Integrating 2 VBSS with Minimarty - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 23 Old 11-25-2019, 08:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Integrating 2 VBSS with Minimarty

With the help of this forum, I decided to build 2 VBSS to go along with my existing Minimarty. I put two PA460s into two of the slot port boxes tuned for 20 Hz. The Minimarty uses the UM18, and it's all powered by an Inuke NX6000D (Minimarty on Channel A, 2 VBSS in parallel on Channel B). AVR is a Denon X3400H. I'm going to start setting it all up today, but I was hoping I could get a sanity check on my Inuke settings first. Settings are in the following album:

https://imgur.com/a/sRI7pBE

Knobs on the front of the Inuke will be maxed out (fully clockwise). I used the recommended settings for the VBSS from the master thread, only changing the limiter to 143 per the instructions. I know I'll probably need to bump the gain on my minimarty to compensate for the highpass. Is there anything else I'm missing before I fire these things up?
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post #2 of 23 Old 11-25-2019, 10:01 AM - Thread Starter
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That limiter setting seems high to me. Am I misunderstanding the VBSS readme? When discussing the 6000dsp, it says "You must add them in pairs for this to work, no using odd number of enclosures. Limiter setting should be 143Vp (168Vp for 31hz)." Is that the limiter setting for adding a single pair? Or for maxing it out at 16 pairs?

Edit: I think I found the answer in the VBSS master thread. I've set the limiter back to 71.5.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post
All the settings needed are in the text document on the first post if you didn't already load the preconfigured VBSS DSP profiles from the zip folder.

They are 71.5v for 15 or 20hz and 84v for 30hz tune.

This is for 1, 2 or 4 woofers per channel on the inuke or NX3000.

For the inuke or NX 6000 you can run either one or two woofers in parallel per channel in at those same limiter settings or you can run the woofers in series pairs with the limiter settings doubled. Configured like this you can run up to four series pairs per channel for a total of 16 woofers off one amplifier.

Last edited by abpatter; 11-25-2019 at 10:15 AM.
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post #3 of 23 Old 11-25-2019, 01:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Could use some help here

I'm clipping input to both channels when I set avr volume to -5db, even with my avr sub trim minimized to -12db. Is that normal? Is the best way to resolve it to use the knobs on the front of the inuke?
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post #4 of 23 Old 11-25-2019, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abpatter View Post
Could use some help here

I'm clipping input to both channels when I set avr volume to -5db, even with my avr sub trim minimized to -12db. Is that normal? Is the best way to resolve it to use the knobs on the front of the inuke?
That's what the attenuation knobs are for, yes. Turn them down as needed.

ETA: Be sure to turn the sub trim up to a normal level on the AVR.

Sub builds: Yet another Infinity 1260 build | Twins! | Modified V.B.S.S. build | UM12-22 builds | AV stand and sealed UM18s

Speaker builds: DIYSG HTM-10 build | DIYSG Volt-6 build | DIYSG Fusion-8 builds
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post #5 of 23 Old 11-25-2019, 01:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smcmillan2 View Post
That's what the attenuation knobs are for, yes. Turn them down as needed.

ETA: Be sure to turn the sub trim up to a normal level on the AVR.
What would you consider a "normal level" on the AVR?
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post #6 of 23 Old 11-25-2019, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abpatter View Post
What would you consider a "normal level" on the AVR?
Somewhere around -6 should be a good starting point. Or re-run Audyssey, adjusting the front knobs as needed, until the AVR sets the sub trim into that range for you.

Sub builds: Yet another Infinity 1260 build | Twins! | Modified V.B.S.S. build | UM12-22 builds | AV stand and sealed UM18s

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post #7 of 23 Old 11-25-2019, 03:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, I think I've got the input clipping issue solved. Here's my first REW graph. Looks like I've got some work to do. Any suggestions? I'm following mtg90's integration guide.
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post #8 of 23 Old 11-25-2019, 03:48 PM - Thread Starter
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A picture of my setup is attached. As you can see, it's a pretty small space without much room for rearranging the subs. I'm EQ'ing the 2 VBSS as a pair since they're the same distance from the listening position. The minimarty is about a foot closer, so I added 1ms of delay to it but the effects are negligible.
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post #9 of 23 Old 11-25-2019, 05:30 PM
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Try spinning the two VBSS cabs either 90 degrees (could try inside or outside) or 180 degrees so they face the front wall. I bet you can fix either one or both of those notches.
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post #10 of 23 Old 11-25-2019, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abpatter View Post
Ok, I think I've got the input clipping issue solved. Here's my first REW graph. Looks like I've got some work to do. Any suggestions? I'm following mtg90's integration guide.
Flip the polarity of one sub channel, and take a comparison sweep.

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post #11 of 23 Old 11-25-2019, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post
Try spinning the two VBSS cabs either 90 degrees (could try inside or outside) or 180 degrees so they face the front wall. I bet you can fix either one or both of those notches.
Rotating them certainly seemed to help. Rotating them inward (both facing the minimarty) produced the best results.
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post #12 of 23 Old 11-25-2019, 05:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Augerhandle View Post
Flip the polarity of one sub channel, and take a comparison sweep.
VBSS rotated inward, Channel A flipped.
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post #13 of 23 Old 11-26-2019, 04:35 PM
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Looking good mate! Just a tweak of EQ and you'll be spot on. Now, more importantly, how does it sound?
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post #14 of 23 Old 11-26-2019, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abpatter View Post
VBSS rotated inward, Channel A flipped.
I'd change channel A back if you haven't already. The reduction in output across the band when flipped shows it was in correct polarity to begin with.

Where are your speakers crossed at? Or are they even running in those measurements?
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post #15 of 23 Old 11-27-2019, 08:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudyoVidyo View Post
Looking good mate! Just a tweak of EQ and you'll be spot on. Now, more importantly, how does it sound?
Thanks! I haven't had time to mess with it the last couple of days. I'm about to start tinkering now - haven't really tested them out yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post
I'd change channel A back if you haven't already. The reduction in output across the band when flipped shows it was in correct polarity to begin with.

Where are your speakers crossed at? Or are they even running in those measurements?
I've swapped channel A back. Speakers (Elac Debut 2.0) will be crossed at 80 Hz I suppose, but they're not running in these measurements.

Does it matter that my Minimarty is at a much lower dB compared to the VBSS's for combined measurements?
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post #16 of 23 Old 11-27-2019, 09:46 PM - Thread Starter
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First attempt at EQ didn't go so well.

Before/After EQ on the Minimarty:


REW EQ Filters:


Before/After EQ on the VBSS's:


REW EQ Filters:


Combined Before/After EQ:


As you can see, it barely changed. I followed Chaluga's basic REW guide, but I must have screwed something up. Any ideas?
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post #17 of 23 Old 11-27-2019, 10:18 PM
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You add those filters into the Inuke and save them into a DSP preset?


Quote:
Originally Posted by abpatter View Post
Thanks! I haven't had time to mess with it the last couple of days. I'm about to start tinkering now - haven't really tested them out yet.

I've swapped channel A back. Speakers (Elac Debut 2.0) will be crossed at 80 Hz I suppose, but they're not running in these measurements.

Does it matter that my Minimarty is at a much lower dB compared to the VBSS's for combined measurements?
Disconnect subs, run a very loud sine wave or pink noise signal to the amp and adjust channel levels such that they both hit their individual limiter setting at the same time. This way the two different sub woofers will be loaded the same so that they both hit 100% at the same time rather then maxing out one sub before reaching the limit on the other.

Last edited by mtg90; 11-27-2019 at 10:27 PM.
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post #18 of 23 Old 11-27-2019, 10:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post
You add those filters into the Inuke and save them into a DSP preset?
I've got them loaded in, here's Channel A as an example:


I'm not sure what you mean about the DSP preset (the guide doesn't mention this).
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post #19 of 23 Old 11-27-2019, 10:38 PM
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Sorry forgot you were using a NX6000 not Inuke. Looks like they removed that feature from the NX line.

Sure doesn't look like any EQ got applied, not sure what's wrong.
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post #20 of 23 Old 11-27-2019, 10:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I appreciate the help regardless! I'll keep tinkering.
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post #21 of 23 Old 11-28-2019, 12:29 AM - Thread Starter
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EQ'ing all three together I was able to come up with this:


I did have to bump it 8dB at 63Hz though.
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post #22 of 23 Old 11-28-2019, 09:13 PM
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Looks pretty good now. Well done. Can you take some additional measurements about 1ft each side of the microphone positioning that you took those measurements from? Sometimes we can get stuck on the one mic location but either side of it is not that bad. Binaural ears remember.
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post #23 of 23 Old 11-29-2019, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Sure, I'll try to do that sometime tonight. I'm a little worried about boosting that one spot 8dB, as information here seems to vary on that topic. But the guide I was following said 5-8 dB boost is ok in the range of 50-90 hz, so hopefully it's ok.
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