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post #1261 of 1744 Old 05-03-2020, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
Upgrading to a 21" in this scenario will not even take an afternoon.
If the cutout is for a 21 and use a reducer for the PA460, 20 minutes tops to change out the 18 for the 21

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post #1262 of 1744 Old 05-03-2020, 07:39 PM
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This build is NOT harder... it just takes longer.... just take your time and you will be fine. Since you were planing to get 2 PA460, if you have the space build 2 DEVS and upgrade later to 18TWB100 for even more kick... yes it is worth it and your amp is just fine to power these...


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@Mocs123

This is good advice. It is far better to have the boxes for upgrade purposes into the better 18 and / or the 21 if you can. The 460 is a great budget driver but only an okay driver for full sub duty, by doing the upgraded driver you would be doing a substantial upgrade. If you do the VBSS’s then an upgrade is both a new driver and a new box..... again.

I have two mini narrows with 460s, you will want two boxes but you will not be disappointed even with the 460.
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post #1263 of 1744 Old 05-03-2020, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
The Mini Devastator 21 version 4 would work well with a PA460 short term, just use a removable manifold. You could drop a SAN 214.50 in there later and it would literally be Germany vs France at the start of WWII for that SAN vs the PA... Considering you have a 3000 that would push enough power into the SAN to reach 118db ish at 20Hz. If I were choosing a path it would be that one up there. It always starts with the one great DIY sub, but eventually the desire for more clean bass will make you upgrade things. Upgrading to a 21" in this scenario will not even take an afternoon.
So, this is exactly the path I've been considering for my first DIY sub build(s). The PA460s are just so darn cheap to get started with. I saw another poster use what they called a removable "reducer" to fit an 18" but it could be removed and a 21" could be dropped in later. Is that what you mean by a removable manifold? Also, I've read someone recommend the bigger 6000 amp for DEVs and the 3000 for ones like the v.b.s.s. I know it has a lot to do with the drivers and the person above has a 3000 already, but for this particular path would getting a 6000 make sense so there's some head room or for future upgradability? Or, if you were to do 2 DEVs this way to start would a 6000 be required no matter what to power both of them even with the PA460s?


Ha, I must be slow to post. Some of this is already addressed right above my post.

Last edited by Crantastic; 05-03-2020 at 08:00 PM.
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post #1264 of 1744 Old 05-03-2020, 08:14 PM
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[snip]..., if you were to do 2 DEVs this way to start would a 6000 be required no matter what to power both of them even with the PA460s?
That all depends on how loud you listen and how big your room is...and the Devs are very efficient.... so the 3000 is plenty to wreck your hearing. I have 2 DEVS and 2 Full Martys running on my 3000 just fine. Yes I watch movies at ref.... is a 6000 good to have....yes.... is it necessary?
Not at all...


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Sub List: 1- Red Five Mini V1 Devastator 18" w/PA460, 1- Red Five Devastator LFE 21", 1- Red Five Devastator 21" Finalizer V2 DF , 1- BOSS platform [The Hideaway Theater], 2- 18" "Full Marty" tuned to 17Hz w/RSS460HO
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post #1265 of 1744 Old 05-03-2020, 08:39 PM
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With all this 460 talk and 3000 vs 6000 just remember that the 460 only has 11mm of travel (not a lot) so the power limits are very small. For my mini 460s I think 350w each is all they can handle before they smoke AND they are 8 ohm drivers so once you do do two at 4ohms you should still only be needing less than 1000 watts at 4 ohms = efficient for a lot of SPL.
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post #1266 of 1744 Old 05-04-2020, 06:48 AM
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Hello all. I am currently building 2 21" Dev version 6's. Things are going well so far. How long do you wait for the PL premium to dry and unclamp? I am using birch ply and have been able to use pockets screws for most places until now. Thank you!

Chad
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post #1267 of 1744 Old 05-04-2020, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by radchad3 View Post
Hello all. I am currently building 2 21" Dev version 6's. Things are going well so far. How long do you wait for the PL premium to dry and unclamp? I am using birch ply and have been able to use pockets screws for most places until now. Thank you!

Chad
For the PL that I used, I re-enforced it with screws, which also minimized the number of clamps I needed to use. I found that overnight seamed to still leave the PL a bit squishy, I'd probably say a full 24 hours, or until you can't make much of a divot with your fingernail pushing into the glue. Or put some screws in to hold the rest of the time, but that makes a lot more bondo and finish work.
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post #1268 of 1744 Old 05-04-2020, 08:12 AM
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Yup, 24hr before stressing joints.

Chris
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post #1269 of 1744 Old 05-04-2020, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
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For reference this is the PA460 chugging along at 300 watts with a BW 20Hz 2nd order high pass filter active in the Devastator Mini 21" version 4. Excursion is just over 10mm. It is definitely the ultimate in having an upgrade path... Edit: I updated the MD21V4 with the PA460 graph. You can look at the post to compare the SPL levels between it and the SAN.


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post #1270 of 1744 Old 05-04-2020, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Devastator 21" Finalizer Version 2 DF (down firing)

This is a new Devastator variant! The orientation of the woofer is now down firing and they are also handy for stacking, (3db for added cone area and another 3db for doubling the power). I like this more than two woofers in the same box. This variant is close to the Finalizer it will be the Version 2 DF (down firing). I am including the assembly order in the pictures for this type of cabinet. Simulation is the SAN214.50 chugging along with 1000 watts, BW 16Hz 3rd order high pass filter active. The box features a shorter horn at 36 inches, that gives it more mid bass and saves on volume displaced. The port is a little shorter than the Finalizer, that pushes velocity up about 1.5m/s or so, but rear chamber volume is very close. Tune should be close to 16Hz. The way the baffle overlaps the horn cap, the woofer center is 12.75" from the top of the panel.














































































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post #1271 of 1744 Old 05-04-2020, 12:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Just for fun, if two of the Finalizer V2s were stacked and given 4000 watts this would be their potential.




@jujuman200 , please build 4 stacks someday, just for science
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post #1272 of 1744 Old 05-04-2020, 01:15 PM
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Just for fun, if two of the Finalizer V2s were stacked and given 4000 watts this would be their potential.




@jujuman200 , please build 4 stacks someday, just for science
So is this guy the FINAL iteration of this box?


Juju

Sub List: 1- Red Five Mini V1 Devastator 18" w/PA460, 1- Red Five Devastator LFE 21", 1- Red Five Devastator 21" Finalizer V2 DF , 1- BOSS platform [The Hideaway Theater], 2- 18" "Full Marty" tuned to 17Hz w/RSS460HO
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post #1273 of 1744 Old 05-04-2020, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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So is this guy the FINAL iteration of this box?


Juju

Yes, this is the final for this box. The passband is cleaner up top in exchange for a little velocity. Unless you want to do some custom work...
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post #1274 of 1744 Old 05-04-2020, 02:45 PM
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Awsome work on the DF DEV

Kind of what i asked about earlier for the Quad 12" Dev

"Whats that: would i like to see a DF Quad 12" Dev?"

Yes i would!

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post #1275 of 1744 Old 05-04-2020, 03:09 PM
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Awsome work on the DF DEV

Kind of what i asked about earlier for the Quad 12" Dev

"Whats that: would i like to see a DF Quad 12" Dev?"

Yes i would!
Personally I would just cut the 4 holes in this design and call it good...lol... This box is a beast.


Juju

Sub List: 1- Red Five Mini V1 Devastator 18" w/PA460, 1- Red Five Devastator LFE 21", 1- Red Five Devastator 21" Finalizer V2 DF , 1- BOSS platform [The Hideaway Theater], 2- 18" "Full Marty" tuned to 17Hz w/RSS460HO
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post #1276 of 1744 Old 05-04-2020, 03:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Awsome work on the DF DEV



Kind of what i asked about earlier for the Quad 12" Dev



"Whats that: would i like to see a DF Quad 12" Dev?"



Yes i would!
I made a spreadsheet calculator for the bottom firing orientation. I can look at a Quad revision easily enough. Maybe tweak the parameters a little...
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post #1277 of 1744 Old 05-04-2020, 03:31 PM
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You know, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Red came up with a DEV that had wings, a rocket booster engine, and could fly to the moon
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post #1278 of 1744 Old 05-04-2020, 03:40 PM - Thread Starter
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You know, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Red came up with a DEV that had wings, a rocket booster engine, and could fly to the moon
Galatic conquest is not a near term goal, although I am not ruling it out...

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post #1279 of 1744 Old 05-04-2020, 04:18 PM
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Galatic conquest

I knew it
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Hello again, im about finished witht he mini v5, have yet to put the back and top on and speaker in, but first ive just seen about gasket tape, how important is that? and also about putting pillows inside?
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post #1281 of 1744 Old 05-05-2020, 04:53 AM
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Hello again, im about finished witht he mini v5, have yet to put the back and top on and speaker in, but first ive just seen about gasket tape, how important is that? and also about putting pillows inside?
If you're referring to gasket tape around the driver, then I don't believe you need it. The driver already has gasket tape that seems sufficient...at least for the 21ds115. I believe the gasket tape around the access panel is required to prevent air leaks. I recommend a pillow be placed in the enclosure even for a mini. Below is a close mic measurement of a Mini with and without a pillow

With a pillow


Without a pillow
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Hello again, im about finished witht he mini v5, have yet to put the back and top on and speaker in, but first ive just seen about gasket tape, how important is that? and also about putting pillows inside?
Gasket tape is VERY important.... Pillows...Start with a king size pillow and attach it to a side wall then listen. if you still get a slight ringing add 1 more... enjoy your D...


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Sub List: 1- Red Five Mini V1 Devastator 18" w/PA460, 1- Red Five Devastator LFE 21", 1- Red Five Devastator 21" Finalizer V2 DF , 1- BOSS platform [The Hideaway Theater], 2- 18" "Full Marty" tuned to 17Hz w/RSS460HO
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post #1283 of 1744 Old 05-05-2020, 06:33 AM
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Gasket tape is VERY important.... Pillows...Start with a king size pillow and attach it to a side wall then listen. if you still get a slight ringing add 1 more... enjoy your D...


Juju
So just gasket tape or equlivent at the top port no where else? And as for pillows can i use insulation/other stuff?

Now shopping for handles as this thing will be moved fairly often (Few times a year) and its very heavy already
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post #1284 of 1744 Old 05-05-2020, 06:41 AM - Thread Starter
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So just gasket tape or equlivent at the top port no where else? And as for pillows can i use insulation/other stuff?

Now shopping for handles as this thing will be moved fairly often (Few times a year) and its very heavy already

The gasket tape or weather stripping goes around the outside edge of the access panel frame. I would turn off the lights in the room and check the seal on the sub by stick a flash light in each part of the front horn section. If you see light in the back by the sub, you have a seal issue. The cheapest pillows you can find at Walmart would great, tack one on each side panel, that will take out an rear chamber resonance. The goal is free moving air in the cabinet and not blocking the vent. If you have a couple chunks of insulation you could tack those on the side panels as well.

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post #1285 of 1744 Old 05-05-2020, 06:45 AM - Thread Starter
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This is the best shot I have of the gasket tape on my build. I had an air leak on the top left corner there, I had to double stack the tape and then put another piece behind my double stack section. I also added little pieces in the corners, again it looked like I had a small leak in the corners where seams met.



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post #1286 of 1744 Old 05-05-2020, 06:48 AM
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The Devastator Index

Gasket tape:





I don’t use handles on mine, but a good selection can be found here:
https://www.parts-express.com/cat/handles/652
I would suggest a bar handle with no moving parts to avoid rattling.


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Last edited by a77cj7; 05-05-2020 at 06:53 AM.
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post #1287 of 1744 Old 05-05-2020, 07:39 AM
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How do you guys recess neurtrik adapter flush with the cabinet? Any tips will be highly appreciated including tools and tricks. Thanks all!
Also, what is the best way to remove excess PL3 glue like a thicker bead near the seams and baffle rails once it has dried?
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How do you guys recess neurtrik adapter flush with the cabinet? Any tips will be highly appreciated including tools and tricks. Thanks all!

I haven’t done a neutrik, but I do terminal cups with router jig. Same process applies.




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post #1289 of 1744 Old 05-05-2020, 07:47 AM
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I haven’t done a neutrik, but I do terminal cups with router jig. Same process applies.




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Thanks a77cj7. Unfortunately I do not have a router. Any alternates?
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post #1290 of 1744 Old 05-05-2020, 07:50 AM
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Thanks a77cj7. Unfortunately I do not have a router. Any alternates?

You can use a forstner bit in a drill. Depth control will require a delicate touch.

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