GSG Devastator Build and Integration with Mini Marty’s - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 40 Old 11-03-2019, 03:52 PM - Thread Starter
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GSG Devastator Build and Integration with Mini Marty’s

I’ve got a crazy bad room for bass. It’s large, oddly shaped, and on concrete, and just seems to eat whatever bass I throw at it. There’s no location in the room that doesn’t graph like a roller coaster, with 10-20 dB swings between deep nulls and high peaks. When I do find spots that compliment each other I can get relatively flat, but the magnitude of the swings result in very little summation. I finally got close to what I was looking for with four um18-22 mini Marty’s, but was spending too much time in the red light district (and ended up monitoring clip lights more than enjoying bass heavy scenes). After talking with the geniuses at GSG John suggested, if I was going to add to the system, some Devastators would be a good addition and would integrate well.

Why GSG and not a from scratch build? Because they’re everything I like about sub building and nothing I don’t. I can build anything, but I really don’t enjoy all the sanding, material removal, and fitting. Especially the bracing! To get them to fit perfectly takes me forever. But I love assembling and finishing, so GSG is a great fit for me.

I’ll upload some build pics in the next post.
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SPEAKERS: 3 x DIYSG 1099's LCR; DIYSG HTM 6's and 8's surround; 4 x RSL C34E's atmos.
SUBS: 4 x UM18-22 Mini Marty's and 2 x 21DS114-4 Devastators
SIGNAL CHAIN: Denon X4400; Minidsp 2x4 HD; 2 x Jensen Iso Sub 2RX; 3 x NX6000d.
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post #2 of 40 Old 11-03-2019, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
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I'vs already got a TON of clamps, but a few additions really came in handy on this build. I got some 60" harbor freight bar clamps ($10 with coupon) that were a huge help:

https://www.harborfreight.com/hand-t...amp-60673.html

And a band clamp was the only way I was able to get acceptable pressure on that middle baffle. Worth every bit of $6:

https://www.harborfreight.com/1-inch...amp-66220.html

You can see them in use here (disobedient background animal not included):












John and Kevin originally suggested the LaVoce driver, but they were out of stock at the time I ordered. I picked up the 21DS115-4's instead (another great thing about GSG, they're a one-stop sub shop. You can grab boxes, drivers, and amps and have them all shipped on the same pallet.

The boxes went together without a hitch, and they were a very fun build. I did find that my usual sub driver screws, #6 drywall screws, were too small for the attachment holes on these. I ended up using Teks #8 1 5/8 sharp point lath screws. They have a wide, low profile head and grabbed these drivers very well. I am curious though what guys who've installed these drives have ended up using for attachment screws?

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SPEAKERS: 3 x DIYSG 1099's LCR; DIYSG HTM 6's and 8's surround; 4 x RSL C34E's atmos.
SUBS: 4 x UM18-22 Mini Marty's and 2 x 21DS114-4 Devastators
SIGNAL CHAIN: Denon X4400; Minidsp 2x4 HD; 2 x Jensen Iso Sub 2RX; 3 x NX6000d.

Last edited by lawdogx; 11-04-2019 at 11:57 AM.
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post #3 of 40 Old 11-03-2019, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdogx View Post
I’ve got a crazy bad room for bass. It’s large, oddly shaped, and on concrete


Looking forward to the build progress.
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post #4 of 40 Old 11-03-2019, 04:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Just a quick reality check on the scale of the speakers we see talked about frequently here in the DIY forums. The dimensions are everywhere, but you don't realize how differently sized these subs are until you see them next to each other. This is a VBSS next to a mini Marty:



And this is the same mini Marty next to a Devastator:



I read where folks refer to the V1 Devastator as the "little one" and chuckle. There may be bigger versions, but the Devastator is a large sub!
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SPEAKERS: 3 x DIYSG 1099's LCR; DIYSG HTM 6's and 8's surround; 4 x RSL C34E's atmos.
SUBS: 4 x UM18-22 Mini Marty's and 2 x 21DS114-4 Devastators
SIGNAL CHAIN: Denon X4400; Minidsp 2x4 HD; 2 x Jensen Iso Sub 2RX; 3 x NX6000d.

Last edited by lawdogx; 11-04-2019 at 10:18 AM.
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post #5 of 40 Old 11-03-2019, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdogx View Post
I'vs already got a TON of clamps, but a few additions really came in handy on this build. I got some 60" harbor freight bar clamps ($10 with coupon) that were a huge help:

https://www.harborfreight.com/hand-t...amp-60673.html

And a band clamp was the only way I was able to get acceptable pressure on that middle baffle. Worth every bit of $6:

https://www.harborfreight.com/1-inch...amp-66220.html

You can see them in use here (disobedient background animal not included):











John and Kevin originally suggested the LaVoce driver, but they were out of stock at the time I ordered. I picked up the 21DS115-4's instead (another great thing about GSG, they're a one-stop sub shop. You can grab boxes, drivers, and amps and have them all shipped on the same pallet.

The boxes went together without a hitch, and they were a very fun build. I did find that my usual sub driver screws, #6 drywall screws, were too small for the attachment holes on these. I ended up using Teks #8 1 5/8 sharp point lath screws. They have a wide, low profile head and grabbed these drivers very well. I am curious though what guys who've installed these drives have ended up using for attachment screws?



I'm looking to place my order for two Devastor's this will be my first time building anything how many clamps's & what sizes i need to get from Harbor freight that will get the job done.

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post #6 of 40 Old 11-04-2019, 07:53 AM
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looking real good..would love to hear those devastators..

@biliam1982 you should check those out.


Chad
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post #7 of 40 Old 11-04-2019, 08:51 AM
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Awesome comparison for scale. Thanks for including that.
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post #8 of 40 Old 11-04-2019, 09:45 AM
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Looking awesome so far.

Really curious how the integration will go after my sealed to dev integration issues.

Will you post up some measurement sweeps once you get it playing well?

Thanks,
Chris


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post #9 of 40 Old 11-04-2019, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdogx View Post
I am curious though what guys who've installed these drives have ended up using for attachment screws?



I used 1/4 20 cap screws with the 6 prong tnuts PE sells sunk into plywood blocks glued (PL3) to the back of the MDF.
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post #10 of 40 Old 11-04-2019, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexgen76 View Post
I'm looking to place my order for two Devastor's this will be my first time building anything how many clamps's & what sizes i need to get from Harbor freight that will get the job done.
You're asking the wrong guy as I overdo clamping and sealing corners on all my builds. It also depends on how you build. I like to do one step then let it cure overnight before unclamping and moving to the next step. And, I have enough clamps to have two sub builds going at once. Assuming you're doing one sub at a time and one step at a time, I'd feel comfortable with:

2-4 60" bar clamps

2 48" bar clamps

4 36" ratcheting clamps

4 24" ratcheting clamps

4 12" ratcheting clamps

1 band clamp

It reads like a lot, but the whole lot should be like $90. Google "harbor freight coupon database" and you'll find all of these for between $5 and $10 each. Screenshot the coupons and they scan them right off your phone … Or you can do what I did and buy a few clamps, realize you don't have enough, go back and buy a few more, and continue going through that process a half dozen times, lol

Also, you'll need 2 chisels to clean up the pl3. One broad one for edges, and one narrow one for cleaning up the insides of the dadoes.
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SPEAKERS: 3 x DIYSG 1099's LCR; DIYSG HTM 6's and 8's surround; 4 x RSL C34E's atmos.
SUBS: 4 x UM18-22 Mini Marty's and 2 x 21DS114-4 Devastators
SIGNAL CHAIN: Denon X4400; Minidsp 2x4 HD; 2 x Jensen Iso Sub 2RX; 3 x NX6000d.
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post #11 of 40 Old 11-04-2019, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Looking awesome so far.

Really curious how the integration will go after my sealed to dev integration issues.

Will you post up some measurement sweeps once you get it playing well?

Thanks,
Chris


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I moved them in over the weekend. I stacked the mini marty's vertically in the front corners and put the devas in the rear corners. After adding the requisite HPF and EQ to the devas (20 hz, +12, .7 Q, and -12 gain adjustment) I did a quick and dirty gain match, timing, and integration yesterday (ran all subs through a single sub feed from my receiver through a minidsp 2x4hd, with each pair of subs off three different minidsp outs). Why only quick and dirty? Because I'm not sure if my sub locations are going to be final, I'm not sure where the problem areas are going to be in the overall response that I will pay attention to in final timing decisions, and I like to let pro drivers break in for a while before I go too crazy dialing them in. I ran each pair off an NX6000d.

I'll post some REW graphs later but can answer bottom line questions now. First, they integrate with mini marty's perfectly, with all subs running full range. I had previously had an impossible time trying to integrate 31hz tuned VBSS's with 18HZ tuned mini marty's. Nothing I did short of splitting my bass signal in half got those two to play together without significant destruction at some point or another. Marty's and Devas, however, were a cinch. They're both ported subs with near identical port tunes and they add in without any issue whatsoever.

Second, while it's a bit early to make definitive judgments, my first impression is that they add a substantial amount of output. With four mini marty's I would get very good bass output, but I was riding the red light to get it. Last night I watched Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom (with BEQ) and the subs definitely delivered the goods. Much greater output than the four mini marty's alone, and I never got past the second green light. Phrased differently, I could reach the limits of my prior set up. Last night was the first time I watched an entire bass heavy movie, had all the bass output I could want (or tolerate!), and never came close to topping out my system. Time will tell, but my first impression is very positive.
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SPEAKERS: 3 x DIYSG 1099's LCR; DIYSG HTM 6's and 8's surround; 4 x RSL C34E's atmos.
SUBS: 4 x UM18-22 Mini Marty's and 2 x 21DS114-4 Devastators
SIGNAL CHAIN: Denon X4400; Minidsp 2x4 HD; 2 x Jensen Iso Sub 2RX; 3 x NX6000d.
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post #12 of 40 Old 11-04-2019, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdogx View Post
I moved them in over the weekend. I stacked the mini marty's vertically in the front corners and put the devas in the rear corners. After adding the requisite HPF and EQ to the devas (20 hz, +12, .7 Q, and -12 gain adjustment) I did a quick and dirty gain match, timing, and integration yesterday (ran all subs through a single sub feed from my receiver through a minidsp 2x4hd, with each pair of subs off three different minidsp outs). Why only quick and dirty? Because I'm not sure if my sub locations are going to be final, I'm not sure where the problem areas are going to be in the overall response that I will pay attention to in final timing decisions, and I like to let pro drivers break in for a while before I go too crazy dialing them in. I ran each pair off an NX6000d.



I'll post some REW graphs later but can answer bottom line questions now. First, they integrate with mini marty's perfectly, with all subs running full range. I had previously had an impossible time trying to integrate 31hz tuned VBSS's with 18HZ tuned mini marty's. Nothing I did short of splitting my bass signal in half got those two to play together without significant destruction at some point or another. Marty's and Devas, however, were a cinch. They're both ported subs with near identical port tunes and they add in without any issue whatsoever.



Second, while it's a bit early to make definitive judgments, my first impression is that they add a substantial amount of output. With four mini marty's I would get very good bass output, but I was riding the red light to get it. Last night I watched Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom (with BEQ) and the subs definitely delivered the goods. Much greater output than the four mini marty's alone, and I never got past the second green light. Phrased differently, I could reach the limits of my prior set up. Last night was the first time I watched an entire bass heavy movie, had all the bass output I could want (or tolerate!), and never came close to topping out my system. Time will tell, but my first impression is very positive.

Awesome. Sounds like you ended up with a great setup. Effectively limitless bass is an awesome end goal.

If you could post up rew graphs showing just the marty’s, just the dev’s, and the combination of both, that would be awesome. That shows the integration of the subs without worrying about actual room response.

Thanks,
Chris


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post #13 of 40 Old 11-05-2019, 02:15 PM
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Your build thread has been added to the Devastator Index
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Stormbreaker | WI HT Meet Thread | The Devastator Index | Mini Devastator Build
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
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post #14 of 40 Old 11-05-2019, 04:11 PM
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I recently put in a pair of Full Marty 21"subs. I thought I couldn't fit the Devas in but after building and placing the Full Marty's it turns out they would fit with an inch to spare up front. Too late now but it nags at me a bit. Great looking build.
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post #15 of 40 Old 11-06-2019, 12:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quick mid-week update, the plan is to do some more experimenting with locations this weekend and then dial them in next week. Current location (stacked marty's in front corners and devas in rear corners) is working well, but I also want to experiment with marty/deva side by side in back corners and a single marty in each front 1/4 (to take full advantage of the better back corner locations). I'll be doing some more detailed analysis so I can post the comparison sweeps next week. I can post how they graph overall at the present time with marty's alone in blue and devas plus marty's in red



I'll preface my initial impressions on the above with a few caveats: First, the sweeps are at roughly the same dB level but to get there I had to decrease the MV on my receiver significantly on the sweeps with the devas to compensate for the very significant increase in output I now have. Second, the sweeps with the devas reflect VERY rough integration, so don't take to much away from the comparison. Also, both sweeps have a very narrow EQ to address a persistent peak at 52 Hz, and no other EQ other than the standard deva formula. My take-aways from the initial rough sweeps?

First, the devas do an excellent job of addressing the issue I was having at 55-75 Hz, when they are at the apex of their potential.
Second, you can see the effects of the devastator signature graph shape in the nice boost I get in the low 20's and the drop-off after 80 Hz. (the 30-45 dip is placement and timing related).
Third, headroom. Crazy headroom. My MV for the sweeps with the devas was in the mid 20's.

I've had the same theater room for 15 years. It is a TERRIBLE room for bass, but it's the room I have. I've spent 15 years limited by the max output of the subwoofers I've owned and the wild peaks and nulls of my room. This past week is the first time I've ever had to turn the bass DOWN. No distortion, no red lights, no boominess, I had to dial back clean, satisfying bass. I think I've finally beaten my room into submission.
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SPEAKERS: 3 x DIYSG 1099's LCR; DIYSG HTM 6's and 8's surround; 4 x RSL C34E's atmos.
SUBS: 4 x UM18-22 Mini Marty's and 2 x 21DS114-4 Devastators
SIGNAL CHAIN: Denon X4400; Minidsp 2x4 HD; 2 x Jensen Iso Sub 2RX; 3 x NX6000d.
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post #16 of 40 Old 11-06-2019, 02:44 PM
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GSG Devastator Build and Integration with Mini Marty’s

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdogx View Post
Quick mid-week update, the plan is to do some more experimenting with locations this weekend and then dial them in next week. Current location (stacked marty's in front corners and devas in rear corners) is working well, but I also want to experiment with marty/deva side by side in back corners and a single marty in each front 1/4 (to take full advantage of the better back corner locations). I'll be doing some more detailed analysis so I can post the comparison sweeps next week. I can post how they graph overall at the present time with marty's alone in blue and devas plus marty's in red







I'll preface my initial impressions on the above with a few caveats: First, the sweeps are at roughly the same dB level but to get there I had to decrease the MV on my receiver significantly on the sweeps with the devas to compensate for the very significant increase in output I now have. Second, the sweeps with the devas reflect VERY rough integration, so don't take to much away from the comparison. Also, both sweeps have a very narrow EQ to address a persistent peak at 52 Hz, and no other EQ other than the standard deva formula. My take-aways from the initial rough sweeps?



First, the devas do an excellent job of addressing the issue I was having at 55-75 Hz, when they are at the apex of their potential.

Second, you can see the effects of the devastator signature graph shape in the nice boost I get in the low 20's and the drop-off after 80 Hz. (the 30-45 dip is placement and timing related).

Third, headroom. Crazy headroom. My MV for the sweeps with the devas was in the mid 20's.



I've had the same theater room for 15 years. It is a TERRIBLE room for bass, but it's the room I have. I've spent 15 years limited by the max output of the subwoofers I've owned and the wild peaks and nulls of my room. This past week is the first time I've ever had to turn the bass DOWN. No distortion, no red lights, no boominess, I had to dial back clean, satisfying bass. I think I've finally beaten my room into submission.

Sounds like a win so far. Having enough headroom is hard to accomplish. Moving those boxes around can’t be fun though, my mini’s are bad enough.


On the graph though, what you need to do is take the measurement with both marty’s and dev’s. Then, without adjusting the volume, take a measurement of just the devs, and then just of the martys. That will show how they are summing and/or cancelling across the frequency spectrum.

Here’s an example from my integration fight:

Green is Sealed HT18
Blue is MiniDev
Red is Sum



Thanks
Chris


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post #17 of 40 Old 11-06-2019, 03:28 PM - Thread Starter
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I'll post as much of that as I can next week, this week was step one - do devastators integrate with mini martys? Below is a sketch of my room and a chart of what a sub does in each location on the sketch:





Some guys throw a sub or two in their room and it graphs like a laser line. Some guys are like you and me and have to resort to witchcraft and trickery.

SPEAKERS: 3 x DIYSG 1099's LCR; DIYSG HTM 6's and 8's surround; 4 x RSL C34E's atmos.
SUBS: 4 x UM18-22 Mini Marty's and 2 x 21DS114-4 Devastators
SIGNAL CHAIN: Denon X4400; Minidsp 2x4 HD; 2 x Jensen Iso Sub 2RX; 3 x NX6000d.
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post #18 of 40 Old 11-06-2019, 04:25 PM
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GSG Devastator Build and Integration with Mini Marty’s

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdogx View Post
I'll post as much of that as I can next week, this week was step one - do devastators integrate with mini martys? Below is a sketch of my room and a chart of what a sub does in each location on the sketch:











Some guys throw a sub or two in their room and it graphs like a laser line. Some guys are like you and me and have to resort to witchcraft and trickery.


Wow, thats quite a few placement options, and a lot of moving heavy speakers. You have some ambition. Do you have separate dsp and amp channels for each woofer? That may determine just how useful various placements can be, as it will allow independent time alignments.

Disclaimer: There are many approaches to subwoofer placement and integration, this is just my understanding of the most beneficial workflow.

The graph I’m asking you for would be (and was) step one for me. The reasoning is it demonstrates the compatibility of the dev’s and marty’s, completely independent of placements. The relative phasing of the sub outputs won’t change with room placement, although the magnitude and total phase will. Basically, if you get destructive summation at any certain frequency range, it will always be destructive with placement, though the resulting summation magnitude will vary with room response of the chosen locations.

Then the second step for me would be messing with placement. Or it would be if I had more than 1 possible location for each sub. I’m actually lucky enough to have enough dsp channels and amp flexibility to individually control each sub. However, my lack of placement options, and my preference for visual symmetry completely nullify it. I plan to use absolute headroom and EQ to fix room modes, lol. At least I don’t have any nulls.

And yes, my room is far from ideal, like yours and most here.

EDIT: the graph definitely shows potential, assuming you will be using 4-6 of the placement options. Out of curiosity, which two are avoiding the null near 40hz?

Chris



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post #19 of 40 Old 11-06-2019, 05:50 PM
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EDIT: the graph definitely shows potential, assuming you will be using 4-6 of the placement options. Out of curiosity, which two are avoiding the null near 40hz?
Inquiring minds want to know...

Although my room has no resemblance of that in the sketch. But I fight the same null.

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post #20 of 40 Old 11-06-2019, 08:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by a77cj7 View Post
Wow, thats quite a few placement options, and a lot of moving heavy speakers. You have some ambition. Do you have separate dsp and amp channels for each woofer? That may determine just how useful various placements can be, as it will allow independent time alignments.

Disclaimer: There are many approaches to subwoofer placement and integration, this is just my understanding of the most beneficial workflow.

The graph I’m asking you for would be (and was) step one for me. The reasoning is it demonstrates the compatibility of the dev’s and marty’s, completely independent of placements. The relative phasing of the sub outputs won’t change with room placement, although the magnitude and total phase will. Basically, if you get destructive summation at any certain frequency range, it will always be destructive with placement, though the resulting summation magnitude will vary with room response of the chosen locations.

Then the second step for me would be messing with placement. Or it would be if I had more than 1 possible location for each sub. I’m actually lucky enough to have enough dsp channels and amp flexibility to individually control each sub. However, my lack of placement options, and my preference for visual symmetry completely nullify it. I plan to use absolute headroom and EQ to fix room modes, lol. At least I don’t have any nulls.

And yes, my room is far from ideal, like yours and most here.

EDIT: the graph definitely shows potential, assuming you will be using 4-6 of the placement options. Out of curiosity, which two are avoiding the null near 40hz?

Chris



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I think we do things a bit differently. I’ve known for a long time exactly what spots in my room give me exactly what output, so my locations are mostly set. I’m just working on which sub or combinations of subs go in those few useable locations. Experiment one was stacking Marty’s in the front corners to see what coupling subs gave me and how the height element effected room modes). Experiment two will be single Marty’s at front 1/4’s (which are the best FOH location anyway), and a Marty next to a Deva in each back corner. Experiment three might be putting back corner Marty’s on top of the devas. We’ll see.

And good eye spotting my problem area! The back right corner is the only place in the room that delivers bass between 35 and 45 hz. That’s what’s leading me to double up in the rear corners, to get some summation at 35-45 hz, and because they’re the two most complimentary locations in the room. Hard to believe these two roller coasters combine very nicely:
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post #21 of 40 Old 11-06-2019, 09:05 PM
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GSG Devastator Build and Integration with Mini Marty’s

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Originally Posted by lawdogx View Post
I think we do things a bit differently. I’ve known for a long time exactly what spots in my room give me exactly what output, so my locations are mostly set. I’m just working on which sub or combinations of subs go in those few useable locations. Experiment one was stacking Marty’s in the front corners to see what coupling subs gave me and how the height element effected room modes). Experiment two will be single Marty’s at front 1/4’s (which are the best FOH location anyway), and a Marty next to a Deva in each back corner. Experiment three might be putting back corner Marty’s on top of the devas. We’ll see.



And good eye spotting my problem area! The back right corner is the only place in the room that delivers bass between 35 and 45 hz. That’s what’s leading me to double up in the rear corners, to get some summation at 35-45 hz, and because they’re the two most complimentary locations in the room. Hard to believe these two roller coasters combine very nicely:

All I’m trying to convey is checking for any destructive interference inherent to the marty and devastator phasing. I’m not sure there is any, but I won’t be sure there isn’t until I convince someone that has both to measure it.

I think your placement measurements have been awesome, and those two graphs actually look pretty good for summation.

I’d be nervous about lacking firepower in the magic corner. Since that corner exclusively covers a significant portion of the frequency spectrum, I’d keep at least a dev and a marty there. This is a problem I recently ran into, summation looked good on paper, but I nearly blew the sealed subs, while the dev’s had plenty left. Oops

Since the other rear corner plays well, keeping the room generally symmetrical is a nice touch. So I’d say experiments two and three sound good to me.

The darker purple trace with the nice boost at 18 could be a decent placement for a marty if it works out. Its got some nasty nulls up high, but dev’s should take care of that. Looks to be mostly a one trick pony on the low end, but that much low boost may be worth it.

Chris



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post #22 of 40 Old 11-07-2019, 06:22 PM - Thread Starter
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All I’m trying to convey is checking for any destructive interference inherent to the marty and devastator phasing. I’m not sure there is any, but I won’t be sure there isn’t until I convince someone that has both to measure it.
Chris, I think this is what you’re looking for. Marty’s and Devastators sum beautifully. Those are raw measurements with no EQ other than the basic Deva formula, and less than optimal sub locations. Top is all subs playing together, bottom four are individual corners.
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post #23 of 40 Old 11-07-2019, 06:43 PM
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GSG Devastator Build and Integration with Mini Marty’s

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Chris, I think this is what you’re looking for. Marty’s and Devastators sum beautifully. Those are raw measurements with no EQ other than the basic Deva formula, and less than optimal sub locations. Top is all subs playing together, bottom four are individual corners.


Yes, close enough anyway. Good to know.
Thank you for that.

Sum isn’t looking too bad, very usable. Better than mine anyway, lol. Null at 19 is about the worst of it.

I’d remove the standard dev eq and use a global eq to set target curve once you finalize placement.

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Just a quick reality check on the scale of the speakers we see talked about frequently here in the DIY forums. The dimensions are everywhere, but you don't realize how differently sized these subs are until you see them next to each other. This is a VBSS next to a mini Marty:



And this is the same mini Marty next to a Devastator:



I read where folks refer to the V1 Devastator as the "little one" and chuckle. There may be bigger versions, but the Devastator is a large sub!

I have a basic question...

How does the mini compare to the Dev? If you only had the one mini and replaced it with one dev would you be wowed by the improvement it offers (your room issues aside)?

I currently have a mini w/18um and was thinking of upgrading to a dev. Does the dev add in a hefty amount of mid-bass vs the mini?


Thanks

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post #25 of 40 Old 11-11-2019, 10:24 AM
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GSG Devastator Build and Integration with Mini Marty’s

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Originally Posted by DavidinGA View Post
I have a basic question...



How does the mini compare to the Dev? If you only had the one mini and replaced it with one dev would you be wowed by the improvement it offers (your room issues aside)?



I currently have a mini w/18um and was thinking of upgrading to a dev. Does the dev add in a hefty amount of mid-bass vs the mini?





Thanks

Its not even in the same league, lol. Just switching the marty to a pro driver would be a noticeable increase in mid bass. The dev is way above and beyond.

EDIT: Almost forgot about this table. That should help explain the differences.
https://shop.gsgad.com/pages/perform...mparison-table

Chris


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Its not even in the same league, lol. Just switching the marty to a pro driver would be a noticeable increase in mid bass. The dev is way above and beyond.

EDIT: Almost forgot about this table. That should help explain the differences.
https://shop.gsgad.com/pages/perform...mparison-table

Chris


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Thanks for the table.

I wonder if I'd be better served by adding a mbm (or two) to my mini setup...?

I'm pretty satisfied with the mini overall (although I'm sure ignorance is Bliss here ~ haven't heard anything bigger/better personally), I just want a bit more mid punch.

Thoughts?

Thanks

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--------------------------------------------------
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post #27 of 40 Old 11-11-2019, 12:14 PM
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Thanks for the table.

I wonder if I'd be better served by adding a mbm (or two) to my mini setup...?

I'm pretty satisfied with the mini overall (although I'm sure ignorance is Bliss here ~ haven't heard anything bigger/better personally), I just want a bit more mid punch.

Thoughts?

Thanks

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Build a Mini Devastator to add more mid bass punch and low end? One will have more than enough mid bass punch.
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post #28 of 40 Old 11-11-2019, 12:25 PM
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GSG Devastator Build and Integration with Mini Marty’s

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidinGA View Post
Thanks for the table.

I wonder if I'd be better served by adding a mbm (or two) to my mini setup...?

I'm pretty satisfied with the mini overall (although I'm sure ignorance is Bliss here ~ haven't heard anything bigger/better personally), I just want a bit more mid punch.

Thoughts?

Thanks

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


If you’re completely happy with the low end of the mini marty, You could just mod it for a 21” pro driver. Will have the same low end as the 18um, and significantly increased midbass.
The 21 cube in the table is equivalent of this.

If you have the space, adding a mbm will work. I wouldn’t think plural, a single pa460 will easily keep up with multiple um’s.

However, if you have the space, I’d suggest adding a dev/mini dev/pa drivered marty. Additional drivers help with room smoothing.
I personally added a mbm to my ht 18’s, then ended up replacing it with a pair of mini dev’s within just a few months. Then again, I’m also building a pair of submaxs, so I’ve gone off the deep end of theater bass.

Chris




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post #29 of 40 Old 11-11-2019, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by a77cj7 View Post
If you’re completely happy with the low end of the mini marty, You could just mod it for a 21” pro driver. Will have the same low end as the 18um, and significantly increased midbass.
The 21 cube in the table is equivalent of this.

If you have the space, adding a mbm will work. I wouldn’t think plural, a single pa460 will easily keep up with multiple um’s.

However, if you have the space, I’d suggest adding a dev/mini dev/pa drivered marty. Additional drivers help with room smoothing.
I personally added a mbm to my ht 18’s, then ended up replacing it with a pair of mini dev’s within just a few months. Then again, I’m also building a pair of submaxs, so I’ve gone off the deep end of theater bass.

Chris




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Can I mod my mini 18" for a 21" driver??? Does it fit? Would I need a stronger amp then? I'm running an nx3000D bridged now with the um18.


Is there a standard go-to sizing chart for ported mbm's (like what I've seen for marty subs)? Seems like adding some mbm's would be the cheapest route, right? What amps do people use for a pa460 mbm build (ported)? Maybe a nx1000d for one and a nx3000d for two? Or is that overkill...?


I actually have two subs in my room a mini 18" and an old Klipsch 12" sub (added it in to smooth out a null I had that surprisingly worked out well). So I don't necessarily need another sub in there for room smoothing and/or spl, the wife never really lets me crank it up too much as it is (why do they always have to be like that!?).

--------------------------------------------------
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post #30 of 40 Old 11-11-2019, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
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Can I mod my mini 18" for a 21" driver??? Does it fit? Would I need a stronger amp then? I'm running an nx3000D bridged now with the um18.





Is there a standard go-to sizing chart for ported mbm's (like what I've seen for marty subs)? Seems like adding some mbm's would be the cheapest route, right? What amps do people use for a pa460 mbm build (ported)? Maybe a nx1000d for one and a nx3000d for two? Or is that overkill...?





I actually have two subs in my room a mini 18" and an old Klipsch 12" sub (added it in to smooth out a null I had that surprisingly worked out well). So I don't necessarily need another sub in there for room smoothing and/or spl, the wife never really lets me crank it up too much as it is (why do they always have to be like that!?).


Yes, the mini marty is plenty big enough for a 21” sub.
With that amp, the 21ds115-4 would be a good match.
The new Eminence NSW has even more on the low end, but is a 6ohm sub, and may break port velocity. I’d have to model that one. Its also more expensive.

I would actually stay away from ported mbm’s, due to integration issues between subs. If you want a pa460 to play well with the marty, I’d build a 20hz tuned vbss.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.avs...html%3Famp%3D1

Chris




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