Can I build ported dual subs to match my passive Cap2400 for <$2k - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 26 Old 09-18-2019, 02:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Can I build ported dual subs to match my passive Cap2400 for <$2k

With the following guidelines:

- Must be flat packs (Mini or Full Monty)
- Minimum 18 inch
- Be able to power both with one EP4000/Mic 2200 combo
- Again, the total cost of everything, <$2k
- Not looking for crazy output. Solid extension to 17(ish) hz.
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post #2 of 26 Old 09-18-2019, 03:00 PM
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2 Full Marty flatpacks from GSG
2 UM18s on sale at PE

Should run you $1300 or less
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post #3 of 26 Old 09-18-2019, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
2 Full Marty flatpacks from GSG

2 UM18s on sale at PE



Should run you $1300 or less


^this not really much else needed if that what you posted is your goals.


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post #4 of 26 Old 09-19-2019, 08:50 AM
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the woofers that JTR uses are better than UM-18s, but for the price you want the ~$1300 combo from GSG audio will be your best bet
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post #5 of 26 Old 09-19-2019, 09:19 AM
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If you add 6 dB to the Um18 DB numbers it beats the Cap S2 in output in almost all areas. Not sure how much better you mean.

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post #6 of 26 Old 09-19-2019, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
2 Full Marty flatpacks from GSG
2 UM18s on sale at PE

Should run you $1300 or less

Especially with a pair of UM18's for about $515 right now on PE. Combined with the pair of Full Marty's at $417, even after shipping it would be a very viable option under $1300. Find someone local to split an order with and buy a four pack of Full Marty's, then it's only $278 for a pair (Basically like buy 1, get 1).

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post #7 of 26 Old 09-19-2019, 11:21 AM
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I can wholeheartedly endorse GSG, great product, great service, great people, and their products are designed by a freakin audio genius. So, how good can you do for $2K? If you're willing to put in just a little time and effort, pretty darn good.

UM18-22 when on sale can be had for $234 each (sale price minus a 10% off coupon). This price comes around every six weeks or so. You can get four of them for $936.

GSG Mini Marty's can be had for $516 for four, which is $129 each. Shipping to SoFla will be additional, but GSG shipping prices just went down significantly due to their shipping volume.

Sale price for NX6000d is frequently $421 (I just bought another one a few weeks ago when they hit this price).

So, with a little patience and effort on your part you could get FOUR mini marty's, FOUR UM18-22's (AND an NX6000d to go with your existing amp to power the four beasts) for $1873 plus flat-pack shipping. Pretty sure four of those will outperform just about any single sub you could think of.

Don't want four? Two UM18-22's would be $464, and you could still get the $129 flat packs - just buy the four and sell the other two here or on GSG's classified. Again, if you're willing to put in just a little bit of patience and effort you can get exactly what your looking for well less than your price point.

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post #8 of 26 Old 09-19-2019, 11:39 AM
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Can I build ported dual subs to match my passive Cap2400 for &lt;$2k

The Cap quickly gets compressed down low so with two Marty’s you’ll outperform the low end.


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post #9 of 26 Old 09-19-2019, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler Dobson View Post
the woofers that JTR uses are better than UM-18s, but for the price you want the ~$1300 combo from GSG audio will be your best bet
quoting myself here because I had forgotten about the devastators, which you could get 2 flatpacks of and 2 LaVoce 21" woofers for under your 2k budget!

also the 4 set of martys/UM-18s at sale price would be killer too if you so choose
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post #10 of 26 Old 09-20-2019, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler Dobson View Post
quoting myself here because I had forgotten about the devastators, which you could get 2 flatpacks of and 2 LaVoce 21" woofers for under your 2k budget!

also the 4 set of martys/UM-18s at sale price would be killer too if you so choose
Building those boxes is not rocket science, you could build them yourself from a cut list and save a good amount of cash. You could even have HD do most of the cuts for you. I had them cut the first 3 subs I made and they didnt even charge me the $1 per cut. I did cut my own holes but that was about it to be honest. But yes two devastators would easily out perform dual 18s. They are on par if not better than the 4000 UFL jrt has at least on paper. I heard a single 4000ufl its no slouch.

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post #11 of 26 Old 09-20-2019, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by lemonslush View Post
Building those boxes is not rocket science, you could build them yourself from a cut list and save a good amount of cash. You could even have HD do most of the cuts for you. I had them cut the first 3 subs I made and they didnt even charge me the $1 per cut. I did cut my own holes but that was about it to be honest. But yes two devastators would easily out perform dual 18s. They are on par if not better than the 4000 UFL jrt has at least on paper. I heard a single 4000ufl its no slouch.
Not down low.

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post #12 of 26 Old 09-20-2019, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
Not down low.
I dunno honestly I though the 21's had plenty of extension past 20hz. Personally I dont see much value in anything past 18 hz. I ran a few models on the 21's in just ported boxes and the easily beat hst18s past 20. They did a odd bump around 10-12hz. For the money its a ton of SPL. That 4000 is no joke though. For its form factor its not overpriced at all.

It makes me wonder how the new PSA Ipal subs will compare.

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post #13 of 26 Old 09-20-2019, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by lemonslush View Post
I dunno honestly I though the 21's had plenty of extension past 20hz. Personally I dont see much value in anything past 18 hz. I ran a few models on the 21's in just ported boxes and the easily beat hst18s past 20. They did a odd bump around 10-12hz. For the money its a ton of SPL. That 4000 is no joke though. For its form factor its not overpriced at all.

It makes me wonder how the new PSA Ipal subs will compare.
Which 21? Any ported sub tuned into the high teens to 20hz will give the big advantage to these 21s anyways. The 4000ULF makes people like extension down low which does not rely on room gain to get it.
Why it was designed. There have been 20hz and up awesome subs for decades. Hell, I had pro 18 inch folded horn subs over 10 years ago that could belt out 20hz and above over 125 dB all day, it it sound awesome, they were cheap too, but massive(deep). They actaully played the pulse server room scene at 120 dB in my room which was a 17-19hz tone.

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post #14 of 26 Old 09-20-2019, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by lemonslush View Post
Building those boxes is not rocket science, you could build them yourself from a cut list and save a good amount of cash. You could even have HD do most of the cuts for you. I had them cut the first 3 subs I made and they didnt even charge me the $1 per cut. I did cut my own holes but that was about it to be honest. But yes two devastators would easily out perform dual 18s. They are on par if not better than the 4000 UFL jrt has at least on paper. I heard a single 4000ufl its no slouch.


I wouldnt go to home depot for any cuts personally, not again. You might have had a decent experience but when I was outfitting box stands for my 1099's, the guy working at HD couldnt get me an even cut to save my life. The fence on the table saw was damaged and they couldnt be bothered to fix it apparently. HD and lowes are very hit or miss when it comes to good, even cuts for sub boxes. Considering my time, and lack of equipment, I would go to GSG or a professional cabinet maker to get any big boxes made


The 4000ULF will kill pretty much anything else comparable in $$$$ or form factor below 17Hz, its a tremendous value for that range
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post #15 of 26 Old 09-20-2019, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyler Dobson View Post
The 4000ULF will kill pretty much anything else comparable in $$$$ or form factor below 17Hz, its a tremendous value for that range
Maybe in form factor but def not in $$$$. It can be beaten easily <17Hz for less money, it just takes more total volume to do so.
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post #16 of 26 Old 09-21-2019, 06:26 AM - Thread Starter
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I think 4 subs is overkill for my room (said no one ever). So when I do this, I am planning on going with 2 mini marty's. I have 2 questions.


1. Will my EP4000 be enough to push them? I have never listened to my Cap2400 at reference level and probably won't with whatever I build.


2. Are the UM18-22 the best for the mini marty? I dont want to break the bank (hence the DIY route), but if there is a better 18 inch out there that rivals the awesomeness of me JTR woofer, I'd consider it.



Thanks!
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post #17 of 26 Old 09-21-2019, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by ratm View Post
I think 4 subs is overkill for my room (said no one ever). So when I do this, I am planning on going with 2 mini marty's. I have 2 questions.


1. Will my EP4000 be enough to push them? I have never listened to my Cap2400 at reference level and probably won't with whatever I build.


2. Are the UM18-22 the best for the mini marty? I dont want to break the bank (hence the DIY route), but if there is a better 18 inch out there that rivals the awesomeness of me JTR woofer, I'd consider it.
Your EP4000 won't push them to their absolute limits, but it's a solid match and I think you'll be satisfied with it.

While the UM18 isn't necessarily the absolute best driver, it's a great fit and there's not a whole lot to be gained IMO putting a beefier driver in a Mini Marty. Sticking with the UM18 and stepping up to a Full Marty will give you more while only costing you some probably negligible vertical space and a bit more wood.

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post #18 of 26 Old 09-21-2019, 06:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
Your EP4000 won't push them to their absolute limits, but it's a solid match and I think you'll be satisfied with it.

While the UM18 isn't necessarily the absolute best driver, it's a great fit and there's not a whole lot to be gained IMO putting a beefier driver in a Mini Marty. Sticking with the UM18 and stepping up to a Full Marty will give you more while only costing you some probably negligible vertical space and a bit more wood.

Fantastic about the EP4000. When you say the full marty will give me more, are you talking about output?
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post #19 of 26 Old 09-21-2019, 06:50 AM
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Fantastic about the EP4000. When you say the full marty will give me more, are you talking about output?
Yes, output and/or extension because it supports a lower tune.

Not a lot more, if you want a lot more, your best bet is to go against your better judgement and build 4 subs

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Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Custom Tapered Ported Volt-6 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4

Last edited by aron7awol; 09-21-2019 at 06:53 AM.
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post #20 of 26 Old 09-23-2019, 03:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry for the noob-ish question, but looking at the dimensions of my JTR, it's closer in size to the marty cube than the mini marty. I honestly don't want to go much bigger than the size of the JTR box. Would dual cubes equal output of my one JTR?
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post #21 of 26 Old 09-23-2019, 06:15 AM
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I'd say the 2400 is in between the MartyCube and the MiniMarty, and the 2400ULF is almost identical to the MiniMarty in size.

You can certainly do a pair of cubes, just realize you're leaving quite a bit on the table in doing so. The difference between the two is almost like having twice as many subs down low.

Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips
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Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4
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post #22 of 26 Old 10-02-2019, 02:46 PM
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Maybe in form factor but def not in $$$$. It can be beaten easily <17Hz for less money, it just takes more total volume to do so.
oops...totally right, thanks for the correction. I meant to say $$$$ and* form factor(considering the warranty, reliability, and resale value all add to the value)
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post #23 of 26 Old 10-03-2019, 06:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Another idea:

Dual 21" marty cubes powered by my EP4000. Thoughts on this compared to dual JTR 2400's?
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post #24 of 26 Old 10-03-2019, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratm View Post
Another idea:

Dual 21" marty cubes powered by my EP4000. Thoughts on this compared to dual JTR 2400's?
Which 21?

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post #25 of 26 Old 10-03-2019, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
Which 21?
Considering these: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-a...m-qty-2-a.html

or even this one in a single full marty: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-a...b-qty-1-a.html
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post #26 of 26 Old 10-03-2019, 08:12 AM
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When you say beat the Cap2400 do you mean low end or upper end? Any of the 21s will beat the 2400 above 50hz but all but the Ipal and eminence 21 will lose under 50hz. So I guess it depends on what you want. If you want a driver that beats the 2400 then you want the Eminence 21 or Ipal 21. The LaVoce will have a little less, not much, lower end but with more midbass.

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