Sub crawl w/ poor results need advice - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 16 Old 08-14-2019, 11:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Sub crawl w/ poor results need advice

So I did the sub crawl this weekend with my Klipsch reference 10" sub and of course the best sound came from placing it right under my L front speaker. Since I have a built-in entertainment center, it is not feasible to leave the sub in that location and still stay married. I started building two ported jbl cs1214's end tables hoping it would even out the bass (see coffee table 2 pic) but when I moved the Klipsch to each of those 2 locations at the end of the couch, it sounded very boomy until I pulled it about 3 ft away from the wall, which again is less than ideal.

The Klipsch is rear ported so I turned it around a few times and it still sounded bad. Will a front ported or down ported design have less boominess if I place them in those same locations or are the bass waves so long that anything in those locations will be a compromise?

Options....

1. Build the 2 ported subs anyway and place them in locations #2 and #3 (Alt sub location pic) and hope they even out the bass?
2. Stuff a small front ported or sealed sub in the entertainment center (pic) and live with the fact that I may rattle it all loose and I will never see below 35hz?
3. Sell the jbls and build a massive 18in sealed sub to pressurize the whole room and not worry about location?
4. Other?

Room is a large rectangle open on the R side to the kitchen approx. 16x24x11ft ceilings and the couch is against the back wall...I know, I know it's my main living/movie room since I have no dedicated theater.

Thanks all!
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post #2 of 16 Old 08-14-2019, 12:36 PM
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Without being able to measure the frequency response, all you can do is hope that 2 subs placed at opposite ends of the couch will even out the bass response. It's unlikely that bass from 2 different locations will end up with perfectly overlapping peaks & dips, so there will be some averaging out (smoothing) as peaks from one sub fill in the dips from the other sub (and vice versa). A single sub can't compensate for it's own peaks & nulls, so I would stick with 2 subs (instead of a single 18" sub).

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post #3 of 16 Old 08-14-2019, 01:39 PM - Thread Starter
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@sdurani thank you so much, I like to build sh*t and know nothing about measurements, frequency responses, etc. so I better start reading up!
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post #4 of 16 Old 08-14-2019, 03:09 PM
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Here is another option may not be the best but it will help. Only thing you need is the mic that came with your rcvr. First you need to download REW its free it use to be you had to sign up at Home Theater Shack to get the download it may have changed. Once downloaded turn on REW click on the RTA ( real time analyzer ) on the signal gen. click on that using pink noise or sine wave set it for a 60hz 0dbfs test tone now you see what type of response your getting from the sub. Your looking for the flattest response it may take some moving around but it will help. Using you rcvrs mic is not the best option but it will give you better then nothing results.

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post #5 of 16 Old 08-14-2019, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eriksells916 View Post
@sdurani thank you so much, I like to build sh*t and know nothing about measurements, frequency responses, etc. so I better start reading up!
OmniMic is so simple to operate, tons of support online! It would be a great addition if ur gonna be building and tweaking.
Starting with ur sub is a great way to introduce urself to the world of calibration

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post #6 of 16 Old 08-14-2019, 04:00 PM - Thread Starter
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thanks @Cichlid109 and @kgveteran . I have been pondering getting an rz830 and thus would need a minidsp with umik/rew to calibrate dual subs. I just started reading about it so would that be a solution similar to what you both suggested?

Thanks!
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post #7 of 16 Old 08-15-2019, 01:42 AM
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Smile

I get to spend max a hundred dollars per month on home theater so here goes.I got 4 fi car audio ib318 v2 subwoofers and a behringer nx3000 dsp amplifier in an infinite baffle .


I am biased towards infinite baffle but so far out of small sealed to large ported the infinite baffle gives me the best sound with best waf


Like i said i am biased towards infinite baffle .

Yamaha avr, diy l c r surround Behringer nx3000 dsp Fi car audio ib318 v2 310 cubic foot concrete ib lg pf 1500 projector.steren projector mount at diy 135 inch screen triple 15 boss build .
Pending buy fourty 6 inch drivers for some new mains new 4k projector 1240 cubic foot ib for 16 fi car audio ib318 v2 subwoofers 4 nx3000 dsp
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post #8 of 16 Old 08-25-2019, 02:17 PM
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This has escalated quickly.

I posted in the wrong thread entirely. Very sorry.

Last edited by iH8usrnames; 08-25-2019 at 09:30 PM. Reason: I'm an idiot and posted this in the wrong thread entirely. Sorry.
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post #9 of 16 Old 08-25-2019, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by iH8usrnames View Post
This has escalated quickly.
(snip)
And this has to do with the OP's issue with sub position/selection how?

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post #10 of 16 Old 08-25-2019, 02:56 PM
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boomy can be a room resonance.

that can be fixed with eq, more or less.

pulling the couch away from the way a foot or so may help too.

the "massive 18 inch sealed" will have the same issues.

the dual subs strategy may be better.

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post #11 of 16 Old 08-25-2019, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eriksells916 View Post
So I did the sub crawl this weekend with my Klipsch reference 10" sub and of course the best sound came from placing it right under my L front speaker. I started building two ported jbl cs1214's end tables..
I would build 2 sub-main speaker combos to fit in the cavities where your 2 main speakers are right now. One box with sub driver below and mid and tweeter above (like in the old days ). Each driver with it's own internal cavity.
The first sub will be right where you are getting the best sound currently - at L front speaker location. Hopefully the second sub in the opposite corner won't affect the sub sound at listening position negatively.

That might actually make your better half even happier since no boxes around the couch..

Last edited by Will P; 08-25-2019 at 05:02 PM.
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post #12 of 16 Old 08-25-2019, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eriksells916 View Post
2. Stuff a small front ported or sealed sub in the entertainment center (pic) and live with the fact that I may rattle it all loose and I will never see below 35hz?
You can use 2 opposing sub drivers per box to avoid any vibrations
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post #13 of 16 Old 08-25-2019, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eriksells916 View Post
Room is a large rectangle open on the R side to the kitchen approx. 16x24x11ft ceilings and the couch is against the back wall...
11ft celings... Hmm.. That means all built-in entertainment center cabinets/ shelves above 8.5 ft would be out of reach and unusable..

I would build a multi-sub horizontal array and fill flush the built-in entertainment center upper shelf all the way to the ceiling - subs from corner to corner..

Given those subs are all lined up in the Front Upper corner and your sitting positions are in the Rear Lower corner the sub sound coverage would be extremely even in the sitting area and plenty of SPL on top of that too.. It's like the focal spot (line) for the subwoofers line array.

Besides that the couch is exactly where a bass trap for that line array is to be placed - absorbing sub sound waves going to and bouncing from the back walls in the Rear Lower corner. Perfect..

While sitting on the couch you would hear a lot more direct LF sound then usual. That is the ultimate goal..

Last edited by Will P; 08-25-2019 at 06:04 PM.
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post #14 of 16 Old 08-25-2019, 09:29 PM
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And this has to do with the OP's issue with sub position/selection how?
Crap. I'm sorry.

I started a thread about building a sub in my crawlspace to be used on the patio. I meant to update my own thread and hit this one instead. Very sorry, posted in wrong place.
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post #15 of 16 Old 08-26-2019, 06:33 AM
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Ha my living room is your option 3 photo lol.

So I feel it necessary to chime in: having 2 18" flanking the couch does not necessarily get rid of room nulls, speaking from experience. What I have done is made the subs so loud that despite my MLP sitting in a null, they still sound good.

That being said, the more subs the better regarding room response.

My recommendation using your current sub would be to put it where it sounds boomy (you are likely getting an additive effect from the corner/walls) and then adjust EQ (echoing LTD02). That seems to be the best way to get the most bang for the buck.

So before investing in new speakers get yourself a MiniDSP HD and a MiniDSP UMIK-1 and try to even out your curve in one of the boomy spots.

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post #16 of 16 Old 08-26-2019, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone, I am going to look into the minidsp this week. I will place two of them in multiple locations and keep tweaking until it sounds good. If not then I will just crank it like @jevchance until it sounds great! LOL
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