will 2 sealed Stereo intregrity 24ht mkiii be enough for me?? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 17 Old 10-29-2019, 06:21 AM - Thread Starter
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will 2 sealed Stereo intregrity 24ht mkiii be enough for me??

I just want to make sure I buy the correct subwoofer (s) and don't want to be left wondering what I'm missing anymore. So I'm ready to spend some money and need to ask are 2 sealed 24ht mkiii enough for my listening habits. 75% movie and tv, 15% games, 10% music. Room is 22x18x10, wood floor. can place 1 subwoofer less than a meter from MLP. other could stack there or be moved elsewhere (I'm the only user of the theater 80% of the time or more). I was thinking of doing sealed as ported is a bit large so both subs could be 8 to 12 cubic foot each depending on which would be best. What I want is about 128db from 20hz to 80hz or somewhere close just so I can listen to refence level in movies with enough room to not distort the bass or damage the subs. The sub 20hz I would like to be 100db or so still, but understand that is the holy grail. Would just 2 24 inch subs do this or do I need a third one (ported)? Trying to keep the budget in 3,000 to 4,000. including the cost to pay somebody to cut or fully build the box (es) for me. I don't have large enough tools / skills to cut this, especially if I put both sealed in a bar build right behind the couch. I have a minidsp 88a for full calibration by dirac if using 1 sub out. I also have a minidsp 24ddrc that I am not currently using that could auto cal 2 separate subs then be plugged into the 88a. I would be glad to offer any more info and take any helpful suggestions.
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post #2 of 17 Old 10-29-2019, 07:38 AM
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If you have to ask, you might want to just get 4. Try using REW room simulator to see if 2 of them sealed will reach your SPL and response goals.
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post #3 of 17 Old 10-29-2019, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
I just want to make sure I buy the correct subwoofer (s) and don't want to be left wondering what I'm missing anymore. So I'm ready to spend some money and need to ask are 2 sealed 24ht mkiii enough for my listening habits. 75% movie and tv, 15% games, 10% music. Room is 22x18x10, wood floor. can place 1 subwoofer less than a meter from MLP. other could stack there or be moved elsewhere (I'm the only user of the theater 80% of the time or more). I was thinking of doing sealed as ported is a bit large so both subs could be 8 to 12 cubic foot each depending on which would be best. What I want is about 128db from 20hz to 80hz or somewhere close just so I can listen to refence level in movies with enough room to not distort the bass or damage the subs. The sub 20hz I would like to be 100db or so still, but understand that is the holy grail. Would just 2 24 inch subs do this or do I need a third one (ported)? Trying to keep the budget in 3,000 to 4,000. including the cost to pay somebody to cut or fully build the box (es) for me. I don't have large enough tools / skills to cut this, especially if I put both sealed in a bar build right behind the couch. I have a minidsp 88a for full calibration by dirac if using 1 sub out. I also have a minidsp 24ddrc that I am not currently using that could auto cal 2 separate subs then be plugged into the 88a. I would be glad to offer any more info and take any helpful suggestions.
If your MLP is along the back wall (sounds like there's a bar so that would mean no) then you should be able to reach 128dB around 20-80Hz. Unfortunately, with the MLP being off the back wall you will have a hard time reaching those levels without four, either corner loaded or with one on each wall centered. Considering your budget, two will likely be more output than you could possibly use for movie watching. A single 24 nearfield would be more than you could handle for anything other than short demos. You can always get more in the future. I have three right now and I can honestly say I probably should have stopped at two. At least I have all the headroom I will ever need now.
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post #4 of 17 Old 10-29-2019, 08:36 AM
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I have 2x in a room 1/2 that size... I could add more....
Guess it depends on how much bass you really feel the need to have....

I like having some headroom for when I get a little crazy with the volume...
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post #5 of 17 Old 10-29-2019, 08:37 AM
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Thats a good size room. I personally would do a ported box to get the most bang for your buck. On average your looking at +6db around tune for a start. The 24's I found for me didnt give ideal placement so I have a mountain of 18's. Cost wise 18s are also more effective as you could get 4 and still be less than 2 24's not to mention you can use inukes with 18's and generally you would need a Clone amp to power the 24's.

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post #6 of 17 Old 10-29-2019, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarponater View Post
If your MLP is along the back wall (sounds like there's a bar so that would mean no) then you should be able to reach 128dB around 20-80Hz. Unfortunately, with the MLP being off the back wall you will have a hard time reaching those levels without four, either corner loaded or with one on each wall centered. Considering your budget, two will likely be more output than you could possibly use for movie watching. A single 24 nearfield would be more than you could handle for anything other than short demos. You can always get more in the future. I have three right now and I can honestly say I probably should have stopped at two. At least I have all the headroom I will ever need now.
I can always rearrange if it means bass heaven haha. Moving the couch to the back wall would work if I can get 125 plus db as my main speakers get to 120db right now and add the bass curve and 128 gets me exactly where I want to be with 20 to 80hz. I saw your build thread on the subs, do you think your 2 sealed subs would have been enough? if I remember correct you did 2 sealed 1 ported. I probably watch movies at 100 to 110 db normally once a week and push the action scenes of a movie to 115 or so once every couple months for big hit movies. The volume keeps going up as I buy better lower THD speakers.
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post #7 of 17 Old 10-29-2019, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uniquepattern View Post
I have 2x in a room 1/2 that size... I could add more....
Guess it depends on how much bass you really feel the need to have....

I like having some headroom for when I get a little crazy with the volume...
Are you disappointed with them? Are you sitting far from them? I would have thought 2 sealed in a room half the size would be almost 130db from 20hz up and hit 100db or more down past 5hz.
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post #8 of 17 Old 10-29-2019, 09:09 AM
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Check his past posts on his subs...he is not disappointed.
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post #9 of 17 Old 10-29-2019, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Are you disappointed with them? Are you sitting far from them? I would have thought 2 sealed in a room half the size would be almost 130db from 20hz up and hit 100db or more down past 5hz.


Just because he wouldn’t mind more doesn’t mean he isn’t satisfied.
There are plenty around here who would prefer subwoofer systems that you physically can’t turn up all the way. Nothing like limitless bass at all frequencies.
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post #10 of 17 Old 10-29-2019, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
I can always rearrange if it means bass heaven haha. Moving the couch to the back wall would work if I can get 125 plus db as my main speakers get to 120db right now and add the bass curve and 128 gets me exactly where I want to be with 20 to 80hz. I saw your build thread on the subs, do you think your 2 sealed subs would have been enough? if I remember correct you did 2 sealed 1 ported. I probably watch movies at 100 to 110 db normally once a week and push the action scenes of a movie to 115 or so once every couple months for big hit movies. The volume keeps going up as I buy better lower THD speakers.
The two back corner subs provide plenty of SPL and tactile. The nearfield just puts the tactile over the top. I have three sealed in my theater. The ported cabinet was built for the living room. I tested it the theater just to see what it was like.

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post #11 of 17 Old 10-29-2019, 12:42 PM
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and I can honestly say I probably should have stopped at two.

Heresy!

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post #12 of 17 Old 10-29-2019, 12:47 PM
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Are you disappointed with them? Are you sitting far from them? I would have thought 2 sealed in a room half the size would be almost 130db from 20hz up and hit 100db or more down past 5hz.
Oh, hahahha....I friggin LOVE my 24's... I just like effortless bass with very little distortion...
And thats what I have...
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post #13 of 17 Old 10-29-2019, 01:13 PM
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I have two Mariana 24" sealed subs which use the 24" SI drivers (not sure if I have the mkii or mkiii) version. Each sub has a built-in SpeakerPower 4000W amp. My room is 22'x15'x8' (about 2/3 the volume of your room) on a suspended wood floor. The subs are located on the mid-front and mid-rear walls. The MLP is about 2/3 between the front and rear walls.

As far as ULF power and extension, two 24" subs are plenty for me. I get plenty of 'warble' and room pressurization if that's what you're looking for. What's lacking for me so far is mid-bass chest slam, but I'm still tweaking my room placement, room treatments, and phase/frequency EQ using a minDSP-HD to tune each sub independently.

IMO, subs at this level are desired not only for low-frequency sonic (SPL) capability, but also for good Tactile Response (TR). I divide TR capability into two general categories which are ULF warble (a steady-state vibration starting at 30Hz going down to single-digit Hz), and slam (a sharp transient impact driven by frequencies around 50-80Hz). In general ULF warble can be generated by sealed subs with large displacement, or ported subs with low-frequency port tunes. A suspended wood floor also helps with ULF warble. If you have a concrete floor, simply adding isolators under your seating will also help (see BOSS link below). Chest slam OTOH is most easily produced by near-field subs (within a foot or two of your listening position), or large diameter subs a few feet away. In either case, careful tuning and time-alignment is needed to achieve good chest slam.

If two 24" subs don't give you enough ULF warble, my recommendation is to add transducers under your seating such as Crowsons, and/or BOSS risers/mini-risers. That way you can get all the ULF movement you can stand without having to crank the subs that could possibly damage your house or hearing, or at the very least, offend neighbors or family members in other rooms.

Hope this helps,
Darrell
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post #14 of 17 Old 10-30-2019, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the input, from what I hear 2 sealed hs24 should be a great starting point especially if I corner load them nearfield sitting along the back wall. No matter what I do this will be a huge upgrade across all bass frequencies. Does anyone know what size box works best 8,9,10,11,12 cubic foot? I know normally a bigger sealed box will give lower extension but seeing blister64's video with 8ft boxes he's already down to 5hz 100 plus db and bottoming out the woofer?? Would it be of any use to go larger like 10cft or would I not gain anything useful and only lower the mid bass max spl.
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post #15 of 17 Old 10-30-2019, 12:22 PM
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will 2 sealed Stereo intregrity 24ht mkiii be enough for me??

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Thanks for all the input, from what I hear 2 sealed hs24 should be a great starting point especially if I corner load them nearfield sitting along the back wall. No matter what I do this will be a huge upgrade across all bass frequencies. Does anyone know what size box works best 8,9,10,11,12 cubic foot? I know normally a bigger sealed box will give lower extension but seeing blister64's video with 8ft boxes he's already down to 5hz 100 plus db and bottoming out the woofer?? Would it be of any use to go larger like 10cft or would I not gain anything useful and only lower the mid bass max spl.


I would suggest modeling to see what will work best for you.

Broad generalizations for sealed boxes:
The larger the box, the less power it takes to drive it at low frequencies. Therefore, large boxes tend to have a more gradual rolloff on the low end.
The mid-bass spl is mostly controlled by amplifier power, not box volume.

Again, those are just generalizations. Model your situation to predict performance.

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Last edited by a77cj7; 10-30-2019 at 12:26 PM.
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post #16 of 17 Old 10-30-2019, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Thanks for all the input, from what I hear 2 sealed hs24 should be a great starting point especially if I corner load them nearfield sitting along the back wall. No matter what I do this will be a huge upgrade across all bass frequencies. Does anyone know what size box works best 8,9,10,11,12 cubic foot? I know normally a bigger sealed box will give lower extension but seeing blister64's video with 8ft boxes he's already down to 5hz 100 plus db and bottoming out the woofer?? Would it be of any use to go larger like 10cft or would I not gain anything useful and only lower the mid bass max spl.
Yea 2 of these are pretty intense. Any more and it's just not making them work as hard with a little extra headroom. I still haven't pushed mine to their full potential. Broke 2 picture frames upstairs as it is But yea I'm sure 2 of these will get you over 100 db as low as 5 hz. I was sitting right around 110-112 db at 7 hz when I did that testing (with 3 total 24s). They never actually bottomed out, but I thought I could hear a little noise from them under 10 hz. You also have a smaller dedicated room than I do with my open basement, so I'm sure you'll be able to get a little better SPL.

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post #17 of 17 Old 10-30-2019, 05:21 PM
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In terms of reaching 1-20hz, 24's are top-notch. Very clean, almost impossible to bottom out or melt etc...

That said:
I couldn't even hear the 24 I added to my room. Not even with 4kW going to it...
In time I will likely be adding another 5 of them, which will probably gain me "maybe" another 3db...

The largest recent improvement for me was going from 50kW to 100kW. That I definitely noticed...
Before I was clipping like crazy, and now I'm afraid to clip it! (and/or can't clip it!)
Excellent Smithers!

I would say two of them is the LEAST you'd want; but maybe that's just me.
Two is probably plenty for a normal person I suppose, but not for a crazy basshead...
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