What's your 'unlimited funds' dream 2-way bookshelf made with? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 24 Old 08-09-2019, 06:17 AM - Thread Starter
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What's your 'unlimited funds' dream 2-way bookshelf made with?

Looking for ideas on the very best possible combination of woofer, tweeter, and crossover for a classic bookshelf speaker with a ~6.5" woofer and single tweeter. Exotic materials, stupidly-high-end components, what is the very best money can buy for a top end DIY project? Sealed or ported, 100% for music and will be used with a pair of subs.

Please consider integration as well, not just highest price woofer plus highest price tweeter plus highest price crossover, I understand that combination could come out sounding awful.

Any ideas appreciated!
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post #2 of 24 Old 08-09-2019, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
Looking for ideas on the very best possible combination of woofer, tweeter, and crossover for a classic bookshelf speaker with a ~6.5" woofer and single tweeter. Exotic materials, stupidly-high-end components, what is the very best money can buy for a top end DIY project? Sealed or ported, 100% for music and will be used with a pair of subs.

Please consider integration as well, not just highest price woofer plus highest price tweeter plus highest price crossover, I understand that combination could come out sounding awful.

Any ideas appreciated!
The biggest ribbon I could fit would be where I would start .... but I dont know a single thing about design of speakers.
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post #3 of 24 Old 08-09-2019, 06:43 AM
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Speakers are complex components, and one design decision effects everything else. It’s not enough to simply find the best, most expensive parts and throw them all together. It requires the careful application of artful science. Even if this were possible, what is “best” is subjectively defined: what you like may not be exactly what I like, and there are some variations in individual frequency response.


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post #4 of 24 Old 08-09-2019, 06:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by healthnut View Post
Speakers are complex components, and one design decision effects everything else. It’s not enough to simply find the best, most expensive parts and throw them all together. It requires the careful application of artful science. Even if this were possible, what is “best” is subjectively defined: what you like may not be exactly what I like, and there are some variations in individual frequency response.
I know what you mean, that's why I said "Please consider integration as well, not just highest price woofer plus highest price tweeter plus highest price crossover, I understand that combination could come out sounding awful."

Looking for peoples personal ideas for their ultimate DIY bookshelf here.
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post #5 of 24 Old 08-09-2019, 11:12 AM
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Raal Ribbon, something like the 70-20XR.

Maybe a 7” Seas Excel Woofer?
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Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #6 of 24 Old 08-09-2019, 05:44 PM
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The best 2-way speaker is room treatments.
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post #7 of 24 Old 08-09-2019, 07:53 PM
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I'm not sure, I've never tried a cost no object two way before. Any size or shape constraints at all?

I'd probably buy a few woofers to test with a few tweeter combinations. Anarchy 7 would be in there. Accuton Uber 8 midwoofer as well. A few high end prosound drivers. The sartori 7.

I never quoted liked the polar blending of ribbon tweet and cone woofer but maybe I'd give that another shot. Accuton diamond tweeter would get tested along with some of the other high end beryllium etc domes. I've never had great success with waveguides but I'd give a seos guide paired with top end compression driver another shot paired with a big midwoofer like an ae TD driver Geddes style.

Is MTM fair game?
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post #8 of 24 Old 08-09-2019, 08:17 PM
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Point being what? Most money spent?

These posts don't make much sense to me. If someone put together the "best" combination of woofer/tweeter/crossover/cabinet, what would it sound like in my room?

Have to agree with BTH - Treating the room is probably the best thing you can do for your speakers.
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post #9 of 24 Old 08-10-2019, 01:46 AM
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personally the tweeter and woofer are easier to chose than doing room treatments or DSP.


If anything I'd get a 2-3 way plate amplifier with DSP and run them actively, then measure your room and treat the room based off of your likes.
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post #10 of 24 Old 08-10-2019, 05:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by smcmillan2 View Post
Point being what? Most money spent?

These posts don't make much sense to me. If someone put together the "best" combination of woofer/tweeter/crossover/cabinet, what would it sound like in my room?

Have to agree with BTH - Treating the room is probably the best thing you can do for your speakers.
The point is just to get some ideas for the absolute best DIY 2-way that can be put together with current drivers, tech, design. It's weird to me how many people have commented that they don't get it. I guess if you don't get it, this probably isn't the thread for you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigus View Post
I'm not sure, I've never tried a cost no object two way before. Any size or shape constraints at all?

I'd probably buy a few woofers to test with a few tweeter combinations. Anarchy 7 would be in there. Accuton Uber 8 midwoofer as well. A few high end prosound drivers. The sartori 7.

I never quoted liked the polar blending of ribbon tweet and cone woofer but maybe I'd give that another shot. Accuton diamond tweeter would get tested along with some of the other high end beryllium etc domes. I've never had great success with waveguides but I'd give a seos guide paired with top end compression driver another shot paired with a big midwoofer like an ae TD driver Geddes style.

Is MTM fair game?
RE: MTM, I was really thinking traditional stand mounted bookshelf speakers, but if you have ideas for a great MTM, go for it.

I saw those diamond tweeters and wondered if they could really be that much better than RAAL or beryllium. I'd consider those, but the $7k/pair SEAS diamond tweeters seemed a little crazy.

edit: Wow, the SEAS option was $3k a few years ago, wonder what happened?!?

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post #11 of 24 Old 08-10-2019, 05:28 AM
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Why are you worried about cost in an unlimited funds dream exercise?
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post #12 of 24 Old 08-10-2019, 05:30 AM
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My point being: A system is only as strong as the weakest link.

In terms of acoustics, the percentages are roughly as follows:
~50.0% of the sound you hear is actually wall reflections and room-shape (ceiling and floor inclusive.)
~40.0% of the sound you hear is speakers (drivers, box, XO's)
~9.0% DSP
~0.9% electronics
~0.1% accessories

If you don't treat the room then you automatically lose half of your sound quality. (Not good!)
If you don't use DSP, then the speaker makes up ~49% instead.
If you use active crossovers and amplification (instead of passive analog) then I'd say the speaker is ~35% and ~14% is DSP.

So, spend accordingly...
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post #13 of 24 Old 08-10-2019, 05:32 AM
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For the box you could do dual 1inch MDF with GreenGlue between them, and well braced.
Then apply whatever veneer you want on top of it. A lot of high-end speakers are built this way.

If you want to get more-fancy you could do quad 1/4" MDF and triple 1/8th sheet aluminum with GreenGlue between all 7 layers. The alumimum gives high-density and high-mass and high-rigidity, and the total-sum of all of them given viscoelastic damping and dissimilar-material constrained layer damping.


For standard drivers (i.e non-compression drivers) then I'd say the B&W snails has the right concept for the speaker enclosure. i.e you want a very-long inverse tapered tube with variable-stuffing (dense in the tip and light near the driver).
The idea being, that the backwave should "do no harm".
This of course is impractical though because you have to have fiberglass'ing skills (molds, resins etc) or 3D printed. Also requiring sufficient space for the tapered design in the listening room; and then there is the aesthetic considerations... that pretty much locks you into that particular look.

Just throwing out some ideas.

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Point being what? Most money spent?
I believe he just wants the best sound possible (given the constraints: 2-way bookshelf.)
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post #14 of 24 Old 08-10-2019, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
The point is just to get some ideas for the absolute best DIY 2-way that can be put together with current drivers, tech, design. It's weird to me how many people have commented that they don't get it. I guess if you don't get it, this probably isn't the thread for you?



RE: MTM, I was really thinking traditional stand mounted bookshelf speakers, but if you have ideas for a great MTM, go for it.

I saw those diamond tweeters and wondered if they could really be that much better than RAAL or beryllium. I'd consider those, but the $7k/pair SEAS diamond tweeters seemed a little crazy.

edit: Wow, the SEAS option was $3k a few years ago, wonder what happened?!?
Because its all a game of "depends," the more money spent doesn't necessarily mean "better" but DIY'ers will pick based off of needs. For my needs/wants I wouldn't go bookshelf but if you wanted a bookshelf that is cheap and is amazingly flat to 100hz check out the Fusion 8, if you want expensive and extends deep then look at something from Jeff Bagby.
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post #15 of 24 Old 08-10-2019, 09:48 AM
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Volt-10 V2- with a 10" woofer added to extend bass-or a nice PR- and then proper/better room treatments.
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post #16 of 24 Old 08-10-2019, 09:53 AM
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bmr kit from Dennis Murphy.. and i'm not sure i could justify that expense .. but if i could that would be it..

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. wharfedale 10.1s... ascend cbm 170 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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post #17 of 24 Old 08-10-2019, 10:00 AM
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I think you'd be much better off with a 3-way bookshelf.

When I was designing my Atmos heights I was considering these to cover the lows for a time...
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...iber-midrange/



https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...8-ohm--295-398



I ended up using these in my 3-way Atmos heights, my budget was close to unlimited also.
http://www.usspeaker.com/beyma%206mcf200nd-1.htm


https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...super-tweeter/


They aren't $7k diamond tweeters, but they are about ~10db more efficient than them.
I measured the Fostex's with my UMIK-1 (which is calibrated for 5hz to 25khz), and it was smooth and flat from 3.5khz to 25khz. "Good enough..."
I ended up using 2nd-order XO's, one at ~10khz and another at ~400hz. Which yields this simulation:

My only constraint was a 3inch mounting depth, which is actually a rather big constraint.
You likely don't have that constraint.

I chose not to do ribbon tweeters only because I just hadn't used them in the past, but these were contenders also:
https://www.parts-express.com/aurum-...eeter--276-420


I'm not sure if going with ribbons would have been better or worse...

IMO any of these should be on your "consider these" list...
-My 2 cents.
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post #18 of 24 Old 08-10-2019, 10:03 AM
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Every budget has a limit.

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post #19 of 24 Old 08-10-2019, 10:11 AM
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Every budget has a limit.
Tell that to bassthathz.
Budgets are fixed prices you don't go beyond.
He just keeps spending. He doesn't stop. He's a degenerate audio gear buyer!
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post #20 of 24 Old 08-10-2019, 10:24 AM
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He's no exception
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post #21 of 24 Old 08-10-2019, 02:51 PM
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I don't know "what" I have...

But I do KNOW I've spent $22,000 in audio in the last 12 months alone. $6500 of that was for crossovers. hehe!
I'm not even sure "how much" my system costs as-is, but its gotta be in the 6 figures by now...

Is there WAY better gear than what I have? Why YES. Yes there IS! (32 24's being one example!)
I'd like to think I have a decent "all-around-er". Nothing "too crazy", but not "poop" either...

If there is something I want, I save up and then I buy it (and if something better comes out before I'm done saving up, I buy that instead... )
I have an income, which is a limiter, I've never imposed a ceiling though.
My ceiling is retirement, which is several decades away...
The ultimate ceiling being our death (which can randomly be whenever).

Besides, the op was the one who proclaimed "unlimited funds".

Anyhow...
It is NOT about the money (or it shouldn't be ). It's about the performance and capabilities of the gear.
Sometimes the most expensive gear has WORSE performance (or just different features.)
and if it is digital electronics (like players, projectors and decoders), it's guaranteed to be outdated within 1-5 years or less, regardless... [Gotta have that 32K HDMI 99.9, right?]

In any case, none of us "needs" any of this junk...
We do it because we "like it", because we "want to", and because "we can". Simple as that.
(Pretty much the same logical-reasoning as to why "anyone does anything" on or off this planet... )

The rest of the things we don't like and didn't want to do... is called: Work!
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post #22 of 24 Old 08-12-2019, 10:40 AM
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8 mid woofers 8 ribbon tweets per l c r , surround l c r Transparent glass enclosure for looks and solidity with holes cut with water jet.
Paired with 32 ib subwoofers in concrete boxes.
Room treatments are outdoors home theater .

Yamaha avr, diy l c r surround Behringer nx3000 dsp Fi car audio ib318 v2 310 cubic foot concrete ib lg pf 1500 projector.steren projector mount at diy 135 inch screen triple 15 boss build .
Pending buy fourty 6 inch drivers for some new mains new 4k projector 1240 cubic foot ib for 16 fi car audio ib318 v2 subwoofers 4 nx3000 dsp
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post #23 of 24 Old 08-12-2019, 11:10 AM
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Isn't the Carmody Carrera at least a "90%" the way there 2-way build? I realize it has a 5.5" woofer, but for music that's not necessarily inferior to a 6.5" woofer and it may actually sound better (in some cases) than a larger woofer.

You could spend a lot more and not really improve a ton from that basic build.
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post #24 of 24 Old 08-12-2019, 02:12 PM
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Probably go all Scan Speak, a D3004/6640 or a D3404/5520, and a 18WE/4542T. Honestly though, a pair of Satori MW16P's and SB26CDC's would probably get you 95%+ of the performance for 2/3rds the cost of one of the Ellipticor woofers.
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