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post #1 of 11 Old 11-16-2019, 10:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Help Shallow Sealed Sub

I need to build shallow subs for my side walls and was planning on using a manufacture but it seems like they have fell behind in some regards from what I have read so now need to source the drivers.

My space for the cabinet is 12.5”-13” max for depth with no concern for all other dimensions.

Extension for ULF is of utmost importance being that all my other subs are monsters in that department. My mid bass is going to be incorporated into my LCRs so not interested in those drivers for this build.

Is there any modeling APP for iPad or iPhone that I can model with that anyone has developed?

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated!

Bests
Alex


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post #2 of 11 Old 11-16-2019, 04:37 PM
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There is WinISD for windows, but I am unaware of any phone apps. What are your other subs?

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post #3 of 11 Old 11-16-2019, 05:51 PM
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um18's aren't too deep.

sealed for most extension.

3 c.f. minimum, 4 c.f. better, larger even better.

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post #4 of 11 Old 11-16-2019, 05:55 PM
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if you are going to put one under each speaker, you would only need 105dB or so including whatever room gain you get. something like a modest 390ho in a small sealed could be an option.

it just kind of depends if you'll be redirecting bass from one or many speakers, if you will be piping lfe through them, how much eq you like, how loud you listen, and how much room gain you get.
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post #5 of 11 Old 11-17-2019, 09:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Help Shallow Sealed Sub

Quote:
Originally Posted by Augerhandle View Post
There is WinISD for windows, but I am unaware of any phone apps. What are your other subs?


My other subs are currently 10 21” sealed subs for front and rear walls where depth doesn’t matter.

I’m trying to order four 24s from Nick on the pre Friday sale now to add to the front and rear walls.

I am most likely going with the new Eminence drivers for the MBMs for the LCRs.


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post #6 of 11 Old 11-17-2019, 10:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
if you are going to put one under each speaker, you would only need 105dB or so including whatever room gain you get. something like a modest 390ho in a small sealed could be an option.



it just kind of depends if you'll be redirecting bass from one or many speakers, if you will be piping lfe through them, how much eq you like, how loud you listen, and how much room gain you get.


LTD, thanks for chiming in man. I’m wanting these for side wall low extension modules for LFE only. If I add modules for my surrounds I think pro drivers that extend down to 40hz or so would be best for that endeavor but I’m not sure I’m approaching this the correct way for sure as the Altitude can do so so much that the possibilities are endless.

My thinking is just to keep the ULF extension cabinets/drivers/modules similar with high xmax drivers and will use a MiniDSP or similar unit to do a “whole sub system tune” with just one channel from the Altitude method. Apply the same filter across each sub treating them as a whole. I’m sure that method has a proper name but just seems like it would be the easiest way then use sealed pro modules under my LCRs and surrounds with the Trinnov. I could possibly split the output from the Trinnov to DSPs for them as well but I’m unsure about the proper way to go about that as I’ve read XLR Y-splitters do some funky things although I’ve used them with no issues.

I know there are units that act like a breakout box/switch panel for XLR cables but unsure if actually need to try that approach. I’m not using Quested amps on my surrounds so I need to use the altitude to keep them in check between their sub extension modules one way or another so would have to somehow use a DSP with them too if that makes sense.

Trinnov has announced the channel count upgrade unit but they haven’t released it or pricing so can’t speak if multiple DSPs would be feasible over upgrading to the huge channel count Altitude. But, I’m betting multiple DSPs would be better then treat each linked channel as a whole from one output of the Altitude.

Hope that explained everything.

Bests
Alex


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post #7 of 11 Old 11-17-2019, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
if you are going to put one under each speaker, you would only need 105dB or so including whatever room gain you get. something like a modest 390ho in a small sealed could be an option.



it just kind of depends if you'll be redirecting bass from one or many speakers, if you will be piping lfe through them, how much eq you like, how loud you listen, and how much room gain you get.


Oh. And I’m currently using QSC 4 channel amp for the surrounds that has built in DSP so guess I could handle keeping them in check directly from the amp.


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post #8 of 11 Old 11-17-2019, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post
I need to build shallow subs for my side walls...

...My space for the cabinet is 12.5”-13” max for depth...
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post
...I’m trying to order four 24s from Nick...
According to the website, the mounting depth for the HS24 MKIII is 13.5".

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post #9 of 11 Old 11-17-2019, 12:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Right. That’s more than my allowed 12.5”, 13” outside cabinet edge max. Just not enough room once account for driver surround with the huge 24 either but would make it work if the cab could be smaller than 13”.


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post #10 of 11 Old 11-18-2019, 05:52 PM
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for what you are doing, obviously volume displaced is key. um18's would do pretty well for that, hst18's better, and something like the 24's may be the best, at least as far as volume displaced per driver.

you may wish to put the sides LFE modules on their own minidsp and give them some delay so they can be somewhat time aligned to your front wall of subs. then eq the whole set together.

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post #11 of 11 Old 11-18-2019, 06:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
for what you are doing, obviously volume displaced is key. um18's would do pretty well for that, hst18's better, and something like the 24's may be the best, at least as far as volume displaced per driver.



you may wish to put the sides LFE modules on their own minidsp and give them some delay so they can be somewhat time aligned to your front wall of subs. then eq the whole set together.


Ok. I’ll see what can come up with modeling both of those. If I have to I can always notch out the drywall to increase the depth. I would have to get pretty lucky for both walls lining up exactly at the same spot so may just do two on left wall front row and two right wall for third row. I’ll just have to locate the studs and take some REW measurements and find optimal locations if recess the cabs into the walls. All groups of subs will be treated as their own group before apply the Global EQ.

How should I split the XLR cables? Should I get one of the box splitters or use the loop digital out on each of the MiniDsps? I will be using at minimum 3 10x10HDs/4x8HDs just guessing off top of head. Are those still my best options for Subs, MBMs, and ability to use the REW goal EQ applied filters?

I’m finally putting together my dream system after waiting years on being able to get the Altitude and mains calibrated. I haven’t kept up with all the new stuff because was waiting to be able to put it all together. I actually thought I’d wait out the AVRs to provide 24 channels then wife okayed the Trinnov.


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