and 53hz. The green tracing looks equally hideous, but do you see how they compliment each other? Where one has a hole, the other fills it. Together they sound pretty good. I still had some rough spots so I added two more subs to flatten out my response. Not because “more,” but because it was delivering something I wanted, bass in frequencies my other sub locations weren’t delivering for me.

So, two subs bay be perfect for you. Heck, one may do it if you’re very, very lucky. But you won’t know until you measure.

Mocs123 07-21-2019 10:55 AM

1099's would make for a great front 3. I might do HT's or HTM's for the surrounds instead of the Volt's but you're putting together an awesome setup.


I would love to do HT-12's for the fronts with HT-8's for the surrounds and Volt 8's for Atmos, with a couple of Full Marty's and a couple of VBSS's. One day.

lawdogx 07-21-2019 11:19 AM

Another thought about your drawing, ideally you want to put the tweeter at ear hear height. On a vertical 1099 the center of the tweeter is 20” from the bottom of the speaker. My theater seats have ear level at 37” when up and 31” when fully reclined, so my speaker stands are 13.5.” What is your “ear height” sitting in your mlp? A 1099 on top of a vertically oriented sub sounds awful high.

asarose247 07-21-2019 12:08 PM

@lawdogx

WORD!

ssdesigner 07-21-2019 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawdogx (Post 58322786)
Another thought about your drawing, ideally you want to put the tweeter at ear hear height. On a vertical 1099 the center of the tweeter is 20” from the bottom of the speaker. My theater seats have ear level at 37” when up and 31” when fully reclined, so my speaker stands are 13.5.” What is your “ear height” sitting in your mlp? A 1099 on top of a vertically oriented sub sounds awful high.

Great point!

The ear height will be at 40" approx. If I turn the subs on their sides they are 20" so this gives me a near perfect tweeter height:

https://i.imgur.com/PxiOp3n.jpg

ssdesigner 07-22-2019 09:25 AM

For those of you that have put together marty subs and Erich's speakers, do you have a recommended list of bar clamps? I know that the more the better, but should I be looking at all 36" clamps? How many is enough?

lawdogx 07-22-2019 10:01 AM

Harbor freight "ratcheting bar clamp spreaders" work great and are cheap (like $5 or $6 each). I have dozens (so I can work on multiple projects at once), but 6-8 of the 24", and 2-4 of the 36", should be "enough." More would be better, and would make the job easier, especially more of the 24's.

https://www.harborfreight.com/24-in-...der-64153.html

If your Marty's are more than 36" in any dimension you might need a few of these:

https://www.harborfreight.com/48-in-...amp-60540.html

mushroommunk 07-22-2019 11:12 AM

I second the harbor freight clamp. Unless you want to step all the way up to Bessey clamps ($20+ a clamp).

A second option is one that I've been using more and more lately, I bought a nail gun and brad nail the enclosures instead of clamping them. It's been way easier for me.


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