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post #781 of 880 Old 03-24-2020, 10:07 AM
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Wow thanks gang, that was quick and complete response! I think I will employ a two way LFE Sub stage here. For live music content I can run the Devs only full range with a 25Hz HP brick wall. For movie content, that’s where I will employ the two way profile. I’ll need to clearly sweep both and see where the best cover point will be and then extract the most efficient spectrum from each cabinet. I’m confident I’ll be able to get the xover regime flat. I’m currently running very strong LCR with robust midbass to 40hz. They are a quad three way DIYSG Custom Mag12/BMS Coaxial Horn scratch built design and I am currently using them in the LFE mix via the 7705 settings.

I have 9 18” SP1804 Buyout 18s in storage (picked them up when they were 75$ each at PE) They are equivalent and a little more efficient than a PA460 in the MB arena, so originally I was gong to put 6 of them in GSG 18” MB ported box’s, but building Devs and investing in 21s looks more attractive. I’ve had JTR Growlers years ago, and I absolutely love Horn sources midbass, it has just a better and more impactful tone than ported.

Currently running two 24s and multiple sealed SI18s, two more HS24s in the finish and driver loading stages.

Anyone have the acoustic output curves for the GSG Dev with various drivers? I’ll probably go LaVoce in them.

Thanks gang. Please be safe. Luckily, sheltering in the HT is kind of refreshing for those of us who have invested so much time and resources and never have time to enjoy it, I am.


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post #782 of 880 Old 03-24-2020, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a77cj7 View Post
Mini dev has 20hz port tune.

Sealed:
10hz 8th order BW HPF
120hz 8th order BW LPF
Mini dev:
20hz 2nd order BW HPF

(Current setup)
11hz ported:
11hz 8th order BW HPF
80hz 6th order BW LPF
Mini Dev:
20hz 2nd order BW HPF

16hz ported:
15hz 4th order BW HPF
80hz 4th order BW LPF
Mini Dev:
20hz 2nd order BW HPF

20hz ported:
18hz 2nd order BW HPF
Mini Dev:
20hz 2nd order BW HPF
(Was a touch of cancellation on the top end of this one. I didn’t like the low end result in my room, so never refined further)

You can find rew graphs on all of these in my build threads.

As you can see, the more separation in port tune, the more interesting the integration.

I have not found a successful way to model phase interaction, this was all done with trial and error, lots of changes and measurements.

Next I will be integrating an Alpha dev (should be easy) and a Submax v3
(Could be interesting) into the 11hz version I run now.

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That's a lot of time and effort you put in. My ported and devs are within a 1-2Hz so I didn't have much to worry about. Good thing you have a lot of patience

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post #783 of 880 Old 03-24-2020, 10:13 AM
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The Devastator Index

Quote:
Originally Posted by FOHTech View Post
Wow thanks gang, that was quick and complete response!

Anyone have the acoustic output curves for the GSG Dev with various drivers? I’ll probably go LaVoce in them.

Thanks gang. Please be safe. Luckily, sheltering in the HT is kind of refreshing for those of us who have invested so much time and resources and never have time to enjoy it, I am.


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I will go fire up my laptop and post the v1 lavoce response. Apparently don’t have it on my phone. 21ds is identical, nsw is a bit heavier low end, not worth the cost for your use. Any other drivers?

EDIT: Lavoce driver on 1000w
20hz, 2nd order HPF
12mm excursion
22m/s port velocity.



Not sure how much power you want to send, I can model higher.

Gsg dev should be very close or identical to the v1. Dimensions are very close.

Chris

Last edited by a77cj7; 03-24-2020 at 10:24 AM.
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post #784 of 880 Old 03-24-2020, 12:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Two new build threads have been added to the OP of the Index!

This is the way...
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post #785 of 880 Old 03-24-2020, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a77cj7 View Post
I will go fire up my laptop and post the v1 lavoce response. Apparently don’t have it on my phone. 21ds is identical, nsw is a bit heavier low end, not worth the cost for your use. Any other drivers?

EDIT: Lavoce driver on 1000w
20hz, 2nd order HPF
12mm excursion
22m/s port velocity.



Not sure how much power you want to send, I can model higher.

Gsg dev should be very close or identical to the v1. Dimensions are very close.

Chris
Thanks Chris! The LaVoce will be perfect. Each will have a couple thousand honest watts available. FP22k clone, 1 per channel but highly attenuated down from clipping for the amps longevity. Ill just add 3db or so to the curve for a doubling of power, although I dont intend to push it that hard. Its amazing how much of a peak from 50hz to 90 hz there is. Ive got mad cabin gain at 40hz so that should work out. I think a pair should hit the 140db mark around 80hz at 1kw per cab, agree?

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post #786 of 880 Old 03-24-2020, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a77cj7 View Post
I will go fire up my laptop and post the v1 lavoce response. Apparently don’t have it on my phone. 21ds is identical, nsw is a bit heavier low end, not worth the cost for your use. Any other drivers?

EDIT: Lavoce driver on 1000w
20hz, 2nd order HPF
12mm excursion
22m/s port velocity.



Not sure how much power you want to send, I can model higher.

Gsg dev should be very close or identical to the v1. Dimensions are very close.

Chris
Which LaVoce driver and enclosure is this ? I must have missed the details although I read all the posts again.
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post #787 of 880 Old 03-24-2020, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tk123 View Post
Which LaVoce driver and enclosure is this ? I must have missed the details although I read all the posts again.

The original v1 dev, which GSG sells a flatpack for.

Driver is the LaVoce San214.50, the best budget 21” driver currently. Probably the best performing 21” driver in most Devastator variants as well, the NSW causes port velocity to go very high.

I believe the SAN looks pretty good in a v1 up to 2000w, port velocity gets higher of course.

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post #788 of 880 Old 03-24-2020, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a77cj7 View Post
The original v1 dev, which GSG sells a flatpack for.

Driver is the LaVoce San214.50, the best budget 21” driver currently. Probably the best performing 21” driver in most Devastator variants as well, the NSW causes port velocity to go very high.

I believe the SAN looks pretty good in a v1 up to 2000w, port velocity gets higher of course.

Chris


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Thanks.
What differences are there between the LaVoce series drivers in general ( San, Saf, Waf, etc ) ? Thanks again. Just trying to determine what makes one driver better than another for a certain enclosure.
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post #789 of 880 Old 03-24-2020, 03:53 PM
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The Devastator Index

Quote:
Originally Posted by tk123 View Post
Thanks.
What differences are there between the LaVoce series drivers in general ( San, Saf, Waf, etc ) ? Thanks again. Just trying to determine what makes one driver better than another for a certain enclosure.

Model them and find out. It is very hard to guess response from the specs, thats why everyone models.

The san214 is the only 21” driver they make.

If you’re looking for an 18”, the SAF184.03 generally models the best for Devastators and low tuned ported boxes.

First letter: S = subwoofer, W = woofer.
Third letter: F = ferrite motor, N = neodymium motor
None of that tells you much about performance.

Chris


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Last edited by a77cj7; 03-24-2020 at 04:09 PM.
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post #790 of 880 Old 03-24-2020, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a77cj7 View Post
Model them and find out. It is very hard to guess response from the specs, thats why everyone models.

The san214 is the only 21” driver they make.

If you’re looking for an 18”, the SAF184.03 generally models the best for Devastators and low tuned ported boxes.

First letter: S = subwoofer, W = woofer.
Third letter: F = ferrite motor, N = neodymium motor
None of that tells you much about performance.

Chris


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Ok. I figured out the F & N part, but didn't know the S & W parts.
Thanks for the tip on the SAF. I'll check that one out.

Todd
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post #791 of 880 Old 03-25-2020, 12:05 PM
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I'm currently working on a few projects for someone so the Devastator MBM is in a holding pattern. I'm not sure what your time frame is on this, but I'm hoping to get started in April. I'll start a build thread once I get started.

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post #792 of 880 Old 03-25-2020, 01:02 PM - Thread Starter
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I started experimenting on a shallow version of the BMD with a 19Hz tune. The sim is based on 2500 watts going into an NSW, port velocity sits around 34m/s, that is pushing it to the max I want to see in a design. The box shaves off 6 inches on the Alpha depth. It could make it more accessible to some. Output is not at all shabby...



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post #793 of 880 Old 03-25-2020, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
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I started experimenting on a shallow version of the BMD with a 19Hz tune. The sim is based on 2500 watts going into an NSW, port velocity sits around 34m/s, that is pushing it to the max I want to see in a design. The box shaves off 6 inches on the Alpha depth. It could make it more accessible to some. Output is not at all shabby...



Sir, you are relentless.
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post #794 of 880 Old 03-25-2020, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Sir, you are relentless.
There will not be an excuse for a Devastator not fitting a space that is reasonable.
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^^^Just gave Red his 1000th "Like"
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post #796 of 880 Old 03-25-2020, 03:32 PM
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Heres a teaser pic of my current dev build.



BMD Alpha, with window.

Just finished the glue-up, finishing starts tomorrow.

Chris


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post #797 of 880 Old 03-25-2020, 03:55 PM
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The Devastator Index

Here’s a fun size-comparison:
BMD Alpha Devastator vs Submaximus v3





Output comparison:
Eminence NSW6021 on 2500w.
Alpha is black, v3 is gray.
No HPF




Please excuse the messy shop, I should work on that too.

Chris


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post #798 of 880 Old 03-25-2020, 04:03 PM
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^^^ WOW, that is A LOT less box, for pretty much the same output !!

Build thread on this one ?

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post #799 of 880 Old 03-25-2020, 04:18 PM
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^^^ WOW, that is A LOT less box, for pretty much the same output !!

Build thread on this one ?

Yeah, I’m very curious about the sound signature of both. The v3 models with higher extension, but the Alpha matches it from 70hz down.
V3 is 43 cu ft external, Alpha is 27 cu ft.

Each will get their own build threads once completed. I like to post it up all at once instead of a making a drawn-out thread.

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post #800 of 880 Old 03-25-2020, 04:54 PM
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Can't to see those build threads!

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post #801 of 880 Old 03-25-2020, 05:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a77cj7 View Post
Heres a teaser pic of my current dev build.



BMD Alpha, with window.

Just finished the glue-up, finishing starts tomorrow.

Chris


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The mouths on the vent and QW look ridiculous on this beast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a77cj7 View Post
Yeah, I’m very curious about the sound signature of both. The v3 models with higher extension, but the Alpha matches it from 70hz down.
V3 is 43 cu ft external, Alpha is 27 cu ft.

Each will get their own build threads once completed. I like to post it up all at once instead of a making a drawn-out thread.

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Cant wait to see the results

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post #803 of 880 Old 03-25-2020, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a77cj7 View Post
Yeah, I’m very curious about the sound signature of both.

Me too. I have mini versions of both (F20s and mini Devs, kinda) and I do love the smoothness of the F20s, but the Dev has a more IN YOUR FACE feel. Now if I could just lower the tune to tame some of that on the Dev.

BTW is there a car in that garage? I can’t see anything behind them boxes.
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Me too. I have mini versions of both (F20s and mini Devs, kinda) and I do love the smoothness of the F20s, but the Dev has a more IN YOUR FACE feel. Now if I could just lower the tune to tame some of that on the Dev.

BTW is there a car in that garage? I can’t see anything behind them boxes.

You can lower the tune on the mini devs by plugging a port, but will make the in-your-face part worse. Or do you mean the qw tune?

Lol, these (mostly the v3) look huge in the shop, and that scares me. The quad dev looked reasonable out there, got way bigger in the theater.

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post #805 of 880 Old 03-25-2020, 07:15 PM
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Cant wait to see the results

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Thanks Jeremy,

I got the idea for the angled mouth bracing on the v3 from your build and @Waterboy77 . I adjusted it for even spacing and less recess depth.

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post #806 of 880 Old 03-26-2020, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
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21" bmd shallow hcr

I happy to announce there is another shallow option in the Devastator family! The simulation was conducted with a NSW pushing 2500 watts with an active BW 17Hz 3rd order high pass filter active. This is the limit for the box, velocity sits around 34m/s at that point. The native tune of the enclosure is 19Hz.














SAN214.50 1000 watts






NSW 2500 watts











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post #807 of 880 Old 03-27-2020, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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BMD Ultra Shallow 18"

This is the end of shallow for bigger subs (subs that are 18"+). The chamber depth is 10 inches, a 18TBW100 is 9.5 inches deep, we are cutting things close here! The rear access panel bracing is something to be mindful of, I did not see the size of the motor in the B&C spec sheet, the SAF184.03 lists the motor at 8.66 inches wide, I would image the B&C is close. The simulation is based on 1000 watts with a BW 20Hz 2nd order high pass filter active. The tune estimation is 19Hz. I ran the simulation with the 18TBW100-4. Excursion is looking good at 1000 watts, it might be able to handle another 200 watts or so.




























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This is the way...
Stormbreaker | WI HT Meet Thread | The Devastator Index | Dual Mini Devastator Build
7.2.4 | A3070 | XLS 1502 | 3000DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen | 2x Mini Devastators

Last edited by Red Five; 03-27-2020 at 12:54 PM.
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post #808 of 880 Old 03-27-2020, 01:16 PM
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Wow!
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Automation: Alexa- Harmony Hub- Wemo Dimmer Switch- Wemo Smart Plug BatCave: SY Triple Black
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Audio: 5.2.4 Marantz SR7011- (LCR) QSC 2180 - (Surrounds) (4) BIC FH6-LCR- (Atmos) (4) Dayton Audio B652 6-1/2-Inch- (Subs)2 23ishcuft ported HS24s 14-15Hz tune - 2 Devastator Minis B&C21ds115 - 4 PA460 in ported cabs 40Hz tune- FP20000Q- 2 Sanway FP10000Q- Crown XLS1500- . To be continued...
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post #809 of 880 Old 03-29-2020, 05:50 AM
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Silly question... If one is building upright Devastators, is it best to have the vents next to the floor or higher? I want to build the 15" MBM. If the vents are at the floor, there won't be floor bounce which should decrease midbass suck out. But, if the vents are up they blow right into your face.

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post #810 of 880 Old 03-29-2020, 05:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krholmberg View Post
Silly question... If one is building upright Devastators, is it best to have the vents next to the floor or higher? I want to build the 15" MBM. If the vents are at the floor, there won't be floor bounce which should decrease midbass suck out. But, if the vents are up they blow right into your face.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
Even at 80Hz the wavelength is a little over 14 feet. If you have a measurement mic I would try it both ways.
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Stormbreaker | WI HT Meet Thread | The Devastator Index | Dual Mini Devastator Build
7.2.4 | A3070 | XLS 1502 | 3000DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen | 2x Mini Devastators
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