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Can someone explain these specifications to me?

1K views 27 replies 7 participants last post by  mhutchins 
#1 ·
I understand that the ohm value is dependent on the speaker itself and the configuration of the speakers in series/parallel.

What I don't understand is what determines the different RMS watts per channel in this specification books chart? It seems to me that a header with different categories is missing, but most likely it's implied. I've included a link to the manual of my amp where I obtained the attached screen capture from also.

I'm having an issue where this amp is not putting out the amount of wattage it should and I'm trying to figure out what I've configured incorrectly on it. (apparently Idk what I'm doing and need help) .

https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/manuals/248-4070-pyle-pro-pta3000-manual.pdf (page 11)
 

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#2 ·
@gte I don't own one of those amps but others here who can help will probably need to know a few things first.

1. What speakers do you have?
2. Are they 4 or 8 ohm?
3. How did you wire then from the Pyle?
4. How do you know the Pyle is not putting out the correct amount of wpc?
5. What device is driving the Pyle?

p.s. Its blurry so I cant see it, but those look like the power specs for the Pyle relating to the channels driven, series wiring vs. bridged wiring, 8 ohm speakers vs 4 ohm speakers.

p.s.s If it sounds too low or sounds like crap then you could have a bad speaker(s) or you possibly wired them incorrectly.

Those are some initial thoughts, hope it helps.
 
#3 ·
If you click on the attachment or the li nk to the pdf file, it's not blurry anymore. The forum is doing that.

1/2.I used a 12" Kenwood to test with, 4ohm. I have not purchased any permanent speakers yet and am in the process of deciding which ones to get.
3. It's wired in bridged mono mode and I also tried it in a single channel mode. It's with 18 gauge speaker wire and of course + goes to + and - to - if that's what you are asking.
4. I'm going to use some measuring devices to test with today, but it's underperforming so much, something isn't correct. I don't know what it is yet, but to get any decent bass out of a single 12, I'm pushing a "supposed" 2000w rms to it, which should virtually explode the speaker. I'm sure that my lack of knowledge is the issue.
5. I'm using a Denon avr-s700w receiver.


Hopefully this image is better. I'm thinking of returning it and getting something better as the more I read about Pyle on this forum, the more I'm uneasy? I'm a newb at home audio, but not at car audio if that helps.


 
#5 ·
The way I have it hooked up is there are 2 preouts on the Denon and I've piped them into the Pyle to test the 2 different amp inputs. I'm only using the amp to drive subs.

I have a small window to return it, so if it's not a configuration error (me) I want to be able to do that.



 
#6 ·
@gte the s700 has a y splitter in those subs outs, so are trying to use both outputs into the Pyle or do you have a single lfe signal going from the s700 into the pyle? I do not see an lfe input which means you are probably not going to be able to output anything below 40hz?

I see that this pyle is used a lot for PA sound system speakers but I cannot find any useful info on how to use it with a sub, let alone dual subs. You could possibly ask @rboster to move this to the diy speaker and sub forum as those guys over there know everything about subs and amps.


Good luck!
 
#7 · (Edited)
Quick and simple biased answer, with a short return window:

It says Pyle on the front of the box, return it.

Look around the diy section here. You'll start running across the same 5ish amps/brands.

Speakerpower
Crown
Peavey/Crest
Behringer
Clones


Behringer NU or NX, DSP, is probably the value leader.

As far as configuration, I don't know that receiver. Just make sure you have the RCA to XLR or TRS wired properly. There is a third wire for low level balanced connections on a pro amp that you aren't used to.
 
#10 ·
So you are saying scrap the amp or the amp and the receiver? I believe I have the rca to xlr wired properly, they're just mono cables from line out to line in correct?

I understand that the ohm value is dependent on the speaker itself and the configuration of the speakers in series/parallel.

What I don't understand is what determines the different RMS watts per channel in this specification books chart? It seems to me that a header with different categories is missing, but most likely it's implied. I've included a link to the manual of my amp where I obtained the attached screen capture from also.

I'm having an issue where this amp is not putting out the amount of wattage it should and I'm trying to figure out what I've configured incorrectly on it. (apparently Idk what I'm doing and need help) .

https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/manuals/248-4070-pyle-pro-pta3000-manual.pdf (page 11)
Hi gte,

The problem is a gain mismatch between the subwoofer output of your receiver and the line input for your amplifier. Consumer audio gear expects a line level peak voltage of < 0.5V for max volume whereas pro gear expects a line level input of > 1.7V for max volume (wattage) output. This wiki will explain the mismatch, but bottom line is the best you could expect with your setup is only 25% power output from your amp.

Mike
That makes sense with my 'symptoms' and the 1.7v sounds like a standard silicone transistor turn on voltage value where as 0.5v sounds like a transistor with a more exotic material (gallium iirc?)

To make sure I understand you, the Pyle wants 1.7v and the Denon only outputs 0.5v? Is there a conversion interface device? If not, do you recommend swapping out the receiver or amp kr both?

What I don't understand is what determines the different RMS watts per channel in this specification books chart?
The watts that the coil can handle is mostly defined by the awg of the voicecoil, and the ventilation and amount of mass surrounding it, also possibly xmech...

For the amplifier it is based on what the internal components can handle into a given ohm.
Generally it is the transistors that are the primary limit, they convert the ac to dc and dc to ac while also boosting the signal. Basically any silicon gate (rectifiers, diodes, NPN/PNP's etc)
So those values listed in the spec book are dependent on the build properties of the speaker components? I'm not sure I understood?

As for why you aren't getting the output you want... well for starters:
1) marketing people lie
Additionally, XLR requires MUCH higher input voltages.

If the amp has a level indicator, -3db would be half-power, clip is full-power and -10db is 1/10th power, -20db is 1/100th power.
So until you can clip the output, you aren't at full power just yet (and that is assuming the breaker holds, and the amplifier doesn't melt or explode in the process... $h1t happens!)
This matches what I see. The most I see on the lcd scale is - 10db and that would match what I am experiencing. I appreciate this explanation. Should I get rid of the receiver and replace it with one that has the proper line out voltage?
 
#8 ·
Hi gte,

The problem is a gain mismatch between the subwoofer output of your receiver and the line input for your amplifier. Consumer audio gear expects a line level peak voltage of < 0.5V for max volume whereas pro gear expects a line level input of > 1.7V for max volume (wattage) output. This wiki will explain the mismatch, but bottom line is the best you could expect with your setup is only 25% power output from your amp.

Mike
 
#9 · (Edited)
What I don't understand is what determines the different RMS watts per channel in this specification books chart?
The watts that the coil can handle is mostly defined by the awg of the voicecoil, and the ventilation and amount of mass surrounding it, also possibly xmech...

For the amplifier it is based on what the internal components can handle into a given ohm.
Generally it is the transistors that are the primary limit, they convert the ac to dc and dc to ac while also boosting the signal. Basically any silicon gate (rectifiers, diodes, NPN/PNP's etc)

As for why you aren't getting the output you want... well for starters:
1) marketing people lie
Additionally, XLR requires MUCH higher input voltages.

If the amp has a level indicator, -3db would be half-power, clip is full-power and -10db is 1/10th power, -20db is 1/100th power.
So until you can clip the output, you aren't at full power just yet (and that is assuming the breaker holds, and the amplifier doesn't melt or explode in the process... $h1t happens!)
 
#12 · (Edited)
I actually like the amp and do not like the receiver as it's so overly complex. I am probably going to try to find a different 7.2 receiver that's less complex to set up and does not require a tv to configure and has more buttons and knobs lol.

I ordered a mini dsp (thanks for that suggestion) and will report back on the difference, hopefully it's significant. 🙂

If not, I'll try a crown as reference level suggested, along with a less complicated receiver.
 
#17 ·
...
What I don't understand is what determines the different RMS watts per channel in this specification books chart? It seems to me that a header with different categories is missing, but most likely it's implied. I've included a link to the manual of my amp where I obtained the attached screen capture from also.
...
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/manuals/248-4070-pyle-pro-pta3000-manual.pdf (page 11)
each column in the manual is for a different amplifier.

there is no indication which column applies to your amplifier.

the website indicates "total power" as 3000 watts, so using a universal translator, it is probably a 150 watt per channel amp, maybe.

https://www.pyleaudio.com/sku/PTA3000

a guy on amazon seems to suggest that it is a 150-200 watt amp or perhaps a little more.



https://www.amazon.com/Pyle-PTA3000-3000W-Professional-Amplifier/dp/B0010KAJLY
 

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#18 ·
a guy on amazon seems to suggest that it is a 150-200 watt amp or perhaps a little more.

I love it. They can't even spell "no" correctly... that's gotta instill some confidence. LOL! :D
 
#20 ·
I don't know if it means anything but it's only 2 channels and they are currently bridged?

Do you still think it's only 150w per channel out of a theoretical 1500w per channel?



...
What I don't understand is what determines the different RMS watts per channel in this specification books chart? It seems to me that a header with different categories is missing, but most likely it's implied. I've included a link to the manual of my amp where I obtained the attached screen capture from also.
...
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/manuals/248-4070-pyle-pro-pta3000-manual.pdf (page 11)
each column in the manual is for a different amplifier.

there is no indication which column applies to your amplifier.

the website indicates "total power" as 3000 watts, so using a universal translator, it is probably a 150 watt per channel amp, maybe.

https://www.pyleaudio.com/sku/PTA3000

a guy on amazon seems to suggest that it is a 150-200 watt amp or perhaps a little more.



https://www.amazon.com/Pyle-PTA3000-3000W-Professional-Amplifier/dp/B0010KAJLY
 
#22 ·
I don't know if it means anything but it's only 2 channels and they are currently bridged?

Do you still think it's only 150w per channel out of a theoretical 1500w per channel?
in bridged mode, power is typically about 4x into 4 ohms what the stereo power is into 8 ohms, so probably somewhere around 600-800 watts, maybe a little more, it is a pyle, so who knows unless one gets measured.
 
#24 ·
So this did it, even at a 1/4 power from the amp knob and a volume level of 50 I am bottoming out the sub 🙂 so thank you everyone for replying and helping me learn.

Can we talk speakers now? What do you all think of 2 of these?

https://www.amazon.com/Q-POWER-QPF1...es-20&linkId=3c3a716762e3c18016c71bf9acd18778

My amp is rated at 1,500 watts x 2 @ 2 ohms, so I could run 2 of those in parallel and hopefully it would sound good (it doesn't need to be audiophile good)
 

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#27 ·
From the speaker you linked to

Sealed Volume 1.762 ft.³
Sealed F3 73.72 Hz
Vented Volume 5.592 ft.³
Vented F3 37.12 Hz

Does the vented volume have a lower hz value because it becomes a helmholtz chamber that mutes some of the higher frequencies in a subwoofers range?
 
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