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post #811 of 1587 Old 03-29-2020, 07:39 PM
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Couple more teaser shots of my windowed Alpha. Ready for paint.





Chris
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post #812 of 1587 Old 03-29-2020, 07:46 PM
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That second pic is messing with my head

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

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post #813 of 1587 Old 03-29-2020, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by krholmberg View Post
That second pic is messing with my head

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Its the new open-baffle Devastator.

Chris
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post #814 of 1587 Old 03-30-2020, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
I happy to announce there is another shallow option in the Devastator family! The simulation was conducted with a NSW pushing 2500 watts with an active BW 17Hz 3rd order high pass filter active. This is the limit for the box, velocity sits around 34m/s at that point. The native tune of the enclosure is 19Hz.
Comparing this shallow version to the V4, the shallow version appears to have greater output from 60Hz down. Outside of the V4 form factor possibly fitting on top of my current ported subs, is there a reason to even build the V4 now? If the height is available, it seems like the shallow BMD would be stronger on the low end. I would be using the B&C 21DS115 if it matters.
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post #815 of 1587 Old 03-30-2020, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi940 View Post
Comparing this shallow version to the V4, the shallow version appears to have greater output from 60Hz down. Outside of the V4 form factor possibly fitting on top of my current ported subs, is there a reason to even build the V4 now? If the height is available, it seems like the shallow BMD would be stronger on the low end. I would be using the B&C 21DS115 if it matters.

The shallow boxes are running 19Hz tunes, that is an advantage at 20Hz since the V4 Mini which is tuned to 17Hz. That 17Hz tune pushes excursion more and drops output a couple db. It depends a lot on what you have for space available to, under my AT screen would not be good for BMDs, but Minis work great.


Edit: here is the 1w1m comparison with the 21 V4 and the BMD shallow 21. Most of the left side boost is the higher tune. The simulation is with the 21DS115.



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Last edited by Red Five; 03-30-2020 at 10:13 AM.
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post #816 of 1587 Old 03-30-2020, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi940 View Post
Comparing this shallow version to the V4, the shallow version appears to have greater output from 60Hz down. Outside of the V4 form factor possibly fitting on top of my current ported subs, is there a reason to even build the V4 now? If the height is available, it seems like the shallow BMD would be stronger on the low end. I would be using the B&C 21DS115 if it matters.

The v4 is more of a full range sub, the BMD is stronger low end, but falls off earlier.

As a single sub solution, the v4 is more rounded.

Chris
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post #817 of 1587 Old 03-30-2020, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
The shallow boxes are running 19Hz tunes, that is an advantage at 20Hz since the V4 Mini which is tuned to 17Hz. That 17Hz tune pushes excursion more and drops output a couple db. It depends a lot on what you have for space available to, under my AT screen would not be good for BMDs, but Minis work great.


Edit: here is the 1w1m comparison with the 21 V4 and the BMD shallow 21. Most of the left side boost is the higher tune. The simulation is with the 21DS115.
Thanks for adding the graph. Makes it much easier than going back an forth between images If I can figure out where I'm gonna put it, I think the BMD would work better for me. Not sure I really have room for either but I'm trying.
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post #818 of 1587 Old 03-30-2020, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi940 View Post
Thanks for adding the graph. Makes it much easier than going back an forth between images If I can figure out where I'm gonna put it, I think the BMD would work better for me. Not sure I really have room for either but I'm trying.

You can do it!

Chris
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post #819 of 1587 Old 03-30-2020, 10:27 AM
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Alpha and v3 painted, will be in the theater and running tomorrow.



Don’t be afraid to post a few pics of current and/or completed builds here. John @Red Five and I love to see them. I’m sure other people do as well.

Chris
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post #820 of 1587 Old 03-30-2020, 10:31 AM
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BEASTLY!!! Nice work, Chris (as usual!). And bonus points for spraying which would indicate you have a good cartridge mask. They are actually far better than what we docs use in hospitals. Now the portable positve air units are nice, but really pricey. I have a box of masks & gloves, but if I went somewhere with high suspicion, I'd use the P100 + organic vapor mask.vv
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post #821 of 1587 Old 03-30-2020, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by MTBDOC View Post
BEASTLY!!! Nice work, Chris (as usual!). And bonus points for spraying which would indicate you have a good cartridge mask. They are actually far better than what we docs use in hospitals. Now the portable positve air units are nice, but really pricey. I have a box of masks & gloves, but if I went somewhere with high suspicion, I'd use the P100 + organic vapor mask.vv

Sadly, no. I decided to buy a good cartridge mask about the time they became unobtanium. I’m just running the standard rubber band masks.

Luckily duratex is a water-based coating with almost no fumes. Very friendly to use.

Chris
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post #822 of 1587 Old 03-30-2020, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
The shallow boxes are running 19Hz tunes, that is an advantage at 20Hz since the V4 Mini which is tuned to 17Hz. That 17Hz tune pushes excursion more and drops output a couple db. It depends a lot on what you have for space available to, under my AT screen would not be good for BMDs, but Minis work great.


Edit: here is the 1w1m comparison with the 21 V4 and the BMD shallow 21. Most of the left side boost is the higher tune. The simulation is with the 21DS115.



I suspect that most of us would struggle to even identify one vs the other if blindly auditioned! It gets back to my previous remarks about numbers chasing.

SO: how goes the baby-growing? I have a close friend whose wife is about to pop, but kid is breech and they don't want to do C-sect... watching to see if she will turn. Hospitals are getting to be less safe, but that mostly will be the ER & ICU. Maternity units are going to be kept WELL CLEAR of Coronaland. Just stay out of ERs and ICUs.

As an aside, all of the crisis about lack of ventilators neglects one chilling fact. Somewhere around 6 of 7 people going on a ventilator for this virus will never come off. And of the 1/7 survivors, some percentage will have permanent lung damage from directly inflammation from the virus, or from ventilator trauma. Take home message: don't get infect! Just be smart, WEAR A MASK (some good DIY stuff out there using HEPA or A/C filter material if you don't have something better), be mindful of EVERYTHING you touch...
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post #823 of 1587 Old 03-30-2020, 10:49 AM
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Sadly, no. I decided to buy a good cartridge mask about the time they became unobtanium. I’m just running the standard rubber band masks.

Luckily duratex is a water-based coating with almost no fumes. Very friendly to use.

Chris
Yeah, I have done Duratex in the house with a brush.

When the Ebola stuff was spooling up a few years ago and I learned what I could, I picked up Tyvex coveralls, plenty of gloves, masks, etc. Including full face double cartridge masks as well as a 'nose-mouth' cartridge mask. A couple of weeks ago picking up stuff at Lowes, I noticed they had a few 'nose-mouth' masks on the shelf! 3m, including P100 cartridges for $40. Resisted the impulse to buy them all, but picked up one which I gave to a female friend last week.

One easy thing to do is to keep a spray bottle in the car with diluted bleach (1c to 1gal H2O) and a few rags. Spray bleach onto the rag, use it at the gas pump. Use it to wipe your door handle 'just in case.' Easy enough. But do use a mask AND keep your distance. This is what many people have done for years and it clearly DOES help.
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post #824 of 1587 Old 03-30-2020, 10:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTBDOC View Post
I suspect that most of us would struggle to even identify one vs the other if blindly auditioned! It gets back to my previous remarks about numbers chasing.

SO: how goes the baby-growing? I have a close friend whose wife is about to pop, but kid is breech and they don't want to do C-sect... watching to see if she will turn. Hospitals are getting to be less safe, but that mostly will be the ER & ICU. Maternity units are going to be kept WELL CLEAR of Coronaland. Just stay out of ERs and ICUs.

As an aside, all of the crisis about lack of ventilators neglects one chilling fact. Somewhere around 6 of 7 people going on a ventilator for this virus will never come off. And of the 1/7 survivors, some percentage will have permanent lung damage from directly inflammation from the virus, or from ventilator trauma. Take home message: don't get infect! Just be smart, WEAR A MASK (some good DIY stuff out there using HEPA or A/C filter material if you don't have something better), be mindful of EVERYTHING you touch...

This baby is also sitting breach right now like her older sister was, we are hoping she turns around which did not happen with #1 . The hospital has strict rules about who gets in and out, OB is one of the few things open right now. No visitors are allowed and they are only allowing one person, which creates an issue since we did hire doula this round, that would count for the person during entirety of her stay. I am hoping that can get worked around.



Otherwise my wife is an RN in long term care, that facility has been on lock-down for at least 3 weeks, probably closer to 4 weeks. No positives in there yet, but they are taking a lot of admits and they do have a medicare wing for post procedures (I would think that wing has slowed down, no more hip procedures...), that sees a lot of turnover normally. We are due towards the end of May, hopefully that is the back end of the curve or it could be in the thick of it....

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post #825 of 1587 Old 03-30-2020, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTBDOC View Post
I suspect that most of us would struggle to even identify one vs the other if blindly auditioned! It gets back to my previous remarks about numbers chasing.
Perhaps. Numbers chasing can lead one down a rabbit hole, however, in this case, we are talking about a 3db increase in efficiency on the low end which would be the same as adding as second driver. 3db would be a noticeable difference. One of my opions (although it is my least favorite) is to take my current ported 21's and put them in a devastator so I am looking to maximize my gains as much as possible.
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post #826 of 1587 Old 03-30-2020, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Here is where stuff gets really hard to discern. @Jedi940

V4 vs the V5





V5 vs the Finalizer





Now for fun this is the V1 vs the V5, remember it is the same size box...


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post #827 of 1587 Old 03-30-2020, 11:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Chris requested this... the 21DS115 was used on all cabinets but the Omega.

Alpha vs Shallow BMD (note the alpha was designed to deal with velocity for increased power handling)




Alpha vs Omega





Alpha vs the Finalizer


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post #828 of 1587 Old 03-30-2020, 02:06 PM
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Not a Devastator, but John wanted me to put the pic up here anyway.

Submax v3 right after paint:



Chris
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post #829 of 1587 Old 03-30-2020, 06:15 PM
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That bracing is killer!
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post #830 of 1587 Old 03-30-2020, 07:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Staring into the 1w1m comparisons gave me an idea. BMD with a Finalizer rear chamber. I will be working on that this week... The goal is a design optimized for room gain. -3db or -4db on the left corner from 30Hz and then +3db or more from 30Hz at the 80Hz point for headroom or hotter mid bass.
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post #831 of 1587 Old 03-30-2020, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTBDOC View Post
BEASTLY!!! Nice work, Chris (as usual!). And bonus points for spraying which would indicate you have a good cartridge mask. They are actually far better than what we docs use in hospitals. Now the portable positve air units are nice, but really pricey. I have a box of masks & gloves, but if I went somewhere with high suspicion, I'd use the P100 + organic vapor mask.vv


OT, but PAPR respirators should be supplied to all front line medical workers. I am a hazmat responder and work with highly toxic materials, and I mainly use SAR and SCBA because PAPR isn’t safe enough. In my job people wear cloth masks to avoid contaminating a product not providing any measure of respiratory protection. It’s been pretty difficult watching all the news about N95 masks because it seems that even N95 is insufficient. Everyone working in a hospital should be in sealed Tyvec suits with CBRN PAPRs and double gloves, plus full decon like a hazmat response.

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post #832 of 1587 Old 03-31-2020, 10:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Here is a sneak peek, this will be the BMD Delta. It is a 16Hz tuned beast coming in at 25 cuft, slightly smaller than the Alpha lol. It is the hybrid of a BMD and a Finalizer. Sim is 2000 watts going into the NSW with a 16Hz 3rd order HPF. Velocity sits at 32m/s with 2000 watts and 22.7m/s at 1000 watts.



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post #833 of 1587 Old 03-31-2020, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Delta comparison sims:

Alpha vs Delta





Delta vs BMD Shallow



Delta vs Finalizer


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Alpha assembled and ready to test. Will post a close-mic shortly.




This is the second operational Alpha, lol. Jared @Jk7.2 got his put together a few HOURS earlier.
Social distancing builds ftw.

Chris
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Alpha assembled and ready to test. Will post a close-mic shortly.




This is the second operational Alpha, lol. Jared @Jk7.2 got his put together a few HOURS earlier.
Social distancing builds ftw.

Chris
Man cant wait to hear your opinion between the alpha and v3

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The Devastator Index

I got mine fired up! No boring testing for me. I just turned up to reference and started running bass demos. By itself it sounded very clean and pretty loud, but adding back in the remaining 3 NSW’s from the front, two rear hst’s, and the nearfield, my jaw dropped. Then a smile that’s still there. I told Chris that this sub gave my concrete floor tactile feel. Lol. It’s not too far from the truth. This is by far the best my room has ever sounded.
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Man cant wait to hear your opinion between the alpha and v3

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Sadly, I may have an issue. I may be short on gasket tape. I wonder how fast PE can ship, lol.

I should know tonight. I have to rearrange a bunch of furniture and remove a sliding door to get the #%*£ thing in the house.

Chris
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Sadly, I may have an issue. I may be short on gasket tape. I wonder how fast PE can ship, lol.

I should know tonight. I have to rearrange a bunch of furniture and remove a sliding door to get the #%*£ thing in the house.

Chris
Lol yeah that is one of the hardest things is moving it into the house . The last 2 had to be taken up the basement stairs to the theater not a fun job. I've always used the window closed cell foam for my gasket tape from home depot works really well and cheap also.

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post #839 of 1587 Old 03-31-2020, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by hd0823 View Post
Lol yeah that is one of the hardest things is moving it into the house . The last 2 had to be taken up the basement stairs to the theater not a fun job. I've always used the window closed cell foam for my gasket tape from home depot works really well and cheap also.

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Only thing i’ve got local is a hardware store. Might see if they have some black window foam in the right size. Kinda misses the stay-at-home part, but thats what hand sanitizer is for.

My hatch panel is lexan, so I have to be picky, lol.

Chris
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post #840 of 1587 Old 03-31-2020, 12:03 PM
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The Devastator Index

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Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
Delta vs Finalizer
Not much reason to go Delta, by that model. Sure shows just how good finalizer is. Hows the port velocity between the two?

Big advantage to Delta seems to be 2-3db output 30-65hz.

Chris
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