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post #31 of 90 Old 11-28-2019, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by a77cj7 View Post
Dude, you’re running 6 21” pro drivers in horns. A tad mid heavy might be a slight understatement.

No way I can fit 4, 2 should be tolerable though.
Plus the sealed HST’s and BOSS for low end.

Chris
Yeah your setup is going to pound hard 2 with just um 18s hit super low and hard

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post #32 of 90 Old 11-29-2019, 01:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Used the PE code to order a pair of NSW’s
We’ll see how long it takes to get them.

FI just did free shipping this year, so made the price difference much closer.

Chris
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post #33 of 90 Old 11-29-2019, 01:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by hd0823 View Post
Yeah your setup is going to pound hard 2 with just um 18s hit super low and hard

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


If the DS was a huge improvement to the UM, the NSW should be somewhat OK.

Chris
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post #34 of 90 Old 11-29-2019, 05:07 PM
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Put the HST’s in the BOSS.
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post #35 of 90 Old 11-29-2019, 05:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, I now understand why the SI24 sale is local pickup / delivery

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samps View Post
Put the HST’s in the BOSS.


Lmao, pogochairs.
Might have some minor clearance issues though, since I had to tweak the mechanism for the pair of JBL’s.

HST is 16.2” from bottom of motor to top of surround, plus 1.6” of cone travel outward.
I’m sure I can make it work

Chris

Last edited by a77cj7; 11-29-2019 at 05:36 PM.
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post #36 of 90 Old 11-29-2019, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a77cj7 View Post
Used the PE code to order a pair of NSW’s
We’ll see how long it takes to get them.

FI just did free shipping this year, so made the price difference much closer.

Chris
Fi doesn't list Le specs, makes it hard to get a accurate model in HR. You made the right decision. So what it going to be, V3's ,Devastator, plain old big ported?

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post #37 of 90 Old 11-29-2019, 05:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, I now understand why the SI24 sale is local pickup / delivery

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla Killa View Post
Fi doesn't list Le specs, makes it hard to get a accurate model in HR. You made the right decision. So what it going to be, V3's ,Devastator, plain old big ported?


Le is 2.5-2.6, I asked them via facebook.

The NSW’s are for the v3’s. Already have the wood cut to width and they work well for my space.

The HST’s are going sealed I believe. I will have to do lots of measuring, planning, and plotting now that I’m home. Realizing the HST’s weren’t fitting in v3 was right before I left for Thanksgiving.
Don’t think I can fit LLT, and not sure how it would integrate.
Not sure I’m gonna need the extra 20hz output of a ported.
I’m open to suggestions, lol.

I’ll also have my mini dev’s with 18ds115’s in the system.

Chris

Last edited by a77cj7; 11-29-2019 at 05:48 PM.
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post #38 of 90 Old 11-29-2019, 06:46 PM
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By all means carry on with the V3's. I've been waffling for 2 months now. I was going to do V3's then SKram back to ported, maybe a BMD. Really just need 2 get the other 2 out of cardboard, build saomething and quit logging in here.

For comparison sake


NSWSubMax




FI 10 cu ft ported



HST18 Sealed
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post #39 of 90 Old 11-29-2019, 07:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla Killa View Post
By all means carry on with the V3's. I've been waffling for 2 months now. I was going to do V3's then SKram back to ported, maybe a BMD. Really just need 2 get the other 2 out of cardboard, build saomething and quit logging in here.

Logging on here is dangerous, lol.

The NSW’s are definitely going in v3’s, that’s what I bought them for.
The FI was another v3 option.

The only part yet to be determined is what to do with the cute lil HST’s that lost their home.

Chris
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post #40 of 90 Old 11-29-2019, 07:09 PM
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Port the hst’s! My 6 are happy and sound great
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post #41 of 90 Old 11-29-2019, 07:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jk7.2 View Post
Port the hst’s! My 6 are happy and sound great

I know they’ll work great ported, more of a question of being worth it.

Current thought process:

20hz-ish ported: Is the additional output at 20hz going to make a significant difference with v3’s and devs running?

LLT ported: Can I even fit them? Can they integrate with v3 and dev?

Sealed: Easiest to build and fit. Will same integration trick work as current sealed subs? Will the additional ULF be worth it?

Chris
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post #42 of 90 Old 11-29-2019, 07:23 PM
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Skip sealed. That’s all I can say. Ported is the cheese. Lol. I have yet to see their limits. And I’ve run without highpass with clone amps. Never seen the hst hit a limit. I wonder if they have any. Now, LLT, ported, V3’s, my advice is get 21’s and build V3’s. The hst is no slouch though.
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post #43 of 90 Old 11-29-2019, 07:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, I now understand why the SI24 sale is local pickup / delivery

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jk7.2 View Post
Skip sealed. That’s all I can say. Ported is the cheese. Lol. I have yet to see their limits. And I’ve run without highpass with clone amps. Never seen the hst hit a limit. I wonder if they have any. Now, LLT, ported, V3’s, my advice is get 21’s and build V3’s. The hst is no slouch though.

Ok, one more time: I already bought the NSW 21’s, and they ARE going in v3’s.
I also already have mini devastators.

I already have a pair of HST’s.

I will be running a total of 6 cabs, 2x mini dev, 2x NSW v3, 2x ?-HST. 2500w to each cabinet. Plus BOSS.

In a 16x22x8 room, open to rest of house.

Chris
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post #44 of 90 Old 11-29-2019, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a77cj7 View Post
Ok, one more time: I already bought the NSW 21’s, and they ARE going in v3’s.
I also already have mini devastators.

I already have a pair of HST’s.

I will be running a total of 6 cabs, 2x mini dev, 2x NSW v3, 2x ?-HST. 2500w to each cabinet. Plus BOSS.

In a 16x22x8 room, open to rest of house.

Chris


Yeah, let me help. Can you fit LLT for the hst’s? Idk! You tell me! If you can...... yeah it will be worth it. With V3’s and devastators? Sure, what are you after? Ridiculous levels? Sure. Do it all. You already have the drivers. What’s the cost of some cabs? Build them.
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post #45 of 90 Old 11-29-2019, 07:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jk7.2 View Post
Yeah, let me help. Can you fit LLT for the hst’s? Idk! You tell me! If you can...... yeah it will be worth it. With V3’s and devastators? Sure, what are you after? Ridiculous levels? Sure. Do it all. You already have the drivers. What’s the cost of some cabs? Build them.

So far I haven’t dreamed up a way to fit LLT’s that will pass WAF, or my approval for that matter. I also don’t know that its worth pursuing if I can’t get it to integrate with other subs.
I do need to build a riser for the rear row chairs. If I can somehow use that volume for LLT’s, it might be doable.

With current location, I can do a sealed 6cf, and can probably go taller for a mini marty volume equivalent.
I’m just not sure if the ported spl and ease of integration or the sealed ULF is more beneficial.

My cab builds tend to get expensive with wood, duratex, and time. I don’t like to build throwaways. I’d rather have a decent idea of outcome beforehand.

What am I after?
Crazy output in general.
Specifically?
I’ve wanted a set of HST’s since I first saw them with the gen 1’s. Now that I finally have some, I don’t want to sell them unused. So I want to integrate them in a beneficial manner to the rest of the system.

Chris
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post #46 of 90 Old 11-29-2019, 07:57 PM
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Cheese HST at 19hz 9cuft grey is Lossy with 2500watts



NSW 20hz 2000watts 11cuft

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post #47 of 90 Old 11-29-2019, 08:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla Killa View Post
Cheese at 19hz 9cuft grey is Lossy with 2500watts



Does that have a hpf on it? And am I reading correctly that you’re showing significantly higher output at 10hz than the sealed HST?

I need to play with hornresp more, just started learning it the other day. Not nearly as intuitive as winISD.

Chris
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post #48 of 90 Old 11-29-2019, 08:37 PM
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No HP on the HST. The sealed needs a Linkwitz but its going to need loads of power dumped into it. I added the NSW to my post, it has a HP that could be moved a little lower.

The nomenclature in HR is not as straight forward as WINisd and took me some time to navigate. Much more accurate modeling though especially the beefy drivers. For sealed and ported its fairly simple, horns are a whole different game. I don't want to bog the thread down, PM what youre unsure or stuck on ill help

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post #49 of 90 Old 11-29-2019, 08:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla Killa View Post
No HP on the HST. The sealed needs a Linkwitz but its going to need loads of power dumped into it. I added the NSW to my post, it has a HP that could be moved a little lower.



The nomenclature in HR is not as straight forward as WINisd and took me some time to navigate. Much more accurate modeling though especially the beefy drivers. For sealed and ported its fairly simple, horns are a whole different game. I don't want to bog the thread down, PM what youre unsure or stuck on ill help


Thanks again.
This is a pointless just-for-fun thread anyways, so derailing it is challenging.

I will spend some time playing with hornresp tomorrow, so I might just take you up on that. So far I’ve just played with drivers in Submax, so kinda jumped off the deep end of understanding what I’m typing in. The driver entry was simple enough, more questions of what the program is actually simulating.

Thanks,
Chris
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post #50 of 90 Old 11-29-2019, 09:01 PM
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Here's a sealed HST with some eq LS at 30hz Q.5 +6 and a peak at 90hz Q.5 +4

Notice what that amp needs to put out at 10 hz, at 15hz its back down to 3000w. Less power needed in a riser or ported




Ported, amp requirement at 12hz

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post #51 of 90 Old 11-29-2019, 09:11 PM
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If it weren't for phasing issues I would say throw the HSTs in the LBM, start shooting at 130db ish at 20Hz. Integration would be challenging unless it is in a two way setup unfornately. Best bet for the HSTs would be ported cabinets tuned around 17Hz, net 9-11cuft would be reasonable, integration should be easy. A near field application with a really low tune would also be interesting, but you already have a BOSS, this makes things more complicated since the HSTs are good at making SPL at frequencies that destroy stuff. Which is mostly for the wobble effect. Seal them and use them as car subs?

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post #52 of 90 Old 11-29-2019, 09:58 PM
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You could consider the original design of submaximus. The HST would fit. LTD might be able to modify that design slightly to match the results of V3.
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post #53 of 90 Old 11-30-2019, 12:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla Killa View Post
Here's a sealed HST with some eq LS at 30hz Q.5 +6 and a peak at 90hz Q.5 +4



Notice what that amp needs to put out at 10 hz, at 15hz its back down to 3000w. Less power needed in a riser or ported









Ported, amp requirement at 12hz



Yep, I definitely need to spend some time with the program. Hadn’t found that feature yet. Looks like all blizzard conditions here tomorrow, so I’ll be playing with the models.

Where my 6cf sealed number comes from is winISD modeling on 2500w. Which takes it to just over xmax, 40mm-ish. I’d be scared to see the diaphragm displacement on that 5000w model.

Chris
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post #54 of 90 Old 11-30-2019, 12:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
If it weren't for phasing issues I would say throw the HSTs in the LBM, start shooting at 130db ish at 20Hz. Integration would be challenging unless it is in a two way setup unfornately. Best bet for the HSTs would be ported cabinets tuned around 17Hz, net 9-11cuft would be reasonable, integration should be easy. A near field application with a really low tune would also be interesting, but you already have a BOSS, this makes things more complicated since the HSTs are good at making SPL at frequencies that destroy stuff. Which is mostly for the wobble effect. Seal them and use them as car subs?


I remembered your LBM design, had to go dig that one up. Other than the ridiculous dimensions, I can see right away its got the same problem as the v3: woofer won’t physically fit. HST is 16.2” from top of surround to bottom of magnet, no way that model has the clearance required.
Plus it looks like that design is just hammering the 20 to 40hz range, but still falls off a cliff below.

Nearfield is out in my room with multiple rows. Especially with the HST depth.

I’m ok with the stupid low breaking-stuff frequencies, lol. Gotta try it at least once.

I’m starting to get the idea that everyone thinks a mini-marty-ish enclosure is the way to go. Skip past the ulf and see if I can lift the top story off my house at 20hz. Yay 140db’s.
I’ll start working on the design tomorrow, should be very simple with the marty mod spreadsheet.

Car subs... my daily is a BMW M235. The only way I could get a HST in there would be to belt the raw driver into the passenger seat.

Chris
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post #55 of 90 Old 11-30-2019, 12:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, I now understand why the SI24 sale is local pickup / delivery

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samps View Post
You could consider the original design of submaximus. The HST would fit. LTD might be able to modify that design slightly to match the results of V3.


Suddenly, more research. I’ve never seen the original submax design, just v2 and v3.

It’s probably a moot point since I certainly don’t have the space for 4 submax’, but you’ve got me curious now.

EDIT: Found it, no panel dimensions are listed any more in the main post, but judging by the pic, I can’t see it fitting.
Ran the math for v2, looks like that sub chamber should be 18” deep, so it would work. John claims that one didn’t turn out correctly though.

Chris

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post #56 of 90 Old 11-30-2019, 05:58 AM
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This is the original thread, it was V2:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.avs...a.html%3famp=1


This diagram looks like there is plenty of room:




It didn’t work exactly as planned but wasn’t a complete failure. LTD could likely modify it if he has the time.
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post #57 of 90 Old 11-30-2019, 09:01 AM
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Wasn't there a lilwreaker that fit an 18"? Might be easier to integrate with the V3s.

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post #58 of 90 Old 11-30-2019, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, I now understand why the SI24 sale is local pickup / delivery

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samps View Post
This is the original thread, it was V2:



https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.avs...a.html%3famp=1





This diagram looks like there is plenty of room:









It didn’t work exactly as planned but wasn’t a complete failure. LTD could likely modify it if he has the time.


Yah, by math looks like the chamber should be 18” deep.

I thought John already did modify it, resulting in the v3.

I can’t fit more of them anyway, so a moot point.

Chris
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post #59 of 90 Old 12-01-2019, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a77cj7 View Post
Having 21ds’ as spare drivers... must be rough

Aren’t they almost impossible to blow with clean power?

Chris

I got a great deal on the drivers which I couldn't just pass on. I have an idea of what their destination is gonna be thou, I don't expect to blow any of these drivers in my HT anyways. The SKHorn is placed 5ft away from my MLP, I can't even imagine running it full tilt (unless I'm demo'ing).


The pro drivers with a neo motor rely alot on air cooling. If you hit the drivers at their excursion minimum, the coils will melt with only like 500W sustained (for a few minutes).
Somebody at data-bass burned a coil with an iNuke.

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post #60 of 90 Old 12-01-2019, 01:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peniku8 View Post
I got a great deal on the drivers which I couldn't just pass on. I have an idea of what their destination is gonna be thou, I don't expect to blow any of these drivers in my HT anyways. The SKHorn is placed 5ft away from my MLP, I can't even imagine running it full tilt (unless I'm demo'ing).


The pro drivers with a neo motor rely alot on air cooling. If you hit the drivers at their excursion minimum, the coils will melt with only like 500W sustained (for a few minutes).
Somebody at data-bass burned a coil with an iNuke.


Ahh, ok. I assumed you had them as spares for a pro setup, with the road cases in the background.

Can’t argue with picking up a good deal.

SKHorn at home should be fun, especially that close.

Chris
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