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Well, I now understand why the SI24 sale is local pickup / delivery

8K views 123 replies 20 participants last post by  iron_monkey 
#1 ·
I received my Stereo Integrity HST-18’s today. Seeing the size of the boxes, and then having to carry them across the driveway in the snow and into my shop, I can understand why they are avoiding shipping the 24’s.

These are the deepest, heaviest woofers I’ve ever handled.



Pointless thread, but I felt like sharing my amusement.

Chris


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#3 ·
No, I decided to keep it simple and mild. So they’re going in submax v3’s. :D

Assuming I can actually make them fit, that is. Best I can tell from the drawings the woofer back chamber is 15.6” deep. Should leave them with 1” pole vent clearance, and I will have to smoosh the surround a bit to get them in place.

I should have gotten the panels cut and the layout drawing done today, but I got lazy and had a day of relaxation. Been tuning/playing with existing subs instead.

Chris


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#9 ·
Good luck on the build. I can't wait to see this come together. As for the Hs-24 they are just Massive. The shipping box is like 29" x 29" x 21" and weighs 145#. I took mine to a friend that owns a car audio shop and all he could do was laugh. He had never seen anything like it. So yes direct pick up makes sense unfortunately.
 
#13 · (Edited)
16x22. But open to a couple additional rooms and a flight of stairs.

Headroom is good, just hoping the drywall survives.

10300w and 12 cones is normal LFE channel, right?

Edit: after tweaking gain structure further, was red lighting the mini dev’s slightly on RP1 race scene. I assume submax may bring em back in, otherwise I’m gonna need a 3rd 4/1250. :D I know the 18ds115’s would be happy on 2500w each, but I would have to run another 20a circuit.

Chris


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#22 ·
Whelp, I messed up on this one. Got the Submax layout drawn up, and theres no way the HST is gonna fit.

O well, its only money, right? [emoji19]

Now I’m thinking I’ll put the HST’s in 6cf sealed.

Then pick up a pair of NSW’s or HT3’s for the submax.

I’ve got till friday to figure it out I guess, yay sales.

Chris
 
#38 ·
By all means carry on with the V3's. I've been waffling for 2 months now. I was going to do V3's then SKram back to ported, maybe a BMD. Really just need 2 get the other 2 out of cardboard, build saomething and quit logging in here.

For comparison sake


NSWSubMax




FI 10 cu ft ported



HST18 Sealed
 
#39 ·
By all means carry on with the V3's. I've been waffling for 2 months now. I was going to do V3's then SKram back to ported, maybe a BMD. Really just need 2 get the other 2 out of cardboard, build saomething and quit logging in here.

Logging on here is dangerous, lol.

The NSW’s are definitely going in v3’s, that’s what I bought them for.
The FI was another v3 option.

The only part yet to be determined is what to do with the cute lil HST’s that lost their home.

Chris
 
#41 ·
I know they’ll work great ported, more of a question of being worth it.

Current thought process:

20hz-ish ported: Is the additional output at 20hz going to make a significant difference with v3’s and devs running?

LLT ported: Can I even fit them? Can they integrate with v3 and dev?

Sealed: Easiest to build and fit. Will same integration trick work as current sealed subs? Will the additional ULF be worth it?

Chris
 
#42 ·
Skip sealed. That’s all I can say. Ported is the cheese. Lol. I have yet to see their limits. And I’ve run without highpass with clone amps. Never seen the hst hit a limit. I wonder if they have any. Now, LLT, ported, V3’s, my advice is get 21’s and build V3’s. The hst is no slouch though.
 
#43 ·
Ok, one more time: I already bought the NSW 21’s, and they ARE going in v3’s.
I also already have mini devastators.

I already have a pair of HST’s.

I will be running a total of 6 cabs, 2x mini dev, 2x NSW v3, 2x ?-HST. 2500w to each cabinet. Plus BOSS.

In a 16x22x8 room, open to rest of house.

Chris
 
#48 ·
No HP on the HST. The sealed needs a Linkwitz but its going to need loads of power dumped into it. I added the NSW to my post, it has a HP that could be moved a little lower.

The nomenclature in HR is not as straight forward as WINisd and took me some time to navigate. Much more accurate modeling though especially the beefy drivers. For sealed and ported its fairly simple, horns are a whole different game. I don't want to bog the thread down, PM what youre unsure or stuck on ill help
 
#49 ·
No HP on the HST. The sealed needs a Linkwitz but its going to need loads of power dumped into it. I added the NSW to my post, it has a HP that could be moved a little lower.



The nomenclature in HR is not as straight forward as WINisd and took me some time to navigate. Much more accurate modeling though especially the beefy drivers. For sealed and ported its fairly simple, horns are a whole different game. I don't want to bog the thread down, PM what youre unsure or stuck on ill help


Thanks again.
This is a pointless just-for-fun thread anyways, so derailing it is challenging.

I will spend some time playing with hornresp tomorrow, so I might just take you up on that. So far I’ve just played with drivers in Submax, so kinda jumped off the deep end of understanding what I’m typing in. The driver entry was simple enough, more questions of what the program is actually simulating.

Thanks,
Chris
 
#50 ·
Here's a sealed HST with some eq LS at 30hz Q.5 +6 and a peak at 90hz Q.5 +4

Notice what that amp needs to put out at 10 hz, at 15hz its back down to 3000w. Less power needed in a riser or ported




Ported, amp requirement at 12hz
 
#53 ·
Here's a sealed HST with some eq LS at 30hz Q.5 +6 and a peak at 90hz Q.5 +4



Notice what that amp needs to put out at 10 hz, at 15hz its back down to 3000w. Less power needed in a riser or ported









Ported, amp requirement at 12hz



Yep, I definitely need to spend some time with the program. Hadn’t found that feature yet. Looks like all blizzard conditions here tomorrow, so I’ll be playing with the models.

Where my 6cf sealed number comes from is winISD modeling on 2500w. Which takes it to just over xmax, 40mm-ish. I’d be scared to see the diaphragm displacement on that 5000w model.

Chris
 
#51 ·
If it weren't for phasing issues I would say throw the HSTs in the LBM, start shooting at 130db ish at 20Hz. Integration would be challenging unless it is in a two way setup unfornately. Best bet for the HSTs would be ported cabinets tuned around 17Hz, net 9-11cuft would be reasonable, integration should be easy. A near field application with a really low tune would also be interesting, but you already have a BOSS, this makes things more complicated since the HSTs are good at making SPL at frequencies that destroy stuff. Which is mostly for the wobble effect. Seal them and use them as car subs? :D
 
#54 ·
I remembered your LBM design, had to go dig that one up. Other than the ridiculous dimensions, I can see right away its got the same problem as the v3: woofer won’t physically fit. HST is 16.2” from top of surround to bottom of magnet, no way that model has the clearance required.
Plus it looks like that design is just hammering the 20 to 40hz range, but still falls off a cliff below.

Nearfield is out in my room with multiple rows. Especially with the HST depth.

I’m ok with the stupid low breaking-stuff frequencies, lol. Gotta try it at least once. :D

I’m starting to get the idea that everyone thinks a mini-marty-ish enclosure is the way to go. Skip past the ulf and see if I can lift the top story off my house at 20hz. Yay 140db’s.
I’ll start working on the design tomorrow, should be very simple with the marty mod spreadsheet.

Car subs... my daily is a BMW M235. The only way I could get a HST in there would be to belt the raw driver into the passenger seat. [emoji6]

Chris
 
#55 · (Edited)
Suddenly, more research. I’ve never seen the original submax design, just v2 and v3.

It’s probably a moot point since I certainly don’t have the space for 4 submax’, but you’ve got me curious now.

EDIT: Found it, no panel dimensions are listed any more in the main post, but judging by the pic, I can’t see it fitting.
Ran the math for v2, looks like that sub chamber should be 18” deep, so it would work. John claims that one didn’t turn out correctly though.

Chris
 
#58 ·
#62 ·
So I was browsing JTR’s site today, and noticed that the cap 4000ulf has nearly identical dimensions to the ported box I’m considering, yet has a 10hz tune and dual woofers.
If they can build and market a setup like that, I can certainly try one.

Instead of putting all the eggs in one basket, I’m going to build multi tune boxes for the HST’s.
External dimensions 36x42x20, 10cu net.
3x 5.67x5 ports, 60” total length.
All ports open: 19hz
One port blocked: 15hz
Two ports blocked: 11hz
Port velocity gets stupid at 11hz, but apparently JTR gets away with it, and they use dual woofers.

Anyone see any issues with this plan?

Only issue I see is first port resonance is at 115hz.
I should be able to cross low, since I’ll have devastators and v3’s with pro drivers pounding the midbass.
I could drop the ports to 4.5” and get it to 130hz, but velocity goes up of course.

Chris
 
#71 ·
Well, that resulted in a much more successful model.

I’m not sure what it tells me though. Comparing phase is really frustrating, since you can only compare 1 previous iteration and changing crossovers kills it. Also, I don’t think it has the option of cascaded crossovers.

Also, how are you supposed to model diaphragm displacement and acoustical power under actual amplifier output?

Thanks,
Chris
 
#72 ·
Generally ATC input you use the SD of the driver.

If you dbl click acoustical power graph it will show amp efficiency at a specific hz. Dbl click diaphragm displacement to get velocity and acceleration at a hz/displacement. LR filters are cascaded Butterworth filters
 
#73 · (Edited)
Generally ATC input you use the SD of the driver.



If you dbl click acoustical power graph it will show amp efficiency at a specific hz. Dbl click diaphragm displacement to get velocity and acceleration at a hz/displacement. LR filters are cascaded Butterworth filters


Ok, I didn’t realize atc would change for a different driver in the same design. Does vtc need to be adjusted as well?

Acoustical power is near driver sensitivity, and diaphragm displacement is around 1mm, so I’m assuming it’s modeling 1w or 2.8v.

LR’s don’t help when I’m trying to cascade different frequencies and orders of BW, but thanks.


Chris
 
#74 ·
You will end up using the Windows Snipping tool to take screen grabs, since you cannot do direct comparisons with filters on. If you double left click on the Eg box you can put in the number of watts, then use Re of the sub to determine the power.
 
#77 ·
No, I’m trying to cascade crossovers to match phase. I believe one of the combos that looked promising in winISD was a 10hz 4th order BW HPF and a 8hz 2nd order BW HPF. I forget which tune that was for.

In winisd, that combo matched up almost perfectly with a sealed sub with a 10hz 8th order BW. I used that setup to integrate the sealed with the mini dev’s, not sure if it will match with submax or not.

There’s a whole lot of “Ifs” and “maybes” involved, hence the multi tune design.

EDIT: I just got home, but have to change the oil in my car and make deviled eggs for a work party. I’ll try to mess with it more later tonight.

Chris
 
#79 ·
Im not familiar enough with winISD but in HR The active gives 1 HP and 1 LP dedicated. The equaliser will let you do 2 more HP or 2 LP or 1 of each etc.



For what it's worth HR will be far more accurate than winISD


Ahh. Ok, hadn’t opened the eq. That sounds like it will do the trick.

I know hr is more accurate, thats why I’m attempting to learn it. Well, that and the 4 horns I’ll be running.

Chris
 
#80 ·
Thanks @Red Five and @Gorilla Killa!
I think I have workable HR models now.

By playing with basic crossovers, I was able to match phase response relatively close between the v3 and all three tunes of the ported box.

HR is giving me a lower tune for given port length than WinISD, any idea which is correct?
I like HR’s answer better, allows me to shorten the port to 130cm and get the first port resonance up to 130hz.

It’s looking like I’ll have to throw an 8th order butterworth LPF in at 70-80 to match phase, so the resonance is probably irrelevant.

Is there a port velocity model in HR?

Is allowing Submax to run up to the 120hz global LPF going to be a problem? Throwing a 80hz on it will change phasing, not sure I can easily match it.

I don’t have any idea what the mini dev does yet, so hopefully it plays nice.

Chris
 
#83 ·
Thanks @Red Five and @Gorilla Killa !
I think I have workable HR models now.

By playing with basic crossovers, I was able to match phase response relatively close between the v3 and all three tunes of the ported box.

HR is giving me a lower tune for given port length than WinISD, any idea which is correct?
I like HR’s answer better, allows me to shorten the port to 130cm and get the first port resonance up to 130hz.

It’s looking like I’ll have to throw an 8th order butterworth LPF in at 70-80 to match phase, so the resonance is probably irrelevant.

Is there a port velocity model in HR?

Is allowing Submax to run up to the 120hz global LPF going to be a problem? Throwing a 80hz on it will change phasing, not sure I can easily match it.

I don’t have any idea what the mini dev does yet, so hopefully it plays nice.

Chris

Port velocity/horn velocity is a little tricky to find. From the Acoustical Power windows go into tools. Change output to port vs combined. Go back into tools, go down to Particle velocity then chose inlet or outlet. You can also see the horn velocity from the mouth by switching output to horn. HR is pretty spot on with calculating port length, no correction needed. The input for the Mini is in the attachments for the design. I fat fingered .75 in S3, it should be .58, not that it changes anything since the value is so minute.



 
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