Cmax 1299 build - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 25 Old 10-11-2019, 07:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Cmax 1299 build

After much deliberation (and probably more to come, let's be real) I've decided on building 3 (LCR) of the 1299's. They'll be total overkill for my current setup, but oh well. My decision process started with the HTM12's, then the HT12's, then the 1099's and finally the 1299's ( @tuxedocivic ). The HTM's are tempting, but I like the idea of the three-way design and the horizontal center combo, which led to the 1099's. Pre-upgraditis then made me think if I went that way I should just do the 1299's for better midbass and the larger wave-guide, and so I won't have regrets down the road.


My next thought was that I'd just build the 1299's sealed for ease of assembly, but after reading a ton of the 1299 build threads on here ( @blister64 @Rowan611 @Jk7.2 ) , I've decided to do ported instead. There's a ported design by @baniels that looks great, double slot port tuned to 47 Hz. I'm a bit partial to the double slot port design.



https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...s-trilogy.html



I was thinking of co-opting his dimensions, bracing and port placement (and possibly the removable back portion for the crossover). Unfortunately his build thread was never updated with results after the build was completed. I'd like to confirm the box design with WinISD, but I don't run Windows so I'll have to find a work around. Can anyone provide some insight on this design or just a good ported design in general? If I make the ports slightly longer, that should lower the tune correct? I figure I'd port the center as well, unless that isn't advised.


The only issue I can see with these 1299's is that they'll make my 55" TV look like a fisher-price toy. I'll be replacing two bookshelf SVS Ultra speakers for what it's worth.
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post #2 of 25 Old 10-11-2019, 08:36 AM
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I ended up building mine sealed....and, I only regret it when I want to listen to music without subs. I’m still debating weather or not to rebuild them. In my 1299 thread I list all the dimensions of my 1299 ported boxes. Feel free to use those. But, you need dsp to prevent over driving the drivers.


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post #3 of 25 Old 10-11-2019, 09:15 AM
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Great thread topic, I'll be following with interest. I've been trying to come up with a ported solution that uses the baffle that comes with the kit. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with!

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post #4 of 25 Old 10-11-2019, 02:50 PM
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You can use the standard baffle on a taller cabinet. Build the cabinet about 12" taller than the baffle, glue the baffle up towards the top and then put ports on the 12" section below the baffle. A little bit like the following picture, but I don't like how they made the baffle narrower than the cabinet.


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post #5 of 25 Old 10-11-2019, 03:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
You can use the standard baffle on a taller cabinet. Build the cabinet about 12" taller than the baffle, glue the baffle up towards the top and then put ports on the 12" section below the baffle. A little bit like the following picture, but I don't like how they made the baffle narrower than the cabinet.

Thanks Erich! Would doing two slot ports on the top and bottom be not ideal?
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post #6 of 25 Old 10-11-2019, 03:06 PM - Thread Starter
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I can confirm that Wine for Mac does not run WinISD. I did find this tutorial to help with manually calculating port length:

https://www.jlaudio.com/header/Suppo...e+Ports/287541
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post #7 of 25 Old 10-11-2019, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Maxey View Post
I can confirm that Wine for Mac does not run WinISD. I did find this tutorial to help with manually calculating port length:

https://www.jlaudio.com/header/Suppo...e+Ports/287541
Have you tried Unibox? If your mac runs Excel, you might be able to use this. Not quite as many tools as WinISD, but gives you your box response and some excursion and port velocity info.

http://audio.claub.net/software/kougaard/ubmodel.html
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post #8 of 25 Old 10-11-2019, 03:33 PM
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Here is a picture of what Erich is describing. Built by @Jk7.2 , designed by @eng-399
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post #9 of 25 Old 10-11-2019, 04:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by scottvalentin View Post
Have you tried Unibox? If your mac runs Excel, you might be able to use this. Not quite as many tools as WinISD, but gives you your box response and some excursion and port velocity info.

http://audio.claub.net/software/kougaard/ubmodel.html
Thanks, I'll give that a look.
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post #10 of 25 Old 10-11-2019, 04:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is a picture of what Erich is describing. Built by @Jk7.2 , designed by @eng-399
Thanks, I've read that build thread and maybe I'll end up doing something similar, but I was hoping for 2 ports (for symmetry) tuned to ~45 Hz or so. I don't plan on running them full range, I just want them to have good extension up to 60-80 Hz.
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post #11 of 25 Old 10-11-2019, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Maxey View Post
Thanks, I've read that build thread and maybe I'll end up doing something similar, but I was hoping for 2 ports (for symmetry) tuned to ~45 Hz or so. I don't plan on running them full range, I just want them to have good extension up to 60-80 Hz.
Put a runner in the middle. Or are you saying you want the port(s) in a different location?

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post #12 of 25 Old 10-11-2019, 06:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Put a runner in the middle. Or are you saying you want the port(s) in a different location?
Yea I was thinking one on the top and one on the bottom. I'll make a mock-up soon and post it.
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post #13 of 25 Old 10-11-2019, 07:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Put a runner in the middle. Or are you saying you want the port(s) in a different location?
Here is @baniels design. I plan on doing something similar, but perhaps with slightly different dimensions. I'll draw it up in solidworks but it'll most likely look fairly identical.
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post #14 of 25 Old 10-12-2019, 01:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is a first pass at a design. The box is 47" H x 14.75" W x 16" D. The ports are 2" x 13.25" in cross section and 9" in length, for a tune of roughly 45 Hz if my maths are correct.
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post #15 of 25 Old 10-13-2019, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
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So I was able to find my Windows recovery disk for an old laptop I had put Linux on and I reloaded Windows onto the laptop. So now I have access to WinISD! Huzzah!

The port lengths matched my excel sheet, which is nice, but the additional calculations from WinISD were really helpful. Since I had to look up the parameters for the Delta 12B woofer used in the 1299, I noticed that it doesn't really seem to like low Hz at all (at least from the specs, that is how it appeared to me). Though they rate the speaker for 400W RMS, when used with a vented box at specific tunings, it looks like max power is around 60-100W to avoid over excursion (this is from WinISD AND their own box build spec sheet). According to WinISD, at around 100W you can still get SPL of about 120 dBs from 1 meter away, so it really shouldn't be an issue, it's just an interesting thing to note.

So after all this and playing around with box parameters, I found that the original tuning of 45 Hz seemed to hurt performance compared to a higher tuning of 55 Hz for instance, at least as far as some extension into the lower Hz was concerned. Below are comparisons between the two from WinISD with the only difference being the port tuning (and also obviously the port length). The bold green line is the box tuned to 55 Hz. For graphs that take signal into account, the signal is at 80 W and the SPL is measured at 1 meter. There is also a 2nd order HPF at 60 Hz for both. The HPF at this frequency is needed to keep excursion in check.
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post #16 of 25 Old 10-14-2019, 01:45 PM - Thread Starter
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So it's always good to follow up if things don't seem to make sense. From Erich, the 2.7 mm xmax for the Delta 12B is a bit conservative and these should be able to handle more than that. He recommended a tuning of 40-45 Hz for a 4.5 cuft box. From this info, it's back to the 45 Hz tuning!
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post #17 of 25 Old 10-14-2019, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris Maxey View Post
So it's always good to follow up if things don't seem to make sense. From Erich, the 2.7 mm xmax for the Delta 12B is a bit conservative and these should be able to handle more than that. He recommended a tuning of 40-45 Hz for a 4.5 cuft box. From this info, it's back to the 45 Hz tuning!
My box was designed for about 35 Hz tuning (thanks @eng-399 for the help!). They handle it very well. I've thrown some power to them (Emotiva XPA-7, 300 wpc 2 channel) running full range testing bass songs and they get to moving pretty well. I don't have exact measurements for movement but it is more that 2.7mm xmax. I have no fear running these full range as loud as I can stand even with the bass boosted a bit to fill in the low end. These are pretty solid drivers that will take a beating. Just my .02
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post #18 of 25 Old 10-14-2019, 02:28 PM - Thread Starter
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My box was designed for about 35 Hz tuning (thanks @eng-399 for the help!). They handle it very well. I've thrown some power to them (Emotiva XPA-7, 300 wpc 2 channel) running full range testing bass songs and they get to moving pretty well. I don't have exact measurements for movement but it is more that 2.7mm xmax. I have no fear running these full range as loud as I can stand even with the bass boosted a bit to fill in the low end. These are pretty solid drivers that will take a beating. Just my .02
Thanks! I was sticking too close to the published specs when trying to design a box. Shows my noob status, ha.
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post #19 of 25 Old 10-14-2019, 03:25 PM
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Thanks! I was sticking too close to the published specs when trying to design a box. Shows my noob status, ha.
Hey I don't blame you! I got a lot of help with mine as well, all a learning process

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post #20 of 25 Old 10-15-2019, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris Maxey View Post
Thanks! I was sticking too close to the published specs when trying to design a box. Shows my noob status, ha.


In my sealed configuration I can’t even get my drivers to barely move. They’re hooked up to a Crown 1502. I’ll have to check my MiniDSP, but I think I have them protected with a high pass filter. On top of that they’re crossed over at 80hz for the sub out. I don’t think you need to be concerned about overdriving the drivers. Just make sure they’re protected below the tune and you should be fine.


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post #21 of 25 Old 10-16-2019, 09:50 AM - Thread Starter
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My most recent design thought was making the ports sealable with a panel. This way, with two ports open I'd have a tune of ~45 Hz and with only one port open I'd have a tune of ~32 Hz (or I could go sealed). I figured this would allow me some flexibility and the ability to play around with different port tunings for my own learning's sake.
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post #22 of 25 Old 10-16-2019, 11:02 AM
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My most recent design thought was making the ports sealable with a panel. This way, with two ports open I'd have a tune of ~45 Hz and with only one port open I'd have a tune of ~32 Hz (or I could go sealed). I figured this would allow me some flexibility and the ability to play around with different port tunings for my own learning's sake.
You could also try to do the route that SVS does and cut some foam plugs for the ports. I don't know how "sealed" it makes it, but I'm sure it'd be pretty close if they were decently think (5+ inches maybe?). No panels/screws on the front of the enclosure that way. Just another idea

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post #23 of 25 Old 10-16-2019, 01:34 PM - Thread Starter
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You could also try to do the route that SVS does and cut some foam plugs for the ports. I don't know how "sealed" it makes it, but I'm sure it'd be pretty close if they were decently think (5+ inches maybe?). No panels/screws on the front of the enclosure that way. Just another idea
I keep going back and forth on that method or panels. It'd certainly be easier to make with the plugs, but I'm worried with a big slot port, a foam plug might look kind of odd. I'll have to think about it some more.
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post #24 of 25 Old 10-17-2019, 04:29 AM
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I’ll check winisd with your design to see how everything looks. You can go a little higher with the drivers than 2.7 mm for xmax they have a little more left in them.
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post #25 of 25 Old 10-17-2019, 05:44 AM - Thread Starter
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I’ll check winisd with your design to see how everything looks. You can go a little higher with the drivers than 2.7 mm for xmax they have a little more left in them.
Thanks, that'd be great!
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