do the nx6000 (non-dsp) have turn on thump? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 2Likes
  • 1 Post By LGERIC
  • 1 Post By LGERIC
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 23 Old 10-23-2019, 07:14 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
rr14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 482
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked: 32
do the nx6000 (non-dsp) have turn on thump?

Hi all,

I have one of those power strips that you plug your receiver into and then it was several switched out lets that turn on when you flip on your receiver. With the inuke dsp's, there is a turn off thump. Is this the case also with the non-dsp units when used on one of these power strips?
rr14 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 23 Old 10-23-2019, 08:23 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Houston Area, Texas
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Can't speak with first hand knowledge, but I am certain I read somewhere on here that the nondsp ones do not thump

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
Stephen Cagle is offline  
post #3 of 23 Old 10-24-2019, 09:32 AM
Senior Member
 
ghart999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 343
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 202 Post(s)
Liked: 71
Not sure about the non-dsp. But I use one of those strips with NX6000DSP and there is zero thump.

Audio: Denon AVR-X3400H - Behringer NX6000D | (LCR) DIYSoundGroup Cobalt 8s | (Surrounds )NHT SuperZero 2.1| Subs: Marty cube w/ Ultimax UM18 and (4) JBL CS1214s sealed @ 1.5cf each
Automation: Fire Cube - Harmony Hub- Insteon Plugs - Sensi Thermostat
Video Image: TCL 55S517 - Roku - Fire Cube - Xbox One X
ghart999 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 23 Old 10-24-2019, 03:45 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
kevings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Orange County CA
Posts: 1,301
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 344 Post(s)
Liked: 542
OP,

I'll second what Ghart999 mentioned.....

I've tried a few of the newer generation NX6000's, plugged into smart strips for on/off control, and haven't ever heard a power thump.

(in the past, the power thump was usually associated with DSP versions, and I don't recall ever hearing an instance of a non dsp version power thumping)
kevings is offline  
post #5 of 23 Old 10-24-2019, 04:12 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
smcmillan2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Farmington, MI, USA
Posts: 2,188
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 965 Post(s)
Liked: 825
Is this specific to the 6k? Neither my nu3k nor NX3k (both DSP) exhibit this.

Sub builds: Yet another Infinity 1260 build | Twins! | Modified V.B.S.S. build | UM12-22 builds | AV stand and sealed UM18s

Speaker builds: DIYSG HTM-10 build | DIYSG Volt-6 build | DIYSG Fusion-8 builds
smcmillan2 is online now  
post #6 of 23 Old 10-24-2019, 06:07 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bear123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: PA
Posts: 6,582
Mentioned: 82 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2754 Post(s)
Liked: 4230
I definitely have to grab a good power strip and try this. My Inuke6000dsp had a terrible on/off thump when using a powerstrip so I never did. I bought the relay to wire it up for auto on/off but never got around to wiring it up. If the NX6000D doesn't thump with a power strip that will be awesome.
bear123 is offline  
post #7 of 23 Old 10-25-2019, 12:02 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
zeus33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,179
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1865 Post(s)
Liked: 1934
Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
I definitely have to grab a good power strip and try this.

Just to test it bear, have it on and just pull the power cable out. That's all the strips do, is cut power. If it doesn't thump, you're good.
zeus33 is online now  
post #8 of 23 Old 10-26-2019, 02:24 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 422
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 195 Post(s)
Liked: 72
My 3K~DSP does it.
Remy.Alexander is offline  
post #9 of 23 Old 10-26-2019, 05:12 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
asarose247's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: DIY enabled in SoCal / OC
Posts: 4,468
Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1260 Post(s)
Liked: 1105
along the same lines . . .
before I hooked 3 BASH 300's onto a smart strip, they would just go into stand-by,
always with power and generating heat
but the common issue here now is
the complete cutting off of all power to the amps
and all 3 thump
in 6 years here at AVS, I cannot recall any complaints about plain ol' plate amps

my 2 x 6k's I control manually in my LR.

in the cave, powering up the HTPC as the master on the smart strip fires up the TV, X5200, 3 sub amps, minidsp2x4, a Fury key that splits the video and sudio and a cooler guys fans for the avr
the subs thump even when coming on

so it's the abrupt power cut off

EE's to he rescue?

DIY FAN Denon X4400 , ATI A 2000 for 7.4.6 SCATMOS Sammy 82" 4K/HDR
L/R: Fusion 15 V2 , C: 88 Special , SL/SR: 88 Special(V2) , RL/RR: F-3, TF/TR: Volt 6's TM: SLX, FH: F4Q4
SUBMAXIMUS V2, ,Submaximus V3,LOWARHORNCustom Dual Driver VBSS,2 x 6000DSP
asarose247 is online now  
post #10 of 23 Old 10-27-2019, 12:06 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
BassThatHz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Northern Okan range (NW Cascades region)
Posts: 10,893
Mentioned: 239 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3812 Post(s)
Liked: 4324
I use these. https://www.omega.com/en-us/control-.../p/SSRL660DC50

They are more expensive, but have zero crossing, and no noise or flyback; which helps a lot...

Super simple to wire up.

This is just for path illustration though, don't make a suicide cord, it MUST be properly wired to the BACK of the to->amp wallsocket in a grounded box (or a plastic box).


I'd recommend a metal box big enough to stuff all the wires into it and for heatsinking the relay; and in that case the green ground MUST be attached to the metal box as well for safety reasons (as well as to the frame of all involved wallsocket boxes as-applicable).

make SURE the hot and neutral don't touch anything else!
and make SURE the fuse holder isn't grounded to the case (because it will blow).

NEVER change the fuse when it is plugged in because the fuse holder is HOT (in case that wasn't obvious).
NEVER service it when it is plugged in (in case that wasn't obvious).

When plugged in, consider anything in-line with the hot or neutral wires as HOT, as they are both current-carrying conductors.

Only grounded metal is safe, ungrounded metal is potentially unsafe (and by grounded I mean connected to the main panel ground-neutral bonding jumper and grounding electrode via the "green" ground wire.)

The ground wire only ever carries line-power under an extremely rare/brief fault condition, and since it is bonded to the neutral leg at the mains service panel, the current will return to the breaker via the meter/pole transformer's hot leg, tripping it from excessive current draw beyond its rated value. The mains breaker won't even "care" because it is rated for 100-200A (a much higher trip-value.)

For extra safety GFCI's can be used on both wallsockets.
This way if any of the current from the hot or neutral tries to reach ground via any alternative paths (say: through a person) it will trip at the upstream plug before reaching dangerous levels.

It is recommended to test GFCI's every few months or when they are suspect. Especially in bathrooms, kitchens, but also garages and outdoor plugs too. Basically anywhere humans and water and electricity can come in contact. They should turn off when the test button is pressed. If not, they MUST be replaced with a new one ASAP.

I'd recommend a fuse on each side of the relay just for "extra" safety as well...

The relay is always-hot on the breaker-side, best to unplug it when going on vacations; mostly just for extra safety, there is a few microvolts and microamps of continuous pass-through that doesn't do anything (unless the relay gets hit with a surge when you aren't around).

The same relay can be used for a 15A or 30A wallsocket, with appropriate fuse & wire gauge and plugs/cords.

But if you are gonna push 30A+ through it you might want to buy the heatsink that goes with it.


It has a green LED when it is conducting (i.e. on)
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	SSR.png
Views:	73
Size:	277.2 KB
ID:	2632780   Click image for larger version

Name:	SSR Activated.JPG
Views:	69
Size:	191.9 KB
ID:	2632784   Click image for larger version

Name:	50amp SSR.JPG
Views:	63
Size:	258.4 KB
ID:	2632786  

Last edited by BassThatHz; 10-27-2019 at 01:17 PM.
BassThatHz is offline  
post #11 of 23 Old 10-27-2019, 01:26 PM
Senior Member
 
LGERIC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Macomb, MI
Posts: 214
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 112 Post(s)
Liked: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
I use these. https://www.omega.com/en-us/control-.../p/SSRL660DC50

They are more expensive, but have zero crossing, and no noise or flyback; which helps a lot...

Super simple to wire up.

This is just for path illustration though, don't make a suicide cord, it MUST be properly wired to the BACK of the to->amp wallsocket in a grounded box (or a plastic box).


I'd recommend a metal box big enough to stuff all the wires into it and for heatsinking the relay; and in that case the green ground MUST be attached to the metal box as well for safety reasons (as well as to the frame of all involved wallsocket boxes as-applicable).

make SURE the hot and neutral don't touch anything else!
and make SURE the fuse holder isn't grounded to the case (because it will blow).

NEVER change the fuse when it is plugged in because the fuse holder is HOT (in case that wasn't obvious).
NEVER service it when it is plugged in (in case that wasn't obvious).

When plugged in, consider anything in-line with the hot or neutral wires as HOT, as they are both current-carrying conductors.

Only grounded metal is safe, ungrounded metal is potentially unsafe (and by grounded I mean connected to the main panel ground-neutral bonding jumper and grounding electrode via the "green" ground wire.)

The ground wire only ever carries line-power under an extremely rare/brief fault condition, and since it is bonded to the neutral leg at the mains service panel, the current will return to the breaker via the meter/pole transformer's hot leg, tripping it from excessive current draw beyond its rated value. The mains breaker won't even "care" because it is rated for 100-200A (a much higher trip-value.)

For extra safety GFCI's can be used on both wallsockets.
This way if any of the current from the hot or neutral tries to reach ground via any alternative paths (say: through a person) it will trip at the upstream plug before reaching dangerous levels.

It is recommended to test GFCI's every few months or when they are suspect. Especially in bathrooms, kitchens, but also garages and outdoor plugs too. Basically anywhere humans and water and electricity can come in contact. They should turn off when the test button is pressed. If not, they MUST be replaced with a new one ASAP.

I'd recommend a fuse on each side of the relay just for "extra" safety as well...

The relay is always-hot on the breaker-side, best to unplug it when going on vacations; mostly just for extra safety, there is a few microvolts and microamps of continuous pass-through that doesn't do anything (unless the relay gets hit with a surge when you aren't around).

The same relay can be used for a 15A or 30A wallsocket, with appropriate fuse & wire gauge and plugs/cords.

But if you are gonna push 30A+ through it you might want to buy the heatsink that goes with it.


It has a green LED when it is conducting (i.e. on)
Are you saying a better relay will prevent the thump on inuke 6Kdsp when powering down?
noah katz likes this.
LGERIC is offline  
post #12 of 23 Old 10-27-2019, 01:35 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
BassThatHz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Northern Okan range (NW Cascades region)
Posts: 10,893
Mentioned: 239 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3812 Post(s)
Liked: 4324
If you are wondering, Subpanel neutral aren't re-grounded/bonded because the ground wire isn't supposed to carry operational current; only fault current.

That would also be a massive ground loop, and if the subpanel ground is re-grounded for lightning protection, the power will try to flow through the dirt too (which is ungood.)

Electricity doesn't follow "the path of least resistance", it follows all paths; with the current-flow proportional to the resistance/impedance through that medium/path.

In the case of air, a human or dirt, that value is fairly-high, actually.
Tens of ohms to billions of ohms...
Not much juice flows because the voltage is too low to push enough electrons through it.

When lightning hits an object, that voltage is energized to a very high value.
If that happens to be some dirt, it will kill anything within the voltage gradient radius.
Often killing a circle of animals or sports players.
The same for a high-voltage power line. That's why you shouldn't get out of your car. It will pass from leg to leg through ur balls.

It may even decide to pass through wood instead of air, because it is a better conductor. That's why even people sitting inside their homes have been struct. It flows into their roof, into their wiring, jumps into their bed springs, into them, into the kitchen sink or a nearby lamp pole and into the cement or whatever. At lightning-voltages "anything can happen".

The pole transformers, mains panel and optional-subpanels are earthed to "hopefully" provide those electrons an easier path to take, but the lightning doesn't always listen and takes multiple-paths instead. Silly land-line phone users!
BassThatHz is offline  
post #13 of 23 Old 10-27-2019, 01:50 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
BassThatHz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Northern Okan range (NW Cascades region)
Posts: 10,893
Mentioned: 239 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3812 Post(s)
Liked: 4324
Quote:
Originally Posted by LGERIC View Post
Are you saying a better relay will prevent the thump on inuke 6Kdsp when powering down?
Powering up or down, it will help prevent it.

Because unlike dumb mechanicals it doesn't just abruptly chop off the signal at 120V etc, sending a bunch of flyback power everywhere inside the amp and up the DC path. Instead, it waits for 1/120th of a second to find the next crossing point and gracefully turns it off at 0volts of the 60hz sinewave.

It does the same on power up too, it waits for the proper moment (0volts on/off).

Your electronics will love you a lot more when they don't have to abruptly go squarewave at full line-power.
They may even last longer.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	SSR2.jpg
Views:	56
Size:	14.6 KB
ID:	2632878  

Last edited by BassThatHz; 10-27-2019 at 01:56 PM.
BassThatHz is offline  
post #14 of 23 Old 10-27-2019, 02:05 PM
Senior Member
 
LGERIC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Macomb, MI
Posts: 214
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 112 Post(s)
Liked: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
Powering up or down, it will help prevent it.

Because unlike dumb mechanicals it doesn't just abruptly chop off the signal at 120V etc, sending a bunch of flyback power everywhere inside the amp and up the DC path. Instead, it waits for 1/120th of a second to find the next crossing point and gracefully turns it off at 0volts of the 60hz sinewave.

It does the same on power up too, it waits for the proper moment (0volts on/off).

Your electronics will love you a lot more when they don't have to abruptly go squarewave at full line-power.
They may even last longer.
Makes sense... if it was that simple everyone would do it.

Mabey it is the $$$

I would absolutely spend more money to make it plug and play! I am sure many here would too.
LGERIC is offline  
post #15 of 23 Old 10-31-2019, 06:02 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
BassThatHz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Northern Okan range (NW Cascades region)
Posts: 10,893
Mentioned: 239 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3812 Post(s)
Liked: 4324
Quote:
Originally Posted by LGERIC View Post
Makes sense... if it was that simple everyone would do it.

Mabey it is the $$$

I would absolutely spend more money to make it plug and play! I am sure many here would too.
If they knew about it, and knew how, and it was cheap. Then they might...

If the inukes had a soft-start circuit like the Crown's and FP's, that would be: even better... (But they don't )
BassThatHz is offline  
post #16 of 23 Old 10-31-2019, 10:18 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
noah katz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Mountain View, CA USA
Posts: 23,083
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2144 Post(s)
Liked: 787
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghart999 View Post
Not sure about the non-dsp. But I use one of those strips with NX6000DSP and there is zero thump.

What power strip?

I have a 6000DSP and smart power strip and it thumps loudly at turnoff.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

This is a lot cheaper; any reason not to use it?

https://www.alliedelec.com/product/i...B&gclsrc=aw.ds

I'm thinking the Omega is made for much harsher conditions than ours.

Any reason you didn't use the DC-triggered version? Seems nicer to have less high-voltage wiring.

Also, why would a fuse be needed if it's on a circuit with a 20A breaker?


Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
Powering up or down, it will help prevent it.

"Help prevent it" doesn't sound definitive; do you mean it will still thump sometimes?

Noah

Last edited by noah katz; 11-01-2019 at 12:02 AM.
noah katz is online now  
post #17 of 23 Old 11-02-2019, 09:00 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
BassThatHz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Northern Okan range (NW Cascades region)
Posts: 10,893
Mentioned: 239 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3812 Post(s)
Liked: 4324
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
Any reason you didn't use the DC-triggered version? Seems nicer to have less high-voltage wiring.
huh?
That's what I use, and linked to...

Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
Also, why would a fuse be needed if it's on a circuit with a 20A breaker?
Well, that is what the user manual says. I didn't really question it deeper/deeply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
"Help prevent it" doesn't sound definitive; do you mean it will still thump sometimes?
Murphy's Law, if you say it will, someone will inevitably prove you wrong, or something bad will happen that invalidates everything you thought you fully understood.

At one point we thought there were only 4 elements. They were wrong!
Then they thought there was nothing smaller than an electron or a quark. Both wrong again!
Now they think it is other things (STILL wrong! )

I'm also naturally dark and pessimistic. People see a google assistant, I see an NSA backdoor. People see robotic maids as useful things, I only see nefariously hacked robots and terminators. Why rob a bank when you can have a robot do it for you!!! (SOON... )

The moral of the story is: Never be overly sure of anything...
BassThatHz is offline  
post #18 of 23 Old 11-03-2019, 12:23 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
noah katz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Mountain View, CA USA
Posts: 23,083
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2144 Post(s)
Liked: 787
Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
huh?
That's what I use, and linked to...

Oops, I looked to quickly and just saw it plugged into the power strip and thought it was using 110VAC.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
Murphy's Law, if you say it will, someone will inevitably prove you wrong, or something bad will happen that invalidates everything you thought you fully understood.

Oh ok; IOW, chances are it will work just fine.

Thanks

Noah
noah katz is online now  
post #19 of 23 Old 11-07-2019, 09:27 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
noah katz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Mountain View, CA USA
Posts: 23,083
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2144 Post(s)
Liked: 787
The IDEC SS zero-crossing I ordered on ebay arrived today.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Idec-RSSDN-...72.m2749.l2649

I tried it out and still get the hellacious turn-off thump.

I guess I'll have to wire it to the internal power switch.

Noah
noah katz is online now  
post #20 of 23 Old 11-08-2019, 12:18 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
noah katz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Mountain View, CA USA
Posts: 23,083
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2144 Post(s)
Liked: 787
Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

@BassThatHz

Have you used one on a 6000dsp and did it eliminate the thump?

The brand I got looks almost identical and is spec'd the same, but maybe there's something different about the internal circuitry.

Noah
noah katz is online now  
post #21 of 23 Old 11-08-2019, 07:14 PM
Senior Member
 
LGERIC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Macomb, MI
Posts: 214
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 112 Post(s)
Liked: 41
The Omega I tried still gives the thump too.
noah katz likes this.
LGERIC is offline  
post #22 of 23 Old 11-09-2019, 05:23 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
BassThatHz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Northern Okan range (NW Cascades region)
Posts: 10,893
Mentioned: 239 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3812 Post(s)
Liked: 4324
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
Have you used one on a 6000dsp and did it eliminate the thump?
I tried it on my EP4k, XTI4k, ICE-1k, IT8k, FP14k and FP10k.
None of those produced any thump turning off or on.

I've never owned an inuke, and probably never will.
I thought zero-crossing would help the inuke's problem, but I guess they are even more ape-ish than anticipated.

You could try wiring it to the internal switch...
Also the 50a model can handle 5-10kW RMS between 2-8ohm loads, so theoretically you could even use them to switch the speaker wires prior to cutting the amplifier power, that would definitely kill the thump.

Alternatively, you could just never turn the inukes off. It would only add about $1 per month to your bill to idle them 24/7/365.

Last edited by BassThatHz; 11-09-2019 at 05:27 PM.
BassThatHz is offline  
post #23 of 23 Old 11-09-2019, 09:13 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
noah katz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Mountain View, CA USA
Posts: 23,083
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2144 Post(s)
Liked: 787
Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
You could try wiring it to the internal switch...
Also the 50a model can handle 5-10kW RMS between 2-8ohm loads, so theoretically you could even use them to switch the speaker wires prior to cutting the amplifier power, that would definitely kill the thump.

Alternatively, you could just never turn the inukes off. It would only add about $1 per month to your bill to idle them 24/7/365.

For speaker switching I'd need one for each channel, and some kind of time delay device.

Always on power cost for me would be more like $5/mo, and I wouldn't want the fans running continuously.

Noah
noah katz is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off