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post #1 of 31 Old 12-02-2019, 02:40 PM - Thread Starter
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DIY subs suggestions

So I am looking at doing a project. Looking for in ceiling or in wall subs.

This would be my first go at the DIY thing.

What brands are people using on these projects? I have a fairly big room. 28x27’6”

So I am looking for good quality subs. You like to hear what eveyone else’s experience has been.
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post #2 of 31 Old 12-02-2019, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
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I probably should of put some more info.

room has 10ft ceilings. So it's like 7700 cubic feet.

I would like my budget forms subs to be about $3500ish. hopefully that's with amp.
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post #3 of 31 Old 12-02-2019, 03:54 PM
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the idea of inwalls, inceiling . . .

seems limiting wrt the challenge of that space

post more info and reason for inwall,etc.

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post #4 of 31 Old 12-02-2019, 07:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post
the idea of inwalls, inceiling . . .

seems limiting wrt the challenge of that space

post more info and reason for inwall,etc.
My wife! She doesn’t want any on free standing speakers. In her mind this is a living/entertaining area first theater second. I am more along the lines of theater first and living space second. This is going in kind of mother in law suite type set up that we will live in while we remodel the house. I am using the space after we move back into the house to get the theater I always wanted.

However.....To get the wife on board. All had to be in wall or in ceiling.
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post #5 of 31 Old 12-02-2019, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Mharper3 View Post
I am using the space after we move back into the house to get the theater I always wanted.
Then I would suggest waiting until that time, unless you're currently considering IB or the like.
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post #6 of 31 Old 12-02-2019, 08:40 PM
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You could do an impressive infinite baffle setup for $3500. I did four 18s and an NX6000D for about $1800. That amp should drive eight 18s.


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post #7 of 31 Old 12-02-2019, 08:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by smcmillan2 View Post
Then I would suggest waiting until that time, unless you're currently considering IB or the like.
I’ll have to try and post my drawing its not like that. Space will have a kitchen and a dining table. It’s more like a 1 bedroom apartment.
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post #8 of 31 Old 12-02-2019, 09:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lloyd401 View Post
You could do an impressive infinite baffle setup for $3500. I did four 18s and an NX6000D for about $1800. That amp should drive eight 18s.


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What subs did you go with? How do you like them? Is that first picture looking from inside the room? I could see doing something like those. Never heard a system like that where the sub isn’t installed in a sealed or ported box. I’ll have to read up on that.
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post #9 of 31 Old 12-02-2019, 09:24 PM
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" this is a living/entertaining area first "

an opportunity to be "creative and supporting" and getting those subs where they belong

will take some imagination, planning and first rate carpentry / dressing things up skills

end tables, coffee tables, drysink, credenzas , stand alone Bar

you can ask around this part of the woods, it's all been done

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is to get your Audio as you want it
and make it Visual so she can love it and live with it
and Smart- cause you pulled it off . .


the disguises /work/ excellent craftsmanship guys here have created first rate and commendable

back to the drawing board

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post #10 of 31 Old 12-02-2019, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Mharper3 View Post
What subs did you go with? How do you like them? Is that first picture looking from inside the room? I could see doing something like those. Never heard a system like that where the sub isn’t installed in a sealed or ported box. I’ll have to read up on that.
They're FI IB318v2. I love them, great extension and very tactile. Yes that's looking from inside the room. I use a hollowed out acoustic panel to hide them.


Tons more info on IB here: www.ibsubwoofers.com


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post #11 of 31 Old 12-02-2019, 11:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lloyd401 View Post
They're FI IB318v2. I love them, great extension and very tactile. Yes that's looking from inside the room. I use a hollowed out acoustic panel to hide them.


Tons more info on IB here: www.ibsubwoofers.com


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Ok this might be a dumb question but..... I was once pretty familiar with car audio... is there difference in car subs and what people are using in their DIY projects? Cuz I was pretty sure what JL audio was using in there fathom speakers was the same speaker I had in my truck. They are just charging 8x the price to sell it to someone for their house. This alone should probably be it’s own thread but that’s a question I probably should of started with. I don’t know **** for brands people are using.
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post #12 of 31 Old 12-03-2019, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lloyd401 View Post
They're FI IB318v2. I love them, great extension and very tactile. Yes that's looking from inside the room. I use a hollowed out acoustic panel to hide them.


Tons more info on IB here: www.ibsubwoofers.com


Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Thats amazing looking! How is the room response though? Are all chairs equal? I dont really understand how IB works in that regard. In room subwoofers you need to balance the locations of for best results over multiple listening positions. Does IB just take care of the whole room or are there still peaks and nulls?

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post #13 of 31 Old 12-03-2019, 01:39 PM
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Thats amazing looking! How is the room response though? Are all chairs equal? I dont really understand how IB works in that regard. In room subwoofers you need to balance the locations of for best results over multiple listening positions. Does IB just take care of the whole room or are there still peaks and nulls?
Thanks, it is still location dependent. I moved my old sub all over the room to find the best place for the IB that provided the most even response.

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post #14 of 31 Old 12-03-2019, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Mharper3 View Post
Ok this might be a dumb question but..... I was once pretty familiar with car audio... is there difference in car subs and what people are using in their DIY projects? Cuz I was pretty sure what JL audio was using in there fathom speakers was the same speaker I had in my truck. They are just charging 8x the price to sell it to someone for their house. This alone should probably be it’s own thread but that’s a question I probably should of started with. I don’t know **** for brands people are using.
Yes and no. Some people are using subs marketed to the car audio consumers. Others use subs marketed strictly to the home audio consumers. Other subs are just marketed as subs and you decide if they will work for you. I'm running the TC-3000 (https://web.archive.org/web/20070207...com/tc3000.htm)sub in my theater. If you look at the link, there are box suggestions for both home and car. Most subs will work in both environments but enclosure size will change.


Just because it looks the same doesn't mean it is the same driver. Motor geometry, voice coil, spider stiffness and cone weight all make a difference in how a sub responds in a particular enclosure but you may not be able to see the differences I listed. Also the Fathom has a built-in amp and a top quality enclosure. Plus there is marketing. You can't sell a product marketed as the best at a lower price. Anyone who has taken a marketing class in college learns that....That said, it's still a driver, box and amp just like we build for ourselves. Even a $50,000 speaker is built with MDF, PVC pipe for a port and paint. I have been to a local factory that makes them and we all build the same way. They just use custom designed drivers, crossovers with better caps and coils and a paint job from a company that repairs high-end sports cars.
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post #15 of 31 Old 12-03-2019, 03:48 PM
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You could do an impressive infinite baffle setup for $3500. I did four 18s and an NX6000D for about $1800. That amp should drive eight 18s.

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And cupholders too!

J/K. Very clean look, great idea.

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post #16 of 31 Old 12-03-2019, 03:57 PM
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And cupholders too!



J/K. Very clean look, great idea.
Only for a mixed drink!

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post #17 of 31 Old 12-04-2019, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Mharper3 View Post
My wife! She doesn’t want any on free standing speakers. In her mind this is a living/entertaining area first theater second. I am more along the lines of theater first and living space second. This is going in kind of mother in law suite type set up that we will live in while we remodel the house. I am using the space after we move back into the house to get the theater I always wanted.

However.....To get the wife on board. All had to be in wall or in ceiling.
If you don't have attic access for an IB than you might want to consider building in-ceiling sealed. Here is a thread for an in-floor project. You can use it for an in-ceiling sub too. The drivers go for $35/ea right now at PE. That would fit your budget no problem.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...af-factor.html

...
... someone said "Music is Art, Sound is Engineering" ...
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If you don't have attic access for an IB than you might want to consider building in-ceiling sealed. Here is a thread for an in-floor project. You can use it for an in-ceiling sub too. The drivers go for $35/ea right now at PE. That would fit your budget no problem.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...af-factor.html
Will, I read through some of your thread. When I get home from work I'll dive into it a little deeper. That project you did looks awesome though. I do have enough space to do both options. I like the sealed box idea though. I can just build in the sealed box and put them in between the joist in the ceiling.

Did you do anything in particularly to help with rattle or vibrations? That's my only concern. Which is why i'll have a couple of inches of spray foam spayed in walls and ceiling.
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post #19 of 31 Old 12-04-2019, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Mharper3 View Post
Will, I read through some of your thread. When I get home from work I'll dive into it a little deeper. That project you did looks awesome though. I do have enough space to do both options. I like the sealed box idea though. I can just build in the sealed box and put them in between the joist in the ceiling.

Did you do anything in particularly to help with rattle or vibrations? That's my only concern. Which is why i'll have a couple of inches of spray foam spayed in walls and ceiling.
An IB sub is just a really big sealed box.


In the IB pictures above, the drivers are mounted in an opposing orientation. That way they cancel out the vibrations.
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post #20 of 31 Old 12-04-2019, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Mharper3 View Post
Will, I read through some of your thread. When I get home from work I'll dive into it a little deeper. That project you did looks awesome though. I do have enough space to do both options. I like the sealed box idea though. I can just build in the sealed box and put them in between the joist in the ceiling.

Did you do anything in particularly to help with rattle or vibrations? That's my only concern. Which is why i'll have a couple of inches of spray foam spayed in walls and ceiling.
I did 2 things to prevent rattling/ vibration transfer:

1. The drivers are installed opposed
2. The boxes are hung on aircraft wire (like a cradle) to decouple the boxes from the structure. I wanted to avoid any vibration transfer due to the air mass coming in-and-out of the subwoofer port laterally and moving the sub boxes due to the air mass displacement

...
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post #21 of 31 Old 12-04-2019, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Mharper3 View Post
Will, I read through some of your thread. When I get home from work I'll dive into it a little deeper. That project you did looks awesome though. I do have enough space to do both options. I like the sealed box idea though. I can just build in the sealed box and put them in between the joist in the ceiling.

Did you do anything in particularly to help with rattle or vibrations? That's my only concern. Which is why i'll have a couple of inches of spray foam spayed in walls and ceiling.
There was a thread on here where a member did a couple of a think big horn loaded subs and mounted them in the attic ported into the room from the ceiling.

This is the thread I think. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...orn-build.html
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post #22 of 31 Old 12-04-2019, 01:03 PM
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3500$ gets you 4 of B&C's 21DS115 plus a clone amp. That should bring the party..! Don't forget the dsp for calibration or get a dsp amp right away. Hooking up a 2x4HD might be more convenient thou

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I used the $30 jbls for two in ceiling manifolds for IB. They don't play as low as the Fi's but offer excellent bass quality, headroom and tactile response.
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Which is why i'll have a couple of inches of spray foam spayed in walls and ceiling.
As I understand it, sprayfoam makes it worse. It basically glues everything together and helps transfer the waves. Hopefully I'm mistaken.

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Spray foam seals the air leaks which is a really good way to prevent airborn sound pollution. It does add mass to the wall structure as well making it more rigid (less flex) and inert to movement (less vibrations) from the air pressure in the room which is good.

Spray foam doesn't help with vibration transfer though. The vibrating box should be mechanically decoupled from the house structure to achieve vibration isolation.

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post #26 of 31 Old 12-04-2019, 06:51 PM - Thread Starter
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3500$ gets you 4 of B&C's 21DS115 plus a clone amp. That should bring the party..! Don't forget the dsp for calibration or get a dsp amp right away. Hooking up a 2x4HD might be more convenient thou
I was leaning more towards an Acoustic Elegance. I’ve also looked at Dayton. There is such a wide range of drivers out there that I still have a lot of reading and comparing to do.
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..There is such a wide range of drivers out there that I still have a lot of reading and comparing to do.
I would start by looking into reference type of drivers and start comparing their impedance/ phase graphs. Those graphs should be as smooth as possible in the frequency band where the sub would be used at. (zoom them in to see as many details as possible)

Another thing to consider - the more shorting rings the better.

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I would start by looking into reference type of drivers and start comparing their impedance/ phase graphs. Those graphs should be as smooth as possible in the frequency band where the sub would be used at. (zoom them in to see as many details as possible)

Another thing to consider - the more shorting rings the better.
I am so glad I am starting this process now when I have plenty of time to research and learn. I’m so way over my head. Hahaha I never even heard of a shorting ring till now.

You guys are great though. I’ve learn more about what’s possible in the last 3 days than I previously knew.

I am looking at the Daytons and I did not realize how many options they had. Everything to basic to high end it looks like.

How does someone size up speakers or a room? I have a pretty big space I’m working with. I usually take the approach, over power and the back things off. Hahaha. Not the most efficient way to approach it though.
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post #29 of 31 Old 12-04-2019, 09:57 PM
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Only for a mixed drink!

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post #30 of 31 Old 12-04-2019, 10:31 PM
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...How does someone size up speakers or a room? ...
A good ballpark ratio is 1W/ cu ft of room volume

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