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post #1 of 39 Old 10-03-2019, 03:05 PM - Thread Starter
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The Devastator Index

The number of versions and different builds of Devastators keep multiplying, it would be nice if some of this information were kept more neatly in one place. This thread will be a work in progress and is on the project list I will add new variants to this thread and link below. Note, the SAF version is getting a revision that shrinks it down more yet keeps SPL mostly the same.

Designs (note first link has most of the guiding information)
Build threads/other

Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | The Devastator Index | Dev Build
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
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post #2 of 39 Old 10-03-2019, 03:12 PM
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This is a great idea and will make things much smoother for people wanting to build these.

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post #3 of 39 Old 10-03-2019, 03:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by hd0823 View Post
This is a great idea and will make things much smoother for people wanting to build these.

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That would be very helpful! If the pictures were in order with one sentence summaries of what needs to happen at each step that would be very helpful.

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You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
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post #4 of 39 Old 10-03-2019, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
That would be very helpful! If the pictures were in order with one sentence summaries of what needs to happen at each step that would be very helpful.


I’ll be honest that was my original intent but you get so caught up in the build you forget to take pictures of every step. Super good idea red five hats off to you for your help and support.

Ps don’t forget to add the MBM that will be coming to to a home very near me!


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post #5 of 39 Old 10-03-2019, 07:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superkyle View Post
I’ll be honest that was my original intent but you get so caught up in the build you forget to take pictures of every step. Super good idea red five hats off to you for your help and support.

Ps don’t forget to add the MBM that will be coming to to a home very near me!


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The Mini MBM, the LBM, BMD MAX, 30" wide almost v1 and a new 18 inch version are on the eventual list. I should make an MBM version of the v1 tuned around 28Hz.

Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | The Devastator Index | Dev Build
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen
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post #6 of 39 Old 10-04-2019, 12:18 AM
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Maby list the response for each in the first post. The names don't tell the full story. Like the -3db or -6db response.
Gives a nice and fast overview.

Ps. Great work on the designs
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post #7 of 39 Old 10-05-2019, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Micro Devastator MBM 15"

Here is the Micro Devastator MBM! (going with micro something else might be a mini....) Comes in at an external 7.5 cuft, nice small foot print. Primary function is a two way configuration with the BMD MAX NSW to hit the mid bass really hard. Though it should work well with big ported HT drivers that lack the chest kick. Recommended crossover point is 60Hz. A 2nd order HPF for the micro and a 4th Order filter for the accompanying sub is recommended.


Sub drivers of choice. The Lavoce WAF154.00 or the B&C 15TBW100. Note not that usual panel overlaps. The Dayton PA380 is also viable, but power handling and excursion is more limited. Screen shot attached at the bottom.





2000 watts or 107.7 volts of power 45Hz 2nd HPF.






Particle velocity with 2000 watts of port and horn. Dark Port light horn 45Hz 2nd Order HPF active.










More detailed screen shots in the attachments!
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Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | The Devastator Index | Dev Build
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen

Last edited by Red Five; 11-07-2019 at 07:23 AM.
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post #8 of 39 Old 10-05-2019, 12:31 PM - Thread Starter
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The BMD MAX 21"

This is the BMD MAX! The sub is built to handle the wrath of the Eminence NSW6021-6. Not too much has changed from the base BMD model. HPF 19Hz 2nd order should keep things in check. 95 volts = roughly 2.38 kw with 3.8 Ohms of load. The main goal of the design was keeping port velocity under 25m/s.











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Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | The Devastator Index | Dev Build
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen

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post #9 of 39 Old 10-07-2019, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
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The Mini Devastator 18" Box Size 40"x25.5"x24"

Tune on the box is 20Hz, this was squeezing all I could into the space, if you want a lower tune you can plug ports. The first port usually drops the tune 4Hz or so. External volume is only 14.2 cubic feet Preferred drivers are the LaVoce SAF184.03 and the SAN 184.03, the PA460 will work. I would also assume the 18TBW100 will work very well and the 18DS115 will work, but port velocity is high due to the stronger motor and higher excursion capability. The center of the sub woofer cutout is 10 inches from the top of the baffle panel. Assembly guide.






1300 watts or 87 volts, 20Hz 2nd order HPF.






PA460 1w1m vs the VBSS






Assembly order is mostly the same as a regular Devastator, the rear port board goes up the back panel and that is the main change.


















EQ setting for close to flat.

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Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | The Devastator Index | Dev Build
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen

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post #10 of 39 Old 10-07-2019, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
Here is the Micro Devastator MBM! (going with micro something else might be a mini....) Comes in at an external 7.5 cuft, nice small foot print. Primary function is a two way configuration with the BMD MAX NSW to hit the mid bass really hard. Though it should work well with big ported HT drivers that lack the chest kick.


Sub drivers of choice. The Lavoce WAF154.00 or the B&C 15TBW100. Note not that usual panel overlaps. The Dayton PA380 is also viable, but power handling and excursion is more limited. Screen shot attached at the bottom.

OMG now your killing me. I've been debating replacing my entertainment center (link) with two larger shelf type units (one with AVR+5channel amp + Sources, the other with my 4 sub amps) and then spacing them out wider (moving to a 85" TV soon) and then using the area previously taken up by that entertainment center (63"W x 28"H x 20"D) for subs and my future center (which is 14" high).......

Two of these would fit in there side by side decently and work with the height I was wanting to go with too. I'd cover them (and the doors on the towers) with speaker fabric and they'd be "stealth"...

OK, is there going to be a flatpack of these by any chance? If not, I'd likely talk to the folks Mike uses in Chicago to at least cut everything down for me..... but a flatpack would still be easier (albeit more costly)......


GRRRRR ****Wheels spinning****

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post #11 of 39 Old 10-07-2019, 10:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
OMG now your killing me. I've been debating replacing my entertainment center (link) with two larger shelf type units (one with AVR+5channel amp + Sources, the other with my 4 sub amps) and then spacing them out wider (moving to a 85" TV soon) and then using the area previously taken up by that entertainment center (63"W x 28"H x 20"D) for subs and my future center (which is 14" high).......

Two of these would fit in there side by side decently and work with the height I was wanting to go with too. I'd cover them (and the doors on the towers) with speaker fabric and they'd be "stealth"...

OK, is there going to be a flatpack of these by any chance? If not, I'd likely talk to the folks Mike uses in Chicago to at least cut everything down for me..... but a flatpack would still be easier (albeit more costly)......


GRRRRR ****Wheels spinning****

I have not had a conversation with Kevin about any of the variants yet... for now it is full DIY.

Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | The Devastator Index | Dev Build
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen
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post #12 of 39 Old 10-07-2019, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
I have not had a conversation with Kevin about any of the variants yet... for now it is full DIY.
No worries, in my excitement I failed there was a reason it was smaller....... it uses smaller drivers.... *DUH*...

I need larger drivers given the amount of space I have to fill, and the distance from the main LP...

I may still do something like that, but I'd likely need the larger variants (using 18 or 21" drivers)......

Thanks for letting me know these are full DIY. Makes sense.

Thanks for at least putting together all the graphs and plans. Thats a huge undertaking....

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post #13 of 39 Old 10-07-2019, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
No worries, in my excitement I failed there was a reason it was smaller....... it uses smaller drivers.... *DUH*...

I need larger drivers given the amount of space I have to fill, and the distance from the main LP...

I may still do something like that, but I'd likely need the larger variants (using 18 or 21" drivers)......

Thanks for letting me know these are full DIY. Makes sense.

Thanks for at least putting together all the graphs and plans. Thats a huge undertaking....

Well diaphragm size matters less as the frequency goes up. For every octave you go down, you need 4x the displacement to achieve the same level of efficiency. That is a good zone for running a 15 inch woofer. It only has to reach into the mid 50s region. 134db, is 134db with bass, but a 18 in a bigger box with a stronger motor could get a few more db potentially.

Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | The Devastator Index | Dev Build
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen
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I'm really curious about how this models with the PA460 vs the VBSS cab. Any chance you could plot this?

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post #15 of 39 Old 10-07-2019, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
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I have the apples to apples comparison normalized to 1w1m. Then there is the 330 watt graph pushing close to 11mm of excursion which is the max for the 460. The outcome is expected, down about 8 db.





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Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | The Devastator Index | Dev Build
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen

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post #16 of 39 Old 10-07-2019, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
Well diaphragm size matters less as the frequency goes up. For every octave you go down, you need 4x the displacement to achieve the same level of efficiency. That is a good zone for running a 15 inch woofer. It only has to reach into the mid 50s region. 134db, is 134db with bass, but a 18 in a bigger box with a stronger motor could get a few more db potentially.
Gotcha. Once I get things kinda finalized I will PM you with the space I've got available and what parameters I'm looking at, and we can discuss if any of these are a good idea. The issue is likely going to be my limited (for a horn) depth at around 22-24", which may limit the driver size choice for a horn, but not as much for just ported.

**Off Topic** Right now I've got WinISD open with a pair of 21's in 16cf tuned to 15hz @ 3m and the sims look good with port velocity in check.

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post #17 of 39 Old 10-07-2019, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
Gotcha. Once I get things kinda finalized I will PM you with the space I've got available and what parameters I'm looking at, and we can discuss if any of these are a good idea. The issue is likely going to be my limited (for a horn) depth at around 22-24", which may limit the driver size choice for a horn, but not as much for just ported.



**Off Topic** Right now I've got WinISD open with a pair of 21's in 16cf tuned to 15hz @ 3m and the sims look good with port velocity in check.
Well we can talk about it later. If you go 30 wide I can get an 18DS115 to do a lot. The horn cross sectional area is relative to the subs Sd. An 18 will be easier to keep shallow vs a 21".
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Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | The Devastator Index | Dev Build
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen
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post #18 of 39 Old 10-11-2019, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
Tune on the box is 20Hz, this was squeezing all I could into the space, if you want a lower tune you can plug ports. The first port usually drops the tune 4Hz or so. External volume is only 14.2 cubic feet Preferred driver is the LaVoce SAF184.03 the PA460 will work. I would also assume the 18TBW100 will work very well and the 18DS115 will work, but port velocity is high due to the stronger motor and higher excursion capability. The sub woofer cutout is 10 inches from the top of the baffle panel.






1300 watts or 87 volts, 20Hz 2nd order HPF.









Assembly order is mostly the same as a regular Devastator, the rear port board goes up the back panel and that is the main change.
















Hello Red Five,


Can you explain more on "The sub woofer cutout is 10 inches from the top of the baffle panel." Should I mark 10" from the top and use it as the center for the circle?
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post #19 of 39 Old 10-11-2019, 10:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Hello Red Five,


Can you explain more on "The sub woofer cutout is 10 inches from the top of the baffle panel." Should I mark 10" from the top and use it as the center for the circle?

Correct, I will change the wording.

Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | The Devastator Index | Dev Build
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
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post #20 of 39 Old 10-20-2019, 03:37 PM
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Which version is tuned a little higher? I am thinking a pair for 95% music using pa460. Thanks!!
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post #21 of 39 Old 10-20-2019, 03:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racerryan View Post
Which version is tuned a little higher? I am thinking a pair for 95% music using pa460. Thanks!!
Currently just the micro for filling the drop in mid bass present with the BMD MAX. Though I am thinking of revisiting the v1 and Mini with 28Hz tuned MBM versions.
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Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | The Devastator Index | Dev Build
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen

Last edited by Red Five; 10-20-2019 at 03:47 PM.
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post #22 of 39 Old 10-20-2019, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racerryan View Post
Which version is tuned a little higher? I am thinking a pair for 95% music using pa460. Thanks!!

IF you are going to use a PA460..... stick it in a MINI.....


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...l#post58654500


And ENJOY!!


Juju

Wish List: 2- Red Five DEVASTATOR MINI, 2- Red Five DEVASTATOR LFE, 1- BOSS platform.
Anthology http://www.speakerdesignworks.com/Anthology_1.html


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post #23 of 39 Old 10-21-2019, 01:39 PM - Thread Starter
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The red crayon version of the Mini Devastator assembly guide













I recommend 48" bar clamps for this step. Getting the baffle tight against the top and tight against the front panel is difficult without them. Use the bar clamps to pull the baffle assembly towards the top with the enclosure sitting on its side. I would clamp towards the open side and then on the bottom port rail. A couple more bar clamps should be used to pull the baffle forward near the top of the baffle and then also near the bottom of the baffle. I would also recommend PL3X since you have some time to work on getting things in place, it takes more than 10 minutes for it to become tacky at room temperature. Once clamped securely screw or nail the baffle to the top panel. This should keep the baffle tight up against that panel and allow for the enclosure to be moved to its face. Then you should be able to add some weight to keep pressure on the baffle in the forward position while the glue sets.







































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Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | The Devastator Index | Dev Build
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen

Last edited by Red Five; Today at 08:26 AM.
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post #24 of 39 Old 10-21-2019, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
Though I am thinking of revisiting the v1 and Mini with 28Hz tuned MBM version.
I will keep an eye out for that! Thanks Red5
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post #25 of 39 Old 10-22-2019, 11:59 AM
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It be cool to see one of these VS VBSS version with that magic tune provided.
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post #26 of 39 Old 10-22-2019, 12:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racerryan View Post
I will keep an eye out for that! Thanks Red5

This is a first look at the Mini Devastator MBM. 91 volts or about 1400 watts into the SAF184.03 with a second order 25Hz HPF, tune comes in at 29Hz. The PA will most likely be down 6 to 8db, either power handling or excursion will run out. I am confident in the CAD model and the sim, the pesky cut list will get finished later


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Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | The Devastator Index | Dev Build
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen
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post #27 of 39 Old 10-22-2019, 01:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Mini Devastator MBM 18"

This is the Mini Devastator MBM! Very similar to the v1 in construction, but in the form factor of the mini. Sub should be positioned center of the baffle and 10 inches from the top. PA460, TBW SAF etc will all play well in this cabinet. Model was done using the SAF184.03. The sim is 91 volts or a little over 1400 watts into the SAF184.03 with a 25Hz 2nd order HPF. Tune works out to 29Hz.














PA460 1w1m Mini full range vs Mini MBM


PA460 50 volts or about 450 watts 11mm of excursion with a 25Hz 2nd order HPF.

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Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | The Devastator Index | Dev Build
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen

Last edited by Red Five; 10-23-2019 at 06:50 AM.
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post #28 of 39 Old 10-22-2019, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remy.Alexander View Post
It be cool to see one of these VS VBSS version with that magic tune provided.

What tune on the VBSS?

Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | The Devastator Index | Dev Build
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen
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post #29 of 39 Old 10-22-2019, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
What tune on the VBSS?

20hz
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post #30 of 39 Old 10-22-2019, 03:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remy.Alexander View Post
20hz
Post #15 .

Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | The Devastator Index | Dev Build
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen
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