PSSO QCA-10000 VS LAB GRUPPEN FP 10000q clone - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 13 Old 11-01-2019, 08:17 AM - Thread Starter
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PSSO QCA-10000 VS LAB GRUPPEN FP 10000q clone

reetings to all, I was considering the purchase of a final to drive my subwoofers currently powered by two Yamaha P7000s in bridge, the cheapest choice would be a Lab Gruppen FP 10000q clone which in Italy would cost € 890, the alternative is the PSSO QCA 10000 cost 1050 €, in this case I would have a reliable guarantee, in the case of the Clone FP I would have no guarantee. Compared to the Yamaha P7000 that in bridge gives me 1900 w with the 10000 I would gain over that in power also in quality? with the same power between the two which would be preferred?
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post #2 of 13 Old 11-02-2019, 01:33 AM - Thread Starter
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does anyone know the PSSO QCA 10000?
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post #3 of 13 Old 12-03-2019, 11:29 AM - Thread Starter
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the Sanway FP10000Q costs about $ 790 shipping and miscellaneous expenses including + any customs, on Amazon.it I bought the PSSO QCA-10000 at € 805 all inclusive, product with Amazon warranty, very important for me the right of withdrawal if not satisfied. Do you think this PSSO is also a Lab Gruppen clone? so a product that can be on a par with a Sanway and other Chinese?
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post #4 of 13 Old 12-03-2019, 02:08 PM
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What do you not like about the Yamahas?
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post #5 of 13 Old 12-03-2019, 05:58 PM
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The XBS FP20k is much better than the FP10k.
-3db @ 2.5hz vs 7hz
4kW x 4 vs 2.1kW x 4
Given the difference in price, might as well pay the extra for the 20k.

The 20k is almost two 14k's in one box.
Just don't get the 22k, it's garbage.

As for the Yamaha, no idea...
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post #6 of 13 Old 12-04-2019, 02:15 PM - Thread Starter
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the yamaha p7000 in bridge are 1800 w, they can't get my divers to work at the max, the PSSO is 4200x2 on 8 ohms, I think 2500-3000 w are enough for me
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post #7 of 13 Old 12-04-2019, 02:17 PM - Thread Starter
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the yamaha p7000 but also the P5000 in stereo sound good, even for medium-high frequencies, but on low frequencies I don't think it's the best
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post #8 of 13 Old 12-04-2019, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
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as I said above .. I bought it from Amazon ... if I am not satisfied I give it, in particular I want to try how loud it is, with Chinese sellers I don't think I could make it ...
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post #9 of 13 Old 12-04-2019, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cenlui View Post
the yamaha p7000 in bridge are 1800 w, they can't get my divers to work at the max, the PSSO is 4200x2 on 8 ohms, I think 2500-3000 w are enough for me
The PSSO looks like some type of FP10k clone on the outside.

The FP10k's are "ok" as a subwoofer amp. But they aren't "a great sub-amp" like a FP14k or FP20k is.
I've owned the 10k, 14k and 20k for years... so I know what I'm talking about.

I don't like the dip switches on the PSSO, they don't have as many options as the FP clones from Sanway or Smiths or XBS; which makes me wonder what other features they removed or cut corners on...

Also keep in mind that all of these FP amplifiers are burst amplifiers.
A 15a 240V circuit will not pass much more than 1800w x2 for more than a number of seconds before popping, 1 minute at-most; and that's assuming the amplifier can sustain that without overheating.

The rely on large internal capacitor banks and over-current burst trip-curves to achieve such figures.
Old iron Class-H amps are like 45% efficient and are heavy, so they are more like space heaters than amplifiers, and nearly impossible to find much-above 4-5kW bridged into mono because of the waste-power.

If it is any consolation the XBS FP20k is 8000w x2 @ 8ohms (also burst), and that will definitely be more than the subwoofers can tolerate. Many people are powering quad 24's or octal 18's with a single FP20k, it has the power, and it's flat to 2hz and 90's efficient.
(A pair of FP14k is even more powerful yet.)

The PSSO is completely uncharted waters. Any pictures of the guts of it?

Last edited by BassThatHz; 12-04-2019 at 07:49 PM.
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post #10 of 13 Old 12-04-2019, 08:13 PM
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Most pro amplifiers are geared for live-music into high-efficiency speakers.

Burst figures works great for such environments, 2kW RMS with bursts of 14kW etc.
This allows a great deal of output while not clipping the signals EVER when those guitar rifts, double-bass drumming, shouting or song climaxes occur, without wasting 65% as heat or overheating the "space-heaters".

Most music has a 10-20db crest factor... that is to say, the peak is 10-100x higher-intensity than the average-power; the burst amplifiers take advantage of that...

Old-iron amps have very limited burst-power, they are all RMS and nothing beyond the rating, which is great if you using sinewaves to heat up the voicecoils for days (while also heating up the room greatly.)
Bass-cannon dubstep into an array of subwoofers type-idea.

Burst-amplifiers excel at movie explosions and rock/metal/dance music. Anything that needs bursts of 14kW's from 2hz to 1000hz (and a few kW flat out to 20khz).

In actual use, 4-5kW burst is a LOT of power, more than what most speakers or subs can handle without bottoming or melting.

There are a few exceptionally-beefy speakers and subs that can handle that / need it... and for those there is the 14kW bridged mode, or better-yet a bridged PowerSoft K20!

Last edited by BassThatHz; 12-04-2019 at 08:17 PM.
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post #11 of 13 Old 12-05-2019, 10:34 AM - Thread Starter
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amplifier arrived and immediately installed, I immediately noticed a more pumped, tough, deeper bass. I thought I should have attenuated the input signal on the PSSO 10000, instead my divers didn't suck it all up, I even came to see the led that signals the clip on, but no distortion ... I had the impression that I could raise again the volume, do you think when you turn on the LEDs you have to stop or can you still turn up?
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post #12 of 13 Old 12-05-2019, 01:10 PM
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It's likely soft limiting. You should not raise the gain if you're clipping.
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post #13 of 13 Old 12-05-2019, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cenlui View Post
amplifier arrived and immediately installed, I immediately noticed a more pumped, tough, deeper bass. I thought I should have attenuated the input signal on the PSSO 10000, instead my divers didn't suck it all up, I even came to see the led that signals the clip on, but no distortion ... I had the impression that I could raise again the volume, do you think when you turn on the LEDs you have to stop or can you still turn up?
If the limiters aren't set to maximum and it is clipping, then set them to maximum.
If they already are at max, more wattage will not be produced by cranking things higher, all you'd get is more distortion and potentially a dead sub or dead amplifier.

Sounds like you need to upgrade to the FP20k or FP14k, as the 10k doesn't seem to be enough power for your application.

21's, 24's and higher-end 18's can consume all the power the 10k has, and still needs more to reach their maximum potential. This is not uncommon to see, and possibly even well-known at this point.

Ideally you'd have 10db of average-headroom to allow for climaxes in songs/movies, 3db headroom at the absolute minimum.

It's good news that it wasn't DOA and hasn't blown up (yet), I suppose... hehe!

The 10k was really intended for speakers, not subs.
But it CAN be used for that, watts are watts.

As I mentioned already, the 20k and 14k has double the power per-channel and 5hz deeper extension too!

Double the power is about a 40% increase in excursion and 4-8x increase in coil-heat, give or take...

If you want to play it safe, you could get one 14k, and if 4.4kW x2 still isn't enough you could get another one and bridge them for 14kW x2. That should definitely be too much... (Too-much is almost-enough! )
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