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post #91 of 117 Old 08-07-2019, 04:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by johnson636 View Post
Disconnect all the speakers from AVR including the sub. You don't want to blow any speakers during this test. You'll need a female to female coupler and a regular rca cable

- Connect one end of th rca cable into the sub out on avr and leave the other end open.
- Connect a rca female to female coupler to the other end. if you don't have a coupler, you can use the male end to check for voltage. It's just more risky of a short
- Dial the master volume all the way to max.
- Put the multimeter in the required measuring mode (Volts) and set appropriate scale.
- Play a test tone (0dBFS 60Hz) you can find this on youtube
- Put the positive prong (red) inside the coupler and then touch the negative prong (black) on the outer rca ring.
- Your meter should read the max output voltage, whatever that is...maybe 2v. The point is to see how much voltage your avr pre-outs is outputting
How much more of a risk is there without a coupler? Where can I get one at? Amazon?
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post #92 of 117 Old 08-07-2019, 05:11 AM
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They are cheap maybe depending on where you go WalMart etc 6.00 for everything. The coupler as Johhnson suggested will allow you to connect 2 rca together they can either be with female or male ends. You can test w/o but you have the be careful if the probe touches both the gnd and the hot not good.

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post #93 of 117 Old 08-07-2019, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TIV13 View Post
How much more of a risk is there without a coupler? Where can I get one at? Amazon?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cichlid109 View Post
You can test w/o but you have the be careful if the probe touches both the gnd and the hot not good.
As Cichlid stated, you can measure without the coupler, but you run the risk of the pronge slipping and both touching either the hot or ground The you most definely will end up needing another avr

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If you have a spare rca cable that you don't necessarily need, you can cut the rca connector off one end and use the two wires (one red for + and one black for -) to check for voltage. Just cut the wire back far enough so you can twist each wire to the appropriate meter prong

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post #94 of 117 Old 08-07-2019, 08:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by johnson636 View Post
As Cichlid stated, you can measure without the coupler, but you run the risk of the pronge slipping and both touching either the hot or ground The you most definely will end up needing another avr

Amazon

If you have a spare rca cable that you don't necessarily need, you can cut the rca connector off one end and use the two wires (one red for + and one black for -) to check for voltage. Just cut the wire back far enough so you can twist each wire to the appropriate meter prong
I ordered the coupler. Not worth the risk to just wait a couple more days.
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post #95 of 117 Old 08-07-2019, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by TIV13 View Post
I ordered the coupler. Not worth the risk to just wait a couple more days.
Quite frankly, there's no need for a coupler. In fact, it'll be easier to just probe the RCA jacks.

Hold the negative probe against the RCA shell and insert the positive probe ½" into the RCA jack. Probe around with it until you see the meter register. For this purpose, an RCA jack is physically the same as a female coupler.
You'll be performing the same procedure with the coupler, only you'll have to hold down the coupler with the negative probe or you'll end up chasing it around the bench.

Really, if you're THAT concerned, then you should cut off the end of a cheap RCA cable, separate the wires, strip off some of their insulation and clip on.

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post #96 of 117 Old 08-08-2019, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Oliver Deplace View Post
Quite frankly, there's no need for a coupler. In fact, it'll be easier to just probe the RCA jacks.
Not if his equipment is in a tight spot like mine. It's easier for me to run a rca from the back to the front so I could comfortably perform this task

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Really, if you're THAT concerned, then you should cut off the end of a cheap RCA cable, separate the wires, strip off some of their insulation and clip on.
I suggested that to him already in my previous post. That is exactly what I do, but some people may not want to waste a rca cable for a task they may only perform once
I use mine for various tasks in my system

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post #97 of 117 Old 08-10-2019, 01:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnson636 View Post
Disconnect all the speakers from AVR including the sub. You don't want to blow any speakers during this test. You'll need a female to female coupler and a regular rca cable

- Connect one end of th rca cable into the sub out on avr and leave the other end open.
- Connect a rca female to female coupler to the other end. if you don't have a coupler, you can use the male end to check for voltage. It's just more risky of a short
- Dial the master volume all the way to max.
- Put the multimeter in the required measuring mode (Volts) and set appropriate scale.
- Play a test tone (0dBFS 60Hz) you can find this on youtube
- Put the positive prong (red) inside the coupler and then touch the negative prong (black) on the outer rca ring.
- Your meter should read the max output voltage, whatever that is...maybe 2v. The point is to see how much voltage your avr pre-outs is outputting
This is the multi meter I got.

What setting do I need to turn the dial to?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1


For this step "Put the positive prong (red) inside the coupler and then touch the negative prong (black) on the outer rca ring"
The negative prong going to the rca ring, is that the rca ring connected to the coupler? Correct?

Thank you for the help.

Edit :max volume on my avr, correct?

Last edited by TIV13; 08-10-2019 at 02:14 AM.
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post #98 of 117 Old 08-10-2019, 05:41 AM
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To measure the voltage turn the dial to the 20V setting 3rd setting to the left of off. Do exactly as suggest with everything disconnected with volume on max. if the sub pre outs are good you will read approx 2 volts if bad close to 0 or nothing. If you should get nothing then very excellent chance the Denon needs repair. Based on the tests so far hopefully the problem is getting narrowed down?

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post #99 of 117 Old 08-10-2019, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TIV13 View Post
This is the multi meter I got.

What setting do I need to turn the dial to?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1


For this step "Put the positive prong (red) inside the coupler and then touch the negative prong (black) on the outer rca ring"
The negative prong going to the rca ring, is that the rca ring connected to the coupler? Correct?

Thank you for the help.

Edit :max volume on my avr, correct?
Since you're only looking for about 2v, set your meter to the lowest AC voltage setting. Positive prong inside the coupler and negative prong outside.

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post #100 of 117 Old 08-10-2019, 07:48 AM
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Well ok if 20 was too high drop it down, my mistake.

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post #101 of 117 Old 08-10-2019, 04:30 PM - Thread Starter
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I adjusted the dial to 10 and 200. Both on the right side of the multi meter.
I plugged up my RCA cable to sub output 1 and put the red inside and the black on the outside metal part.
The multi meter registered at 0 on both the 10 and 200.

Does that sound right? Sounds like its got no output.

Edit:
I turned my volume up to max(91) and used this youtube video.

I played the video while touching the coupler. I did this 3 times and got nothing all 3 times.
Did I do anything wrong?
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post #102 of 117 Old 08-10-2019, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TIV13 View Post
I adjusted the dial to 10 and 200. Both on the right side of the multi meter.
I plugged up my RCA cable to sub output 1 and put the red inside and the black on the outside metal part.
The multi meter registered at 0 on both the 10 and 200.

Does that sound right? Sounds like its got no output.

Edit:
I turned my volume up to max(91) and used this youtube video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqwFimG3X3w

I played the video while touching the coupler. I did this 3 times and got nothing all 3 times.
Did I do anything wrong?
Check the center channel rca the same way. If you register 2v from the center channel rca, then your sub out rca is bad.

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post #103 of 117 Old 08-10-2019, 09:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Check the center channel rca the same way. If you register 2v from the center channel rca, then your sub out rca is bad.
Does it matter which color I check? Do I need to use the rca cable or regular speaker one? Donno if that matters but want to ask.

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post #104 of 117 Old 08-11-2019, 12:38 AM
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Does it matter which color I check? Do I need to use the rca cable or regular speaker one? Donno if that matters but want to ask.

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Check the RCA for the center channel just as you check Ed the RCA for the subwoofer channel.

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post #105 of 117 Old 08-11-2019, 03:15 AM
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So far its looking like sub pre outs not good if when you check a known good one and you get 2V now you know where the problem lies and at least you know your set up for the mini was good along with subs and amp. If indeed it is the Denon hope its still under warranty?

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post #106 of 117 Old 08-11-2019, 10:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Check the RCA for the center channel just as you check Ed the RCA for the subwoofer channel.

I did the test as above with the rca cable, and wiggled it around inside the black center slot and got 0.00 too.
So now I'm wondering if I did the original test correct.

My center channel is traditional speaker cable wire(red black). The RCA cable won't plug into the center slot on the back of my AVR.
Can I touch the multimeter straight to the speaker wire cable(black) and not worry about my AVR blowing up?

Edit: The coupler wont fit on the cable end of the speaker wire.

Last edited by TIV13; 08-11-2019 at 10:46 PM.
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post #107 of 117 Old 08-12-2019, 06:00 AM
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I did the test as above with the rca cable, and wiggled it around inside the black center slot and got 0.00 too.
So now I'm wondering if I did the original test correct.

My center channel is traditional speaker cable wire(red black). The RCA cable won't plug into the center slot on the back of my AVR.
Can I touch the multimeter straight to the speaker wire cable(black) and not worry about my AVR blowing up?

Edit: The coupler wont fit on the cable end of the speaker wire.
What What do you mean the the rca won't plug into the center slot? What model denon do you have The reason I suggested testing the center channel rca was to compare you subwoofer channel to a none working channel.

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post #108 of 117 Old 08-12-2019, 06:03 AM - Thread Starter
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What What do you mean the the rca won't plug into the center slot? What model denon do you have The reason I suggested testing the center channel rca was to compare you subwoofer channel to a none working channel.
Denon 4400.
The plug is made for banana plugs and not rca cables. There is a piece of plastic blocking the rca cable from being plugged in.
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post #109 of 117 Old 08-12-2019, 06:07 AM
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Denon 4400.
The plug is made for banana plugs and not rca cables. There is a piece of plastic blocking the rca cable from being plugged in.
I'm not sure what you're talking about, but you should have a rca pre out for the center channel right about the subwoofer 1 rca pre out.

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post #110 of 117 Old 08-12-2019, 06:13 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm not sure what you're talking about, but you should have a rca pre out for the center channel right about the subwoofer 1 rca pre out.
You are correct. I just checked a picture.
I'll do the test later today and hopefully this will be the last of it.

Thank you so much for your help.

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post #111 of 117 Old 08-13-2019, 01:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Just did the test.
I had to use the 200 on the right side.
The center pre out had 1.5. The sub had 0.
I did the test 3 different times and got basically the same result.
Looks like the pre out is bad. Does that sound right to anyone else?
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post #112 of 117 Old 08-13-2019, 05:17 AM
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Just did the test.
I had to use the 200 on the right side.
The center pre out had 1.5. The sub had 0.
I did the test 3 different times and got basically the same result.
Looks like the pre out is bad. Does that sound right to anyone else?
Are you sure your speakers are set to small? It is odd that the sub out is not registering any voltage at all. If you're up to it, try measuring the voltage of the sub out while playing the internal avr test tone. You did say you get sound from the subwoofer while playing the internal avr test tone correct?

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post #113 of 117 Old 08-13-2019, 05:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Are you sure your speakers are set to small? It is odd that the sub out is not registering any voltage at all. If you're up to it, try measuring the voltage of the sub out while playing the internal avr test tone. You did say you get sound from the subwoofer while playing the internal avr test tone correct?
Yes that was one of the first things I found in my online research.

I did get sound correct. Just very quite.

I will do that later this afternoon.

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post #114 of 117 Old 08-13-2019, 06:31 AM
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Not implying what you did is wrong but based on everything I know and have read it seems you have something set wrong? If it were me I would start over and go step by step. I am sure your Denon has a setup menu. In my opinion you have something set wrong if the sub preouts were shot then there would be no sound but in your case some but quiet. You really need to follow directions and read the manual my best guess and its only guess if you were to send the Denon back and get it replaced odds are the next one would give you the same issues. We can suggest but in the end you have to do your part as well.

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post #115 of 117 Old 08-13-2019, 07:09 AM
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if you were to send the Denon back and get it replaced odds are the next one would give you the same issues.
That is a concern I have as well. OP, have you run a setup Audyssey calibration. If I'm not mistaken, you have to run the calibration while the subwoofer is present and active. In other words, you can't run the calibration without a sub, then add a sub later without rerunning another calibration... doesn't work that way. I think
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Audio: 5.2.4 Marantz SR7011- (LCR) Stage Right 15" PA- (Surrounds) (4) BIC FH6-LCR- (Atmos) (4) Dayton Audio B652 6-1/2-Inch- (Subs)2 23ishcuft ported HS24s 14-15Hz tune- 4 PA460 in ported cabs 40Hz tune- FP20000Q- 2 Sanway FP10000Q- Crown XLS1500- . To be continued...
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post #116 of 117 Old 08-13-2019, 01:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnson636 View Post
That is a concern I have as well. OP, have you run a setup Audyssey calibration. If I'm not mistaken, you have to run the calibration while the subwoofer is present and active. In other words, you can't run the calibration without a sub, then add a sub later without rerunning another calibration... doesn't work that way. I think
Yea I definitely don't want to waste money on sending it off and not have the issue resolved.

I did re run x32 when I plugged up my subs. It was actually one of the first things I did.

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post #117 of 117 Old 08-13-2019, 01:54 PM
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Considering everything also knowing Denon makes a good product I find it hard to believe that a brand new Denon is not working its possible but not likely. I stand by my previous post if it were me I would disconnect everything follow the Audyessy set up. On my Denon I go the set up assistant yours should be about the same. Provided you follow it properly you should get sound out of subs. As many questions as you have asked it just seems whether I am right or wrong you missed something as far as setup goes. I could be wrong but before you return the Denon if it were me I would redo but that is me and I am not you.



























up the spkrs then adding a sub

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