Best bass use of space under riser? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 24 Old 10-22-2019, 03:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Best bass use of space under riser?

Hi and thanks for reading!

I have a separate build thread for my HT build, but I thought this would be a better place to solicit specific bass-build device.

I will have a riser on the high side (~18”) that is 12 feet wide and at least 5 feet deep (could easily be more).

There will be a slide-out bed under the riser, utilizing a fair amount of space.

I think 2 x 15 cubes of wasted space on each side of the bed is a waste, so I looked into:
- IB setups (not enough space at all)
- folded tapped horns (not the right dimensions
- modified full Martys.

Any concerns with having a riser suspended over two giant ported subs, assuming it is structurally sound?

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post #2 of 24 Old 10-22-2019, 03:44 PM
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You should check out what @serith is building, a riser with 3x JTR 4000s!
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post58695006
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post #3 of 24 Old 10-22-2019, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlinsley View Post
You should check out what @serith is building, a riser with 3x JTR 4000s!
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post58695006
guilty...

i want more bass than i'll know what to do with and as much seating as possible. this projects solves both.
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post #4 of 24 Old 10-22-2019, 06:12 PM
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15 cubes is a great size for a ported sub. A great fit for a UM18 tuned in the low to mid teens. No structural issues, you can build them plenty solid.

Edit: What are the dimensions of these 15 cf sections? Don't you have a lot more total volume than 30 cf?

Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Fusion-8 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
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post #5 of 24 Old 10-22-2019, 07:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Best bass use of space under riser?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
15 cubes is a great size for a ported sub. A great fit for a UM18 tuned in the low to mid teens. No structural issues, you can build them plenty solid.



Edit: What are the dimensions of these 15 cf sections? Don't you have a lot more total volume than 30 cf?


I haven’t even checked the links yet, but THANK YOU already! I recognize your names from countless threads and appreciate your time.
@aron7awol my riser will have a full sized bed that slides out horizontally on one or two actuators, depending on friction. The front row will be on a mini-BOSS riser, which facilitates the row sliding forward as the bed comes out. Hence- a good amount of volume under the riser will be used up by the mattress, but at least it can double as a bass trap.

On either side of the bed is space (at least 15 ft^2) that I didn’t want waste with fiberglass, and I’m itching to make diy subs.

Also, I figure I can maximize box volume by having the ports double as steps.

(I am kinda insane when it comes to projects that maximize space and, well, learning new skills).

My understanding is I download winisd, check out some driver specs, fill in variables, and automagically get dimensions?

Edit: Just scrolled through the link: @serith , your desire for bass and seating in an otherwise smaller room strikes a chord of both thoughtful engineering and excess with me. Respect
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Last edited by MinHeadroom; 10-22-2019 at 07:49 PM.
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post #6 of 24 Old 10-22-2019, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MinHeadroom View Post
On either side of the bed is space (at least 15 ft^2) that I didn’t want waste with fiberglass, and I’m itching to make diy subs.
Wait, before you said cubic feet, now you're saying square feet? So is it 15sf x 18" height, or 22.5cf?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinHeadroom View Post
Also, I figure I can maximize box volume by having the ports double as steps.
The steps can be ports or part of the enclosure, but yes, don't worry, we won't waste any volume
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinHeadroom View Post
My understanding is I download winisd, check out some driver specs, fill in variables, and automagically get dimensions?
You don't even need to use WinISD at this point. Dimensions don't matter, it's all about volume. Just figure out what dimensions work for you and your space, and then once you figure that out I'll help you optimize the design.
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Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Fusion-8 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4
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post #7 of 24 Old 10-22-2019, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MinHeadroom View Post

Edit: Just scrolled through the link: @serith , your desire for bass and seating in an otherwise smaller room strikes a chord of both thoughtful engineering and excess with me. Respect
i want to want for nothing when i'm done with this project.
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post #8 of 24 Old 10-22-2019, 09:51 PM - Thread Starter
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^ Well put.
I was explaining my endeavors to two friends. They remarked, “No compromises.” My response, “That’s unfortunately not true. I always planned to have an adjoining bathroom, with nothing but a sink, a urinal, and a display above the urinal so I wouldn’t have to hit pause.”

I’ll be at a conference for 5 days, where it will look like I’m taking notes, but actually getting my feet wet modeling my sub-riser.

Stay tuned
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post #9 of 24 Old 10-22-2019, 09:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
Wait, before you said cubic feet, now you're saying square feet? So is it 15sf x 18" height, or 22.5cf?



The steps can be ports or part of the enclosure, but yes, don't worry, we won't waste any volume



You don't even need to use WinISD at this point. Dimensions don't matter, it's all about volume. Just figure out what dimensions work for you and your space, and then once you figure that out I'll help you optimize the design.


Wow! That is exceedingly generous and I am really thankful! I’ll still toy with winisd if for no other reason than curiosity, but your advice is very, very welcome and appreciated.

Oh, and it’s 15 ft^3, i need to be less careless with the third dimension (If it was 15 ft^2 plus depth, I’d be entertaining an IB setup again!)
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post #10 of 24 Old 10-23-2019, 10:55 AM
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I'm intrigued by the bed. Is this a bedroom turned into theater? Or is this incase the movie gets your girlfriend all revved up lol.
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post #11 of 24 Old 10-23-2019, 08:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Ha!

My wife demanded a guest bed. I originally planned for a murphy bed, but realized it was cheaper and easier to have the bed under the riser.

Having the bed and front row slide forward on the actuator is good for three purposes:
a) cool factor
b) my wife and mother (who lives with us) would never do manual labor
c) If I want the front row closer (like if the second row wants to do a full recline), it’s just a button press

I’m a home automation enthusiast, so the bed sliding out MIGHT also correspond with RGBW lights turning red, and MIGHT autoplay a song that makes my wife randy (granted, i have yet to discover this song, but a man can dream).
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post #12 of 24 Old 10-25-2019, 09:35 AM
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That sounds awesome, will be following.

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post #13 of 24 Old 10-25-2019, 12:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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That sounds awesome, will be following.


Thank you! Not much other than basic planning and structural stuff here:

Adult Cave! (but not in a creepy way) 13x16x7.5 ~1800 cubic feet
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post #14 of 24 Old 10-25-2019, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
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I played around with winisd, results to follow. Pardon the poor sketches below.

The idea is to have two separate riser-subs on either side of the main riser.

In the top sketch, I toyed with the idea of placing the port outside of the main cabinet volume, and using the port as a step (the theme here is utilizing space as much as possible.

In the bottom sketch, I considered having the 18” driver facing forward, mainly to mitigate the risk of stepping on it (i know i could place a grate on it, but still). I have no idea how much the L-shaped cabinet is a good or bad idea.

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post #15 of 24 Old 10-25-2019, 12:46 PM
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The L-shape doesn't matter, and you can put the port anywhere you want within that box. If the step isn't the port it will just be box volume instead, so you are utilizing all space either way.
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Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Fusion-8 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4
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post #16 of 24 Old 10-25-2019, 12:49 PM
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Wow that basement is scary, going to be quite a transformation!
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post #17 of 24 Old 10-25-2019, 02:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
The L-shape doesn't matter, and you can put the port anywhere you want within that box. If the step isn't the port it will just be box volume instead, so you are utilizing all space either way.


Awesome, I like both the aesthetics and the functionality of the L-shape better, my thanks!
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post #18 of 24 Old 10-26-2019, 02:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Rookie question: Is the actual volume of speakers like the Dayton UM18-22 listed somewhere? I think I need to account for it ‘s displacement in my model, but it’s not on the spec sheet:
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs...spec-sheet.pdf

I will be pleased if it is considered negligible, but I doubt this
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post #19 of 24 Old 10-26-2019, 02:53 PM
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Best bass use of space under riser?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MinHeadroom View Post
Rookie question: Is the actual volume of speakers like the Dayton UM18-22 listed somewhere? I think I need to account for it ‘s displacement in my model, but it’s not on the spec sheet:
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs...spec-sheet.pdf

I will be pleased if it is considered negligible, but I doubt this


0.25 ft^3 would be my estimate.
Chris


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post #20 of 24 Old 10-28-2019, 11:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Best bass use of space under riser?

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Originally Posted by a77cj7 View Post
0.25 ft^3 would be my estimate.
Chris


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Cool- initial designs and specs pending. It occurred to me- I have enough space to use 3x flared 4” diameter 32” length ports per Parts Express’s recs for a ULF build of the UM18-22 with a 15.5 port tune. The ports can easily run under the stair to the riser. Thoughts on this? Considering drunk adults will be standing on this thing, I gotta over-build the cabinet and keeping the ports non-load-bearing may be a good idea.
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post #21 of 24 Old 10-28-2019, 11:29 AM
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Best bass use of space under riser?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MinHeadroom View Post
Cool- initial designs and specs pending. It occurred to me- I have enough space to use 3x flared 4” diameter 32” length ports per Parts Express’s recs for a ULF build of the UM18-22 with a 15.5 port tune. The ports can easily run under the stair to the riser. Thoughts on this? Considering drunk adults will be standing on this thing, I gotta over-build the cabinet and keeping the ports non-load-bearing may be a good idea.


I like just building a large slot port into the stair. 3x precision port with extensions per side is a bunch of money. 3/4 ply is strong enough for any load it will be subjected to.

Chris

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post #22 of 24 Old 10-28-2019, 03:05 PM - Thread Starter
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I like just building a large slot port into the stair. 3x precision port with extensions per side is a bunch of money. 3/4 ply is strong enough for any load it will be subjected to.

Chris

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Very appreciated, that might be the nudge back towards slot port that I needed- I haven’t looked into pricing yet on 3 giant flared ports, though it’s noteworthy how few I see. I suppose I’ll model a port of similar cross section and volume using winisd- hopefully I’ll ascertain if there is any difference in area over three circles versus one rectangle.
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post #23 of 24 Old 10-28-2019, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
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Very appreciated, that might be the nudge back towards slot port that I needed- I haven’t looked into pricing yet on 3 giant flared ports, though it’s noteworthy how few I see. I suppose I’ll model a port of similar cross section and volume using winisd- hopefully I’ll ascertain if there is any difference in area over three circles versus one rectangle.


The single slot can easily exceed the area of 3 4”. However, you will want to optimize it for length and port velocity.

4” are small ports once dealing with 18” subwoofers. 6” precision ports are common. Other companies make 8” and up.

Chris


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post #24 of 24 Old 10-28-2019, 09:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Slot it is! <<Decided>>
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