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post #361 of 1450 Old 01-31-2020, 11:44 AM - Thread Starter
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I think the sim is running lossy inductance in the model and excursion is a little high in the upper 20s. @jujuman200 loves his LFE, we know it works well. I did not finish up the shallow one yet, cut list another round of sanity checks, but it should be close to this. If you want the deep tune, the LFE would most likely be better for that. It is due for a HCR revision....
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post #362 of 1450 Old 01-31-2020, 12:04 PM
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For placement behind AT screen I´d just turn it upside down and turn 90 degrees so the port looks over the LCR speakers, so no need to be shallow. Or did I miss something?
Would it impact output you think?
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post #363 of 1450 Old 01-31-2020, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan3 View Post
For placement behind AT screen I´d just turn it upside down and turn 90 degrees so the port looks over the LCR speakers, so no need to be shallow. Or did I miss something?
Would it impact output you think?

My Minis sound crappy in my space up against the wall. 12 inches of breathing room lets them reach their potential. You can move the mouths in any direction you want. Obstructions in front of the mouth can effect the response. I am not an expert in room design, this is just my experience with my current subs one of these YMMV situations. Bass is very non-directional in nature vs any other frequency range.
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post #364 of 1450 Old 01-31-2020, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
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[snip]... If you want the deep tune, the LFE would most likely be better for that.
@Red Five
Did you get a chance to listen to the music I posted on page 12? I would like your thoughts on how your system handles them.


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post #365 of 1450 Old 01-31-2020, 01:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jujuman200 View Post
@Red Five
Did you get a chance to listen to the music I posted on page 12? I would like your thoughts on how your system handles them.


Juju

I am suspecting my Nuke DSP is not handling the way I want, I have to do some more testing. The HS12 might be creating artifacts and not pushing my left corner down. I might order the Dayton DSP tomorrow, they cannot answer my question regarding setting filters below 20Hz, but digging around the web, I found algorithm screen shots and noticed a 5 Hz filter. I listened to the second track for a few seconds Bass I Love you is not hitting hard like it use on the bottom note, this is why I am suspecting the amps DSP. Also some bass soundtracks sound strangely distorted.

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post #366 of 1450 Old 01-31-2020, 01:30 PM - Thread Starter
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I updated the OP, a BMD name changed, the Mini 18" assembly guide is on the first page and the HR tutorial was added
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post #367 of 1450 Old 01-31-2020, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
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[SNIP].... Also some bass soundtracks sound strangely distorted.
Well that's no bueno.... always something..... good luck tracking down the issue..


Juju
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post #368 of 1450 Old 01-31-2020, 01:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jujuman200 View Post
Well that's no bueno.... always something..... good luck tracking down the issue..


Juju

One of the local guys had an issue that sounded like it was something wrong with either cabinet or the HO in the cabinet, it would only happen at 20Hz. Turns out it was an LS filter on the Mini DSP creating an artifact. I think that is what I am hearing or I have to rip the boxes open again..... All I want is a BW 16Hz 4th order HPF.

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The BMD Omega will take 7 sheets of plywood, 5 tubes of PL, 400-500 screws (if you're a screwer) a few 2x4s and just under a half gallon of DuraTex. Looks like I'm going to have to drum up some business to fund this experiment.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarponater View Post
The BMD Omega will take 7 sheets of plywood, 5 tubes of PL, 400-500 screws (if you're a screwer) a few 2x4s and just under a half gallon of DuraTex. Looks like I'm going to have to drum up some business to fund this experiment.

You must put on duratex a whole bunch lighter than I do. I’d use at least a gallon.

Otherwise sounds like a reasonable build, lol.

Chris
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post #371 of 1450 Old 01-31-2020, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarponater View Post
The BMD Omega will take 7 sheets of plywood, 5 tubes of PL, 400-500 screws (if you're a screwer) a few 2x4s and just under a half gallon of DuraTex. Looks like I'm going to have to drum up some business to fund this experiment.
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You must put on duratex a whole bunch lighter than I do. I’d use at least a gallon.

Otherwise sounds like a reasonable build, lol.

Chris
Yep, that's reasonable in this neck of the woods.
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post #372 of 1450 Old 01-31-2020, 07:24 PM
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You must put on duratex a whole bunch lighter than I do. I’d use at least a gallon.

Otherwise sounds like a reasonable build, lol.

Chris
Lol, painting is kinda my specialty. I was the production painter at an automotive paint shop for 22 years. I painted those four ported HS24 cabinets with just over a gallon of DuraTex. I'm going to take some measurements in my theater tomorrow. If I can find a place to fit two of these cabinets and not mess up the theme of the room, I'll move forward. There's also a chance I can fit one in the living room. Can the cabinet be laid on it's side? If oi, maybe I can hide it behind the couch in the living room as a table.
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post #373 of 1450 Old 01-31-2020, 07:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Lol, painting is kinda my specialty. I was the production painter at an automotive paint shop for 22 years. I painted those four ported HS24 cabinets with just over a gallon of DuraTex. I'm going to take some measurements in my theater tomorrow. If I can find a place to fit two of these cabinets and not mess up the theme of the room, I'll move forward. There's also a chance I can fit one in the living room. Can the cabinet be laid on it's side? If oi, maybe I can hide it behind the couch in the living room as a table.
On the side is not a problem
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post #374 of 1450 Old 01-31-2020, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
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Lol, painting is kinda my specialty. I was the production painter at an automotive paint shop for 22 years. I painted those four ported HS24 cabinets with just over a gallon of DuraTex. I'm going to take some measurements in my theater tomorrow. If I can find a place to fit two of these cabinets and not mess up the theme of the room, I'll move forward. There's also a chance I can fit one in the living room. Can the cabinet be laid on it's side? If oi, maybe I can hide it behind the couch in the living room as a table.


Wow, cost-savings there. I would have to be stingy to do those 4 cabs with a 5gal bucket. I thought the point of duratex was to put it in thick to resist impact and abrasions?
I bet your finish looks much nicer though.

Chris
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post #375 of 1450 Old 02-01-2020, 12:10 AM
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Regarding the JBL’s, i guess using 4 in one box in a 2x2 mounting would not be doable as it would make the lenghts of both the port and horn "incompatible" ?

If so, either a single driver or possible a dual driver(side by side). More like a mini-micro Dev, LOL.
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A multi driver Devastator is something you would have to PM me about, I am not too interested in attempting to design something like that at the moment.
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My wife saw the JBL and I mentioned I could probably take 4 of these and have them stick with 18". I got the "Why did you not do that to begin?" I did not think of sticking four of them in a horn then and was told this is not happening soon. I am cool with that, I need something to replace the towers so I have space for more subs anyways.

I guess you came around, huh?

I did some more max spl comparison. This was with different chart limits, so it was a nightmare to align, LOL, but you get the picture.

Pretty impressive that the 9 JBL can hang with the 3 UM18, with more up top!! All 9 JBL’s are cheaper than 1 UM18"!!!!



Vs the Mini Dev HCR with San184. Not sure if this was max spl on the San?



And vs Mini Dev with my Si18.




For the future could you "standardize" the chart limits to 95dB-145dB and 1hz-2k hz?
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post #376 of 1450 Old 02-01-2020, 01:06 AM
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Man 2 of the omegas in your size room would be ridiculous. Please proceed or not your results might push me to end up building them for the basement at the moment I'm leaning towards multiples of the quad 12 devastors because the setup is mainly for music but keep getting pulled back in to the omega. I'll definitely be following that build

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post #377 of 1450 Old 02-01-2020, 02:52 AM
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Back to the 21" Devastators, I punched the port up .75" and took an inch off recalculated displacement and we get this. Tune is just under 16hz, power input is 1000 watts, velocity sits right around 24m/s. NSW6021-6.


Is this a updated Dev V1 then?

If so, vs quad12 Dev, which is actually a bit smaller in size:

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post #378 of 1450 Old 02-01-2020, 04:40 AM
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Wow, cost-savings there. I would have to be stingy to do those 4 cabs with a 5gal bucket. I thought the point of duratex was to put it in thick to resist impact and abrasions?
I bet your finish looks much nicer though.

Chris
Duratex was designed for protection of road gear for sure. However, we use it for cosmetic finishing on household cabinets no different than lacquer or oils. I think most people use it because it does such a good job hiding imperfections and not soaking into MDF end grain.

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post #379 of 1450 Old 02-01-2020, 05:36 AM - Thread Starter
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I guess you came around, huh?



I did some more max spl comparison. This was with different chart limits, so it was a nightmare to align, LOL, but you get the picture.



Pretty impressive that the 9 JBL can hang with the 3 UM18, with more up top!! All 9 JBL’s are cheaper than 1 UM18"!!!!







Vs the Mini Dev HCR with San184. Not sure if this was max spl on the San?







And vs Mini Dev with my Si18.









For the future could you "standardize" the chart limits to 95dB-145dB and 1hz-2k hz?
HR moves the SPL range for amplitude as it sees fit lol. It defaults to 10-20khz, the low tune stuff I usually move it down. Chris has wood, so we will see know if the model is accurate!

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post #380 of 1450 Old 02-01-2020, 05:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Is this a updated Dev V1 then?



If so, vs quad12 Dev, which is actually a bit smaller in size:



That one is an updated 16Hz tuned Devastator running 1000 watts with a HPF on. Max SPL it would show the 2Hz lower tune extension advantage more.

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post #381 of 1450 Old 02-01-2020, 06:02 AM
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HR moves the SPL range for amplitude as it sees fit lol. It defaults to 10-20khz, the low tune stuff I usually move it down. Chris has wood, so we will see know if the model is accurate!
Bummer

Yeah, it will be exciting for sure to see if it models correct


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That one is an updated 16Hz tuned Devastator running 1000 watts with a HPF on. Max SPL it would show the 2Hz lower tune extension advantage more.
Ok.

But you can block a port on the Quad Dev too?

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post #382 of 1450 Old 02-01-2020, 06:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Bummer



Yeah, it will be exciting for sure to see if it models correct









Ok.



But you can block a port on the Quad Dev too?
Yes, you can block one on there, tune would probably drop into the 15Hz range. 1200 watts is modeling around 23m/s, so there is some headroom there.
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post #383 of 1450 Old 02-01-2020, 06:52 AM
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Duratex was designed for protection of road gear for sure. However, we use it for cosmetic finishing on household cabinets no different than lacquer or oils. I think most people use it because it does such a good job hiding imperfections and not soaking into MDF end grain.


Maybe I ‘m just clumsy, but I like my boxes to be resilient. My HT is inconveniently the main route into my house too.

Honestly, I haven’t been impressed by the imperfection-hiding. It shows seams super easily, even with my heavy application. I’ve moved to priming/sanding till imperfections are gone before spraying duratex.

Chris
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post #384 of 1450 Old 02-01-2020, 06:56 AM
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HR moves the SPL range for amplitude as it sees fit lol. It defaults to 10-20khz, the low tune stuff I usually move it down. Chris has wood, so we will see know if the model is accurate!

Phrasing!

As soon as I finish my second coffee, I’ll go start chopping panels for the quad and a BMD Alpha.

I don’t have drivers for the quad though. My BOSS drivers are soldered on, and I don’t want to dismantle it/break them.

Chris
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post #385 of 1450 Old 02-01-2020, 07:25 AM
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^^ HAH, i would give you my speakers easily if i was nearby, but sending them from Norway would not be logical, LOL.

PLEASE ANYBODY??

@LastButNotLeast ?
@Chris Popovich ?

EDIT: never mind, it is sorted, LOL!!
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Dual AVR 13.1.8 SWAtmos - Atmos 13.1.8/DTS X 9.1.8/Auro 3D 13.1 - Denon AVCX8500H+AVRX7200WA - Klipsch+KEF - 4xSI18" - 12x12" w/6xSLAPS M12 VNF - 4x12"HB+2x18"CLHB - 6x Crowsons - 4xBK-LFE - 2x12"BB - 2x "4DX" fans- 6xNU6K - Minidsp 10x10HD - Oppo UDP203 - XB1X - ATV4K - JVC RS600 Dreamscreen V2 120"- Samsung QE82Q60.
>>>>Nalleh’s HT<<<<

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post #386 of 1450 Old 02-03-2020, 08:03 AM - Thread Starter
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This is the next thing in the development pipeline. Sub is a DS chugging along at a 1000 watts, tune 17Hz with a velocity right around 24m/s with a 17Hz 2nd order HPF active.


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This is the way...
Stormbreaker | WI HT Meet Thread | The Devastator Index | Dual Mini Devastator Build
7.2.4 | A3070 | XLS 1502 | 3000DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen | 2x Mini Devastators
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post #387 of 1450 Old 02-03-2020, 11:32 AM
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For anyone keeping score.... ONLY 3 of these DEVS beat the LFE on the left side of the charts.....The ALPHA, BMD MAX & OMEGA... The 16Hz version [add 13" to the port board] is a wicked thing to behold.....

Will I be the ONLY one with an LFE? That form factor works best for me in my space.... plus I really don't want a sub that looks like a refrigerator in my LR.... lol

Come on guys.... show that LFE some love..... LOL

Juju
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Sub List: 1- Red Five Mini V1 Devastator 18" w/PA460, 1- Red Five Devastator LFE 21", 1- Red Five Devastator 21" Finalizer V2 DF , 1- BOSS platform [The Hideaway Theater], 2- 18" "Full Marty" tuned to 17Hz w/RSS460HO
Wish List: Anthology http://www.speakerdesignworks.com/Anthology_1.html

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post #388 of 1450 Old 02-04-2020, 07:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Devastator 21" Version 4 HCR 24" Deep

This Devastator versions is designed for areas where depth is a concern. Volume is 20cuft external, only slightly smaller than the V1. Tune is lower on this box, 17Hz is the calculated tune for this Devastator. Charts are simulated with the 21DS115 running 1000 watts and 2000 watts, check the attachments, HPF is a 17Hz 2nd order BW. There is also a slight bracing change just to make assembly easier. Assembly is very close to the Mini Devastator.














V1 vs the V4 1w1m




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This is the way...
Stormbreaker | WI HT Meet Thread | The Devastator Index | Dual Mini Devastator Build
7.2.4 | A3070 | XLS 1502 | 3000DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen | 2x Mini Devastators

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post #389 of 1450 Old 02-04-2020, 08:34 AM
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[QUOTE=Red Five;59197914]This Devastator versions is designed for areas where depth is a concern. Volume is 20cuft external, only slightly smaller than the V1. Tune is lower on this box, 17Hz is the calculated tune for this Devastator. Charts are simulated with the 21DS115 running 1000 watts and 2000 watts, check the attachments, HPF is a 17Hz 2nd order BW. There is also a slight bracing change just to make assembly easier. Assembly is very close to the Mini Devastator.


I love it. Might build 2 of these for behind my screen.
I may have missed it in this thread, but will there be a cut list in the future and/or more details? I still have time while my house is being constructed, but at one time I won´t know how to start without a cut list or file I can work on.
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post #390 of 1450 Old 02-04-2020, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan3 View Post
I may have missed it in this thread, but will there be a cut list in the future and/or more details? I still have time while my house is being constructed, but at one time I won´t know how to start without a cut list or file I can work on.
Cutlist is at the very bottom

Automation: Alexa- Harmony Hub- Wemo Dimmer Switch- Wemo Smart Plug BatCave: SY Triple Black
Video Image: JVC RS500- Sony UBP-800X- Chromecast- 125" wide 16x9 white over black spandex screen
Audio: 5.2.4 Marantz SR7011- (LCR) QSC 2180 - (Surrounds) (4) BIC FH6-LCR- (Atmos) (4) Dayton Audio B652 6-1/2-Inch- (Subs)2 23ishcuft ported HS24s 14-15Hz tune - 2 Devastator Minis B&C21ds115 - 4 PA460 in ported cabs 40Hz tune- FP20000Q- 2 Sanway FP10000Q- Crown XLS1500- . To be continued...
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