Amp for Ultimax 18 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 29 Old 12-02-2019, 06:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Amp for Ultimax 18

Building 2 of the DIYSG 4 cu ft Sledge kits with the Ultimax 18.

I was locked in on buying a Behringer NX6000D but now am looking at the Crown XLi 2500 instead.

Any comparisons/thoughts on these two for my application? the 6000D is about $100-150 more best I can find.

Only comparisons I find are for the last model on the 6000D, the silver one.
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post #2 of 29 Old 12-02-2019, 11:39 AM
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In reading numerous threads on this forum the general consensus seems to be if you have outboard EQ capabilities (e.g. miniDSP) go with Crown. If not, the Behringers with DSP (and fan mod) are definitely worth a look.

I don't know much about the Crowns, but I don't recall seeing many using the XLi series, mostly the XLS.

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post #3 of 29 Old 12-02-2019, 12:28 PM
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XLi is cheaper but reports have been mostly positive as far as I've seen. The XLS are well established as good performers.

Spot on with the dsp/amp recs. I bought the crowns first as I do not like the behringer brand for reliability (anecdotal and personal experience). Plus I wanted a higher level of DSP capability (DIRAC/etc.).

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post #4 of 29 Old 12-02-2019, 01:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok so an XLS 2502 is about the same price as the 6000D.

Would that be the comparison? Are the stated outputs really correct?

XLS 2502 2 channel 775 w at 4 ohm

NX6000D 2 channel 3000 w at 4 ohm
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post #5 of 29 Old 12-02-2019, 02:42 PM
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The iNuke does not do 3000 watts at 4 ohm. It is closer to 1500 watts.

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #6 of 29 Old 12-02-2019, 03:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
The iNuke does not do 3000 watts at 4 ohm. It is closer to 1500 watts.
The 6000D is the iNuke i'm looking at.. it's to power 2 subs
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post #7 of 29 Old 12-02-2019, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by thisismyname123 View Post
The 6000D is the iNuke i'm looking at.. it's to power 2 subs

I have the 6000D. It does not do 3000 watts. It would fry everyone’s Ultimax 18 if it did.
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Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #8 of 29 Old 12-02-2019, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thisismyname123
NX6000D 2 channel 3000 w at 4 ohm
I'll just leave this here...

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...-amp-dyno.html

And, what the heck. This one for the 3k

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/clas...surements.html

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post #9 of 29 Old 12-02-2019, 03:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok so even if it hits 2,000 per channel or 2400 instead of 3000....the Crown is 775.

Is that a big enough difference to notice anything in everyday tv/movie/game watching?

Do the negatives of the inuke outweigh the supposed power difference? Fan noise, reliability....
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post #10 of 29 Old 12-02-2019, 03:47 PM
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Maybe you can run 2 crown xls 1002, if I remember correctly the 1002 is bridged at 4 ohm for 1100 watts, but would recommend mini dsp if you go crown, so add another extra cash for that, I have the 2502 and the crowns don't pop when you turn them off. I could be wrong but I thought I saw people say the dsp versions of behringer pop
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post #11 of 29 Old 12-02-2019, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thisismyname123 View Post
Ok so even if it hits 2,000 per channel or 2400 instead of 3000....the Crown is 775.

Is that a big enough difference to notice anything in everyday tv/movie/game watching?
Depends on how hard you want to drive them. Most here would answer your question with a resounding YES!

I can drive 2x UM18 sealed in ~5cuft sealed boxes on one channel of my NX3kdsp (8 ohms, so about 300w each) and a V.B.S.S. on the other at reference and not notice the subs falling behind. I don't often listen at reference however.

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Do the negatives of the inuke outweigh the supposed power difference? Fan noise, reliability....
I haven't had a Behringer amp die on me yet. First one is 7 years old (nu1kdsp, sold to a friend, still going strong), second is 4 or so (nu3kdsp) and the newest will be 1 year next month (nx3kd). I did fan mods on all of them. I don't know if the longevity differs on the 6ks, as they are basically a pair of bridged 3ks in the same box.
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post #12 of 29 Old 12-02-2019, 04:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Trigger on either? I thought i saw the inuke you basically had to leave the power on or manually turn it on.

Do you get any kind of pop when it turns on?

How about the DSP....does the XLS2502 have similar DSP capabilities
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post #13 of 29 Old 12-02-2019, 04:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valleyslim View Post
Maybe you can run 2 crown xls 1002, if I remember correctly the 1002 is bridged at 4 ohm for 1100 watts, but would recommend mini dsp if you go crown, so add another extra cash for that, I have the 2502 and the crowns don't pop when you turn them off. I could be wrong but I thought I saw people say the dsp versions of behringer pop
What are you powering the 2502 with? any issues?
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post #14 of 29 Old 12-02-2019, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
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... I could be wrong but I thought I saw people say the dsp versions of behringer pop
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...Do you get any kind of pop when it turns on?...
No pop when using the on off switch. Some report the 6000s pop when plugged/unplugged (discovered when using a smart power strip to turn them on and off). My nu3000DSP doesn't pop in either scenario.

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post #15 of 29 Old 12-02-2019, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thisismyname123 View Post
Trigger on either? I thought i saw the inuke you basically had to leave the power on or manually turn it on.

Do you get any kind of pop when it turns on?
The Behringers have no triggers. I have run both the 3ks on smart strips and experienced no (or so minimal I didn't notice it) thump.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thisismyname123
How about the DSP....does the XLS2502 have similar DSP capabilities
As I understand it the DSP in the Behringers is quite superior to that on the Crowns. Thus the need for the miniDSP (or similar) if using the Crowns.

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post #16 of 29 Old 12-02-2019, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valleyslim View Post
Maybe you can run 2 crown xls 1002, if I remember correctly the 1002 is bridged at 4 ohm for 1100 watts, but would recommend mini dsp if you go crown, so add another extra cash for that, I have the 2502 and the crowns don't pop when you turn them off. I could be wrong but I thought I saw people say the dsp versions of behringer pop
What are you powering the 2502 with? any issues?

I'm powering 2 DIY subs 15 inch each and 800 watts each rms so the crown was a good choice for me. Built the subs from parts from thelordofbass.com. I have them in a really bad room as I have a kitchen on the right, hallway on left, french glass doors in the rear and vaulted ceilings and they still sound good, no complaints from me, I still shake all the pictures on the wall. I'm afraid to know what over 1000 watts would do
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post #17 of 29 Old 12-02-2019, 08:25 PM
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Been running a pair of xls1002 brigged to a pair of um18's plenty of low boom for movies.

Sony 999ES
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post #18 of 29 Old 12-03-2019, 01:00 PM
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I ordered to UM18's yesterday from Parts Express, and plan to build 2 ported Cyclops 18's.


I'm also undecided on which amplifier to buy to power these ported boxes. I've been looking at these:


Behringer NX6000D

Crown XLS 2502 + minidsp 2x4 HD
Crown XLI 3500 + minidsp 2x4 HD


I like the XLS 2502 but am concerned that the 750w/channel would not be enough power. I prefer to save rack space and power both UM18's with 1 amp. I'm still undecided...


Mike
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post #19 of 29 Old 12-03-2019, 06:58 PM - Thread Starter
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The Behringers have no triggers. I have run both the 3ks on smart strips and experienced no (or so minimal I didn't notice it) thump.







As I understand it the DSP in the Behringers is quite superior to that on the Crowns. Thus the need for the miniDSP (or similar) if using the Crowns.
What smart strip are you using? I'm looking at the kasa one with 6 outlets

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post #20 of 29 Old 12-03-2019, 07:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Power question-

Right now I'm just using my family room for my setup. I think the entire room is on one breaker...prob 15a I'm assuming.

Currently have all this on same outlet
TV
Xbox
cable box
modem/router
marantz 6011 avr
outlaw 5000 amp

On same line but different 2 different outlets
Svs pb 2000 sub x2

Am I overdoing it on a 15a line if I add a nx6000D...would remove the dual pb2000s.

If I crank everything up that seems like a ton of draw. I don't know much about power load or amperage...just wondering



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post #21 of 29 Old 12-03-2019, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
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What smart strip are you using? I'm looking at the kasa one with 6 outlets
I've used this Belkin (apparently no longer available): https://www.amazon.com/Belkin-6-Outl...ct_top?ie=UTF8

And this APC: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Both of the above have a "Master" outlet - When whatever is plugged into Master is turned on, the "smart" outlets are also turned on, and vice-versa. I plugged my AVR into Master.

I use the Kasa single WiFi outlets to control other things, never tried them with the Behringers. They work well for what I'm doing, the software is so-so.

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post #22 of 29 Old 12-03-2019, 07:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smcmillan2 View Post
I've used this Belkin (apparently no longer available): https://www.amazon.com/Belkin-6-Outl...ct_top?ie=UTF8



And this APC: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1



Both of the above have a "Master" outlet - When whatever is plugged into Master is turned on, the "smart" outlets are also turned on, and vice-versa. I plugged my AVR into Master.



I use the Kasa single WiFi outlets to control other things, never tried them with the Behringers. They work well for what I'm doing, the software is so-so.
Ah...so not smart like I was thinking. I was looking at wifi. This makes way more sense. Thanks!

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post #23 of 29 Old 12-03-2019, 07:55 PM
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I like a bridged 1502 to each ultimax. Twice the power of a 2502 in 2 channel operation, won't melt the voice coil. Does cost a bit more (two 1502's vs. one 2502).

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post #24 of 29 Old 12-03-2019, 09:09 PM
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I like a bridged 1502 to each ultimax. Twice the power of a 2502 in 2 channel operation, won't melt the voice coil. Does cost a bit more (two 1502's vs. one 2502).

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Using a single 18 inch Ultimax driven by this amp:

http://www.audioreview.com/product/a...monoblock.html

Works great.
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post #25 of 29 Old 12-03-2019, 09:28 PM
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Remember a UM18 is closer to a 6 ohm load than a 4 ohm load. Check out impedance sweeps on databass, etc.
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post #26 of 29 Old 12-04-2019, 09:58 AM
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Im using the 6000d for dual um18s and it hits hard. Clips the umik-1 mic at over 120db with a pretty flat response. A ton of output even at 10hz and lower.

It also has the option to limit voltage if you want to tone down the wattage some.
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post #27 of 29 Old 12-04-2019, 10:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Im using the 6000d for dual um18s and it hits hard. Clips the umik-1 mic at over 120db with a pretty flat response. A ton of output even at 10hz and lower.



It also has the option to limit voltage if you want to tone down the wattage some.
What type of enclosures you have them in

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post #28 of 29 Old 12-04-2019, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
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What type of enclosures you have them in

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Full Marty boxes from GSG Audio.
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FYI I just went through this and tested a XLS 1502 (one to each sub), XLS 2502 (one to both subs) and an XLi3500 (one to both subs) and the XLi was the clear winner.. Also tried my old iNuke3000DSP and in both bridged and stereo mode the results were dismal..
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