MB QUART's unable to be driven by Behringer NX3000 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 128 Old 10-08-2019, 11:29 AM - Thread Starter
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MB QUART's unable to be driven by Behringer NX3000

If I have posted this in the wrong sub forums I apologies, I was unsure which to post in.

I have build a BOSS platform for my HT using four MB QUART DS1-304 drivers & am trying to use a Behringer NX3000 to power them.

Even when I turn my AVR to a high volume level & max out the gain control on the NX3000 the drivers a hardly moving.

Its like the amp does not have enough power to drive them.

I have wired them like this & connected them to channel A using a Speakon connector using +1 & -1 terminals.



I have also set the mode switch to bridged but I will be honest I have tried all the modes & non of them seems to make much difference.

I have ran out of ideas as to what to try next other than the amp could be faulty?
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post #2 of 128 Old 10-08-2019, 01:24 PM
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1) What AVR are you using
2) Do you have another subwoofer you can connect to the AVR to check that the AVR is actually outputting what you think it should be from the subwoofer output

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post #3 of 128 Old 10-08-2019, 02:25 PM
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MB QUART's unable to be driven by Behringer NX3000

The iNuke won’t drive a 2 ohm load bridged. It has to be in stereo or mono using just speaker A or speaker B.

The Crossover button on the back should be set to Full Range.

Please take and post pictures of:

-your AVR
-Any AVR configuration settings related to LFE/Bass
-How AVR is connected to the inuke
-Back of the iNuke amp
-Configuration screen(s) from iNuke software


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post #4 of 128 Old 10-08-2019, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
The iNuke won’t drive a 2 ohm load bridged. It has to be in stereo or mono using just speaker A or speaker B.

It's not bridged:



Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
I have wired them like this & connected them to channel A using a Speakon connector using +1 & -1 terminals.
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post #5 of 128 Old 10-08-2019, 04:56 PM
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MB QUART's unable to be driven by Behringer NX3000

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus33 View Post
It's not bridged:

Yes it is/was

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post

I have wired them like this & connected them to channel A using a Speakon connector using +1 & -1 terminals.
..........

I have also set the mode switch to bridged but I will be honest I have tried all the modes & non of them seems to make much difference.





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post #6 of 128 Old 10-08-2019, 04:58 PM
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The woffers in that configuration can take a LOT more -. Re run cal----Max pots on inuke like you have, go in and re run calibration
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post #7 of 128 Old 10-08-2019, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
Yes it is/was

He tried the bridged switch to see if it would change anything when it wasn't working properly. He didn't rewire it to bridged. It's not wired to both channels, so it's safe @ 2 ohms on channel A. You know all of this, why are we discussing it?

The rest of your requests are necessary to try and solve it.
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post #8 of 128 Old 10-08-2019, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post

I have ran out of ideas as to what to try next other than the amp could be faulty?

Are any of the signal lights lighting up on the front of the amp?
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post #9 of 128 Old 10-08-2019, 07:47 PM
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MB QUART's unable to be driven by Behringer NX3000

Yes it can. I’m driving the same four mbquart 12” shallow mount subs on a single channel of an NX3000D in a total of 2 ohm load off one channel, and it has plenty of power for BOSS platform transducers.

Hook your laptop up to the amp, download the dsp software and take a look to see what’s going on. Do you have much input signal coming in? Do you have much signal going out? Edit: just noticed you don’t have the DSP variant. Sell it off and buy the D variant. You’ll want DSP for the Bass platform — ABSOLUTELY.

Subs should be wired according to this schematic
https://jlaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us...bile_site=true

Dual 4ohm voice coils x the number of drivers you have.

In your case:
Four Dual Voice Coil Speakers in Series / Parallel
Connecting the two voice coils of each driver in series (+ to -) and the drivers themselves in parallel (+ to +, etc.) will result in the following impedances:

Dual–8 Ohm Subwoofers: 4 Ohms
Dual-6 Ohm Subwoofers: 3 Ohms
Dual–4 Ohm Subwoofers: 2 Ohms
Dual–2 Ohm Subwoofers: 1 Ohm
Dual–1.5 Ohm Subwoofers: 0.75 Ohm





The silk screen in the back of the amp say channel A is +1/-1.

Bridge (which you do not want) is +1/+2

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...ifier-with-dsp
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post #10 of 128 Old 10-09-2019, 02:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus33 View Post
Are any of the signal lights lighting up on the front of the amp?

Yes if I run max volume the green light flashes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
Yes it can. I’m driving the same four mbquart 12” shallow mount subs on a single channel of an NX3000D in a total of 2 ohm load off one channel, and it has plenty of power for BOSS platform transducers.

Hook your laptop up to the amp, download the dsp software and take a look to see what’s going on. Do you have much input signal coming in? Do you have much signal going out? Edit: just noticed you don’t have the DSP variant. Sell it off and buy the D variant. You’ll want DSP for the Bass platform — ABSOLUTELY.

Subs should be wired according to this schematic
https://jlaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us...bile_site=true

Dual 4ohm voice coils x the number of drivers you have.

In your case:
Four Dual Voice Coil Speakers in Series / Parallel
Connecting the two voice coils of each driver in series (+ to -) and the drivers themselves in parallel (+ to +, etc.) will result in the following impedances:

Dual–8 Ohm Subwoofers: 4 Ohms
Dual-6 Ohm Subwoofers: 3 Ohms
Dual–4 Ohm Subwoofers: 2 Ohms
Dual–2 Ohm Subwoofers: 1 Ohm
Dual–1.5 Ohm Subwoofers: 0.75 Ohm





The silk screen in the back of the amp say channel A is +1/-1.

Bridge (which you do not want) is +1/+2

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...ifier-with-dsp
I do not have the DSP version of the NX3000 just the plain old standard one without DSP.

I have a MiniDSP 2x4 HD sitting between my AVR (Arcam AVR850) and the NX3000, I am going to use this for my DSP needs.

I did wonder if the signal coming from the 2x4 HD was not strong enough for the NX3000 to amplify?

I have triple checked that all crossovers, PEQ & compression is disabled on the outputs & the gain is set to 0dB. I can see the signal going out is plenty using the meters in the MiniDSP software

I have measured with a multimeter the impedance of the circuit & it says 2 ohms just like the MB QUART diagram I posted above shows.
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post #11 of 128 Old 10-09-2019, 04:07 AM
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I am pretty sure your issue with the amp is related to your wiring. To confirm this go here:
https://www.the12volt.com/caraudio/s...g-diagrams.asp
Once there based on your subs select qty then impedance you will then get all the different ways to wire your subs. You may be getting 2 ohms with your wiring but based on the diagram on option 2 you need to change it. Hopefully this will help?
http://www.the12volt.com/caraudio/su...s.asp?Q=4&I=42

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post #12 of 128 Old 10-09-2019, 04:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post

I did wonder if the signal coming from the 2x4 HD was not strong enough for the NX3000 to amplify?

I have triple checked that all crossovers, PEQ & compression is disabled on the outputs & the gain is set to 0dB. I can see the signal going out is plenty using the meters in the MiniDSP software

I have measured with a multimeter the impedance of the circuit & it says 2 ohms just like the MB QUART diagram I posted above shows.
Yes I think you have nailed the problem with this. I would try bypassing the MiniDSP first and see what happens. If that doesn't work I"d try something like a clean box pro. I remember having to use this on my inuke amps in order to get anywhere near decent volume levels. Before the cleanbox, speakers barely moving, amp at max, gain on receiver at max. After clean box, inuke volume was like at 10% gain back to normal on receiver, plenty of volume.

If you are driving too low impedance, it won't show up as working but too low volume. It'll be loud for a little bit then blow an internal fuse, internal breaker, or the amp.

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post #13 of 128 Old 10-09-2019, 04:39 AM
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The image you posted in the first link of how you show it wired up is broken.

I agree. Take the mini dsp out of the chain. Go direct from AVR to NX3000. Also test one sub at a time - make sure all subs work. In series / parallel I think if you have a single failed driver then then none will work. (Turn your gain knob down very low to test a single sub at a time your amp can put out 1k Watts at 2 ohm over a single channel and your subs are open air. You could fry the coils very quickly if you over power them. Remember it only takes about 20-25 watts to power them individually in free air. You should see a lot of cone movement with 25 watts in open air. My NX3000D limiter is in place at 100 watts total for all four and I can visibly see the drivers bouncing hard at that drive level.

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post #14 of 128 Old 10-09-2019, 04:55 AM
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@AdamAttewell, I too had a problem with my BOSS and the mini DSP at first, thought I had a bad amp. For troubleshooting, as @Archaea( who helped me quite a bit) and @markmon1 mentioned, remove that, and you should be good. Then you can troubleshoot the inputs/outputs of the mini DSP. Good luck, and report back.
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post #15 of 128 Old 10-09-2019, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
Yes if I run max volume the green light flashes.



I did wonder if the signal coming from the 2x4 HD was not strong enough for the NX3000 to amplify?


That's the problem, you're not getting enough signal to the amp. The 2x4 HD will work fine once it's set up properly.

As others have suggested, remove the 2x4 and try again. Most likely, it will be fine. Then you can reinstall the 2x4 and troubleshoot it to get it set up properly.


Edit: Also, the default settings on the 2x4 HD use outputs 1&3 for subs and outputs 2&4 are high passed for regular speakers. If you're using output 2 or 4 to your amp and haven't changed the x over, that's why you are having an issue. They can be changed to whatever you like.

Last edited by zeus33; 10-09-2019 at 10:40 AM.
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post #16 of 128 Old 10-11-2019, 07:09 AM - Thread Starter
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So I had some time today to troubleshoot, I have tried this so far:

1. Bypassed the MiniDSP 2x4 HD by connecting the AVR directly to the NX3000.

2. I had a replacement NX3000 shipped to me & tried that.


Neither of these made any difference. The drivers are moving but only slightly.

I have a Buttkicker BKA1000-N so hooked that up & they work great with the 2x4 HD in the chain also.

I can get plenty of output with this amp so it is something to so with the Behringer.

I still do think it is something to so with the input signal to the Behringer not being a high enough voltage as I can only get the green signal light to illuminate using a normal listening volume on my AVR.

I can push my AVR volume higher & get the amber light to flicker but its to loud to use for listening.

I just dont see how I can fix this as I can't really do a lot about what comes out of the sub out on my AVR.

The only thing I can think of is placing something like a pre-amp after the AVR to boost the signal before it reaches the NX3000 but this seems very unusual & not something that is normally required?

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post #17 of 128 Old 10-11-2019, 09:35 AM
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What are the settings on each screen in the iNuke. Perhaps there is a high-pass or crossover enabled.......

You could also download the software to a laptop and screenshot what it says....

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post #18 of 128 Old 10-11-2019, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
What are the settings on each screen in the iNuke. Perhaps there is a high-pass or crossover enabled.......

You could also download the software to a laptop and screenshot what it says....
He mentioned earlier he doesn't have the DSP variant, its an NX3000 not an NX3000D.

Quote:
I have a Buttkicker BKA1000-N so hooked that up & they work great with the 2x4 HD in the chain also.
If the buttkickers work good but the subs do not, the problem is with the sub wiring. Take pictures of your sub wiring and show us.

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post #19 of 128 Old 10-11-2019, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jevchance View Post
He mentioned earlier he doesn't have the DSP variant, its an NX3000 not an NX3000D.







If the buttkickers work good but the subs do not, the problem is with the sub wiring. Take pictures of your sub wiring and show us.


Missed that. DOH.

Yes take pictures of the sub wiring and the back of the amp too.


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post #20 of 128 Old 10-11-2019, 11:37 AM
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Or your speakon is wired wrong.

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post #21 of 128 Old 10-11-2019, 01:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Taking picture of the back of the amp whilst plugged in is going to be near impossible due to where its installed. All my equipment is an the attic.

Also the wiring is going to be tricky too, they are built into a riser with a two seater couch screwed to the top so I would need to disassemble everything to take pictures. Couple of hours job.

My Speakon connector is wired to +1 & -1

I got curious & tried the pre-amp from my record player between the 2X4 HD & the NX3000.

It sure did resolve the volume problem, I only needed to turn the gain control up one click on the NX3000 with the pre-amp installed to get the drivers moving.

I did not push it any further as this pre-amp was designed for a record player so I left it there.

Got me thinking about the 2x4 HD, it has input sensitivity jumpers & by default they are set to 2VRMS with the alternative being 4VRMS would this help me out in boosting the signal to the NX3000 or am I barking up the wrong tree?
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post #22 of 128 Old 10-11-2019, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
Got me thinking about the 2x4 HD, it has input sensitivity jumpers & by default they are set to 2VRMS with the alternative being 4VRMS would this help me out in boosting the signal to the NX3000 or am I barking up the wrong tree?
Setting the jumper to 4V actually cuts the input signal in half. That's not what you want to do.

What do the MiniDSP meters show? That's a good troubleshooting tool to make sure everything is normal from your AVR into the mDSP and out of the mDSP.

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post #23 of 128 Old 10-11-2019, 02:02 PM
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post #24 of 128 Old 10-11-2019, 02:04 PM
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Another thing. Have to tried (briefly) touching a 9v to the leads to see if all the subs are moving in the same direction?
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post #25 of 128 Old 10-11-2019, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
Taking picture of the back of the amp whilst plugged in is going to be near impossible due to where its installed. All my equipment is an the attic.
That will be tricky. Thankfully I only want to look at what the dip switches are set to on the back of the inuke. It doesnt have to be plugged in for that necessarily.



"Mode" should be either "Mono" or "Stereo"
"Crossover" should be "Full Range"



On the front, turn both knobs all the way up and leave them there

Then go in and lower the gain on the OUTPUT portion of the MiniDSP interface. (pages 16 & 21 of this manual).

You can then use the MiniDSP interface to increase or decrease the amount of "bump" you get from the subs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
Also the wiring is going to be tricky too, they are built into a riser with a two seater couch screwed to the top so I would need to disassemble everything to take pictures. Couple of hours job.

My Speakon connector is wired to +1 & -1
Also are you using speakon's only at the iNuke and bare wire into the BOSS? If speakon's on both sides, have you checked them both to ensure they are wired right?

I'd also suggest if you aren't, that you do use speakons on both sides of the cable, and both at the subs and the iNuke.

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Last edited by EndersShadow; 10-11-2019 at 02:36 PM.
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post #26 of 128 Old 10-12-2019, 01:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
Setting the jumper to 4V actually cuts the input signal in half. That's not what you want to do.

What do the MiniDSP meters show? That's a good troubleshooting tool to make sure everything is normal from your AVR into the mDSP and out of the mDSP.
I do know if this will help as I was just plying music for these screen grabs.










Here is the configuration of the switches on the rear of the NX3000


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post #27 of 128 Old 10-12-2019, 01:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
Setting the jumper to 4V actually cuts the input signal in half. That's not what you want to do.

What do the MiniDSP meters show? That's a good troubleshooting tool to make sure everything is normal from your AVR into the mDSP and out of the mDSP.
I do know if this will help as I was just plying music for these screen grabs.










Here is the configuration of the switches on the rear of the NX3000





Just to be clear the drivers are producing sound I just cannot get them to produce enough output.


The drivers are not mouted in a cabinet but are in free air so Speakon connectors at the driver end are not possible.


They are wired directly with speaker cable to the binding posts on the drivers.
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Duplicate post.

Last edited by AdamAttewell; 10-13-2019 at 07:46 AM.
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post #29 of 128 Old 10-12-2019, 01:52 PM
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Everything looks good to that point.

What are you using for testing material? Normal music isn't going to create all that much excursion. Have you tried a good bass demo scene from a movie that contains ULF? Either that or use bass test tones <20Hz.

Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Custom Tapered Ported Volt-6 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4
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post #30 of 128 Old 10-12-2019, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
... Just to be clear the drivers are producing sound I just cannot get them to produce enough output.

The drivers are not mouted in a cabinet but are in free air...
Erich H and jevchance like this.

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