Dual Devastator micro build - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #121 of 167 Old 11-28-2019, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Jk7.2 View Post
By tomorrow my friend. I neglected to order speakon connectors for the boxes, and they will be here tomorrow. I wish I had the patience of Mike, so I could take another week and fill screw holes, sand, roundover, prime and paint these. They would look so sweet with the @eng-399 treatment.

WHAAAT? I expected listening impressions by now.

It was quite painful waiting to fire mine up till I had the finish done. I just knew I didn’t want to move them twice.

Chris
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post #122 of 167 Old 11-29-2019, 01:48 PM - Thread Starter
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WHAAAT? I expected listening impressions by now.

It was quite painful waiting to fire mine up till I had the finish done. I just knew I didn’t want to move them twice.

Chris


For me, the pain is waiting to fire these up in the theater until I know I have hours to set them up. Meaning, I have to low pass the hst’s, low pass and highpass the devastators, and try to guess what gain and level to set the things at, so I’m nervously awaiting that time.
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post #123 of 167 Old 11-29-2019, 03:30 PM
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You could have these both dialled in by the time the speakons arrive so we all expect some impression by tomorrow night at the latest or even tonight if you were Jeremy lol


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post #124 of 167 Old 11-30-2019, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
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They are done. I need to pull wire for them, and run a wire from the 10x10 to the amp, and start tuning. I hope these are exactly what my system is missing. Or was anyway. This is a temporary placement. If they earn their way into my system for good, they will be moved behind the screen. That’s gonna take some tweaking to my false wall.
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post #125 of 167 Old 11-30-2019, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Jk7.2 View Post
They are done. I need to pull wire for them, and run a wire from the 10x10 to the amp, and start tuning. I hope these are exactly what my system is missing. Or was anyway. This is a temporary placement. If they earn their way into my system for good, they will be moved behind the screen. That’s gonna take some tweaking to my false wall.


Even the micro’s don’t look small in-room.

Chris
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post #126 of 167 Old 11-30-2019, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jk7.2 View Post
They are done. I need to pull wire for them, and run a wire from the 10x10 to the amp, and start tuning. I hope these are exactly what my system is missing. Or was anyway. This is a temporary placement. If they earn their way into my system for good, they will be moved behind the screen. That’s gonna take some tweaking to my false wall.
They look awesome even without the paint!
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You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
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post #127 of 167 Old 11-30-2019, 01:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Even the micro’s don’t look small in-room.

Chris


These aren’t small! But way smaller then the full size devastators. I do wish I could fit the big ones. This will be fun though, getting everything to play nice.
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post #128 of 167 Old 11-30-2019, 01:32 PM - Thread Starter
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They look awesome even without the paint!


Thanks! I do plan on a nice duratex finish. Maybe even sprayed. I know they will sound better then they look!
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post #129 of 167 Old 11-30-2019, 02:29 PM
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Thanks! I do plan on a nice duratex finish. Maybe even sprayed. I know they will sound better then they look!

I love duratex, but is it worth the trouble if you’re putting them behind the screen?

Can’t wait to hear your impressions, since you’re the first to build micro’s.

Chris
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post #130 of 167 Old 11-30-2019, 03:12 PM - Thread Starter
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I love duratex, but is it worth the trouble if you’re putting them behind the screen?

Can’t wait to hear your impressions, since you’re the first to build micro’s.

Chris


I will take some good measurements too. Short of dragging one of these outside, I’ll take a few close measurements.
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post #131 of 167 Old 11-30-2019, 03:15 PM
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I will take some good measurements too. Short of dragging one of these outside, I’ll take a few close measurements.


Thats what I did. Centered the mic on the board between the port and resonator. Showed a close match to model on my mini’s.

Taking one outside didn’t sound fun.

Chris
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post #132 of 167 Old 11-30-2019, 06:13 PM
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looks like room for 2 more!
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post #133 of 167 Old 12-01-2019, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Well I got them hooked up! After an hour of frustration. They work. This is what happened. When I opened the MiniDSP 10x10 software, I clicked one too many times, and actually opened 2 dsp windows, so when I tried to route the sub input to the devastators output, it wouldn’t take. Although every other function worked. Such as muting the other subs, it all reacted in real time. But long story short, I had to close all windows and reopen the dsp. Then all’s well. But I burned a lot of time messing with that. Anyway, these are going to be a lot of fun. I’m somewhat noise restricted this morning, so I couldn’t let them really rip, but I can already tell at -20 volume, they are intense. Much more to come, but that’s my update for now. Any suggestions on the right path to take with eq and integration, feel free. I’m just gonna shoot from the hip with measurements and delays and level adjustments.
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post #134 of 167 Old 12-01-2019, 09:41 AM
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I knew you couldn’t wait lol congrats I think you will be very happy with the outcome of these


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post #135 of 167 Old 12-01-2019, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Jk7.2 View Post
Well I got them hooked up! After an hour of frustration. They work. This is what happened. When I opened the MiniDSP 10x10 software, I clicked one too many times, and actually opened 2 dsp windows, so when I tried to route the sub input to the devastators output, it wouldn’t take. Although every other function worked. Such as muting the other subs, it all reacted in real time. But long story short, I had to close all windows and reopen the dsp. Then all’s well. But I burned a lot of time messing with that. Anyway, these are going to be a lot of fun. I’m somewhat noise restricted this morning, so I couldn’t let them really rip, but I can already tell at -20 volume, they are intense. Much more to come, but that’s my update for now. Any suggestions on the right path to take with eq and integration, feel free. I’m just gonna shoot from the hip with measurements and delays and level adjustments.

I’d shut the nearfield down and play with the two way with micro’s and HST’s. See if overlap works, what crossover you like, etc. Then go from there on adding the nearfield back in.

Chris
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post #136 of 167 Old 12-01-2019, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
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I’d shut the nearfield down and play with the two way with micro’s and HST’s. See if overlap works, what crossover you like, etc. Then go from there on adding the nearfield back in.

Chris


Interesting. I also have the rear subs to mess with. I was hoping that I could keep all the work I’ve done so far, and just roll the fronts off at 60, and set delays for the devastators so they are additive. I hope I don’t have to completely redo the delay and eq for the front, rear, and nearfield subs. But I’ll have to measure and see what happens. Out of curiosity, why can’t the hst’s and devastators overlap? Why the highpass/low pass situation? Is it phase related?
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post #137 of 167 Old 12-01-2019, 10:14 AM
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Dual Devastator micro build

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Interesting. I also have the rear subs to mess with. I was hoping that I could keep all the work I’ve done so far, and just roll the fronts off at 60, and set delays for the devastators so they are additive. I hope I don’t have to completely redo the delay and eq for the front, rear, and nearfield subs. But I’ll have to measure and see what happens. Out of curiosity, why can’t the hst’s and devastators overlap? Why the highpass/low pass situation? Is it phase related?

I thought @Red Five and I warned you about the potential phasing issues early on. You’re the first one to build them, so its all theoretical for now.

The micro is effectively a ported box with a 53hz tune on the back end. Therefor, its likely to experience cancellation near port tuning with your other woofers.

By throwing a HPF at 60-70hz on the micro’s, you should be able to avoid this issue. Measure and see how low you can run it.

I forgot you had rears. I’d shut those down initially as well. I’d start just trying to integrate the mini’s with the front hst’s, just to eliminate variables. You don’t need to mess with the settings on the HST’s, so it shouldn’t mess with the rest of your system overall.

If you can get the mini’s to play well, just turn the rear and nearfield back on and adjust global eq to taste.

Chris
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post #138 of 167 Old 12-01-2019, 10:34 AM - Thread Starter
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I thought @Red Five and I warned you about the potential phasing issues early on. You’re the first one to build them, so its all theoretical for now.

The micro is effectively a ported box with a 53hz tune on the back end. Therefor, its likely to experience cancellation near port tuning with your other woofers.

By throwing a HPF at 60-70hz on the micro’s, you should be able to avoid this issue. Measure and see how low you can run it.

I forgot you had rears. I’d shut those down initially as well. I’d start just trying to integrate the mini’s with the front hst’s, just to eliminate variables. You don’t need to mess with the settings on the HST’s, so it shouldn’t mess with the rest of your system overall.

If you can get the mini’s to play well, just turn the rear and nearfield back on and adjust global eq to taste.

Chris


Yes, you let me know. I’m just asking to try and understand why. That’s all.

Ok, thanks for the advise. As soon as I can get some time to really play with this, I will do exactly what you suggested.
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post #139 of 167 Old 12-01-2019, 10:41 AM
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Yes, you let me know. I’m just asking to try and understand why. That’s all.

Ok, thanks for the advise. As soon as I can get some time to really play with this, I will do exactly what you suggested.

No worries dude, was just hoping we did without looking back through old posts. I feel bad if I saw a potential issue early on but didn’t warn you.

Can’t wait to hear your results. Hopefully the mini’s will make a killer system even better.

I forgot to mention, you will want to watch for cancellation when you add the rear and nearfield back in. Especially if you’re throwing a LPF on the HST’s, effectively making the front setup a two way system.

Chris
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post #140 of 167 Old 12-01-2019, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
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No worries dude, was just hoping we did without looking back through old posts. I feel bad if I saw a potential issue early on but didn’t warn you.

Can’t wait to hear your results. Hopefully the mini’s will make a killer system even better.

I forgot to mention, you will want to watch for cancellation when you add the rear and nearfield back in. Especially if you’re throwing a LPF on the HST’s, effectively making the front setup a two way system.

Chris


Will do. I’ll take the standard sweep with each addition of sub groups again, just to be safe. Thanks for the help.
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post #141 of 167 Old 12-01-2019, 02:34 PM
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The main thing to watch for is cancellation. The ports on the Micros will be 180 degress out of phase with the HSTs somewhere in the HSTs passband. Add one thing in at a time, make sure each piece is adding a positive summation.

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The main thing to watch for is cancellation. The ports on the Micros will be 180 degress out of phase with the HSTs somewhere in the HSTs passband. Add one thing in at a time, make sure each piece is adding a positive summation.


Ok that all lines up with what I was thinking. Thanks.
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post #143 of 167 Old 12-04-2019, 04:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Welp, I’m happy. I have the devastators hooked up, as you know, and all I’ve done so far is set amp gain close to what it is for the hst’s, and turned it up to reference! I have master and commander cannon scene under my belt. I under estimated what these subs would add to my system. The impact was incredible. I have a lot of work to do with eq, but so far I can say these are awesome. I know the particle accelerator measurement was a thing or what it’s called I don’t remember, but I could feel it. Standing 4’ in front of one of these, I felt things I never had before through my work boots. Lol and I haven’t even high passed them, I don’t know how the driver survives with that much power and no high pass. Sturdy little things. Those Lavoce 15’s moved a max of about 1/2” judging by what my finger felt through the port, but the output was insane. That’s all for now. My boy took over the theater for games. Lol
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Welp, I’m happy. I have the devastators hooked up, as you know, and all I’ve done so far is set amp gain close to what it is for the hst’s, and turned it up to reference! I have master and commander cannon scene under my belt. I under estimated what these subs would add to my system. The impact was incredible. I have a lot of work to do with eq, but so far I can say these are awesome. I know the particle accelerator measurement was a thing or what it’s called I don’t remember, but I could feel it. Standing 4’ in front of one of these, I felt things I never had before through my work boots. Lol and I haven’t even high passed them, I don’t know how the driver survives with that much power and no high pass. Sturdy little things. Those Lavoce 15’s moved a max of about 1/2” judging by what my finger felt through the port, but the output was insane. That’s all for now. My boy took over the theater for games. Lol
I'll check back with you on these after you've come down a bit...
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post #145 of 167 Old 12-04-2019, 06:02 PM - Thread Starter
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I'll check back with you on these after you've come down a bit...


Yeah, I know. Everyone is excited about new stuff. I was just explaining it to Jeremy. These are the real deal. The devastators in his room did way more then I thought they would. And mine did too. They are impressive. I almost wanted to cover my ears a couple times. They will be less raw spl once EQ’d, but I can’t wait to measure these and post some graphs. I’m positive the graphs will show what I’m experiencing.
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You are motivating me to keep refining the full range version of this box This is where I am at with it right now, 1200 watts 19Hz 3rd order HPF. It is up 1.5 cuft to support the lower tune or 9 cuft external volume. The 20Hz mark is getting pretty close to a Mini running a strong 18".



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You are motivating me to keep refining the full range version of this box This is where I am at with it right now, 1200 watts 19Hz 3rd order HPF. It is up 1.5 cuft to support the lower tune or 9 cuft external volume. The 20Hz mark is getting pretty close to a Mini running a strong 18".





What driver is modeled there? I could fit 4 of these where my hst’s currently are.
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What driver is modeled there? I could fit 4 of these where my hst’s currently are.

It is still the WAF 154.00. That is pushing 18mm of excursion, I think I calculated 2/3 gap at 18.3mm on that sub (18.4mm, just checked the spec sheet). That sub is a little beast!


Edit: I would probably suggest a 1000 watts for a power target. The port starts compressing from the looks of the sim with 1200 watts. You lose about .9db dropping 200 watts and excursion is down to 16mm. 1200 watts would be a peak output target.

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Quote:
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It is still the WAF 154.00. That is pushing 18mm of excursion, I think I calculated 2/3 gap at 18.3mm on that sub (18.4mm, just checked the spec sheet). That sub is a little beast!


Edit: I would probably suggest a 1000 watts for a power target. The port starts compressing from the looks of the sim with 1200 watts. You lose about .9db dropping 200 watts and excursion is down to 16mm. 1200 watts would be a peak output target.


It is! I’m suprised how hard I can push it. Even free air, I had them going pretty good and never got into scary excursion, no highpass. They are loud in these cabs for sure. Stay tuned for eq measurements.....
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So, I added a 50hz highpass. Cranked it a bit and it’s insane. These 2 little 15’s have completely changed my system. I am tapping out now on scenes I’d never have before. For example- flight of the Phoenix barrel roll scene is crazy nuts now. I know I seem like an excited kid with a new toy, so I’ll have to let one of the local boys come by and give their thoughts. I still haven’t done any measurements, just waiting for time. But I’m so happy. Never has such a simple addition made this kind of impact.
kevings, mcallister, femi and 2 others like this.
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