Are horn subs "out of fashion"? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 72 Old 01-06-2020, 10:51 PM
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Btw, if I could fit two horns that were tuned to 10hz and reach 5hz in room I would build them. The DTS-10s were the deepest reaching horns in my room. I played the song deep penetration from the album woofer wrecker and it was probably the most bass I have encountered to date. It was fun!
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post #32 of 72 Old 01-06-2020, 11:05 PM
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^
rumor has it that you can build
a Submaximus V3 to take a 24" driver
and just maybe . . .
you'd only need 2

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be sure to tell him which driver to use . . .

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post #33 of 72 Old 01-07-2020, 02:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post
^

rumor has it that you can build

a Submaximus V3 to take a 24" driver

and just maybe . . .

you'd only need 2


@LTD02 , @hd0823



be sure to tell him which driver to use . . .
Yeah the 24 in the v3 is a really huge box but is alot smaller in the devastator omega it's one of the variants @Red Five came up with. I'm going to be building 2 of them for the basement next year.2 of them I think was 137db at 20hz and over 140 db at 30hz.

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post #34 of 72 Old 01-07-2020, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hd0823 View Post
Yeah the 24 in the v3 is a really huge box but is alot smaller in the devastator omega it's one of the variants @Red Five came up with. I'm going to be building 2 of them for the basement next year.2 of them I think was 137db at 20hz and over 140 db at 30hz.

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Omega is still smaller than the standard v3. 80x25.5x36 = 42.5 cuft. Omega 39.375 cuft feet. It is not all that much smaller, but it is smaller

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post #35 of 72 Old 01-07-2020, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
Omega is still smaller than the standard v3. 80x25.5x36 = 42.5 cuft. Omega 39.375 cuft feet. It is not all that much smaller, but it is smaller
Lol yeah close but not as bad. I do remember ltd02 saying it would need like 120 cubic ft in the v3 design

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post #36 of 72 Old 01-07-2020, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post
^
rumor has it that you can build
a Submaximus V3 to take a 24" driver
and just maybe . . .
you'd only need 2

@LTD02 , @hd0823

be sure to tell him which driver to use . . .
In that size box one can fit 4 drivers in a sealed box. Yes it cost much more but I would rather have full bandwidth with the 4 drivers sealed, just my experience.

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post #37 of 72 Old 01-07-2020, 10:48 AM
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Little late to the party, but I don't think horns are 'out of style'... Just depends on your priority of maximizing your drivers & amplifiers potential. For me, the build complications didn't merit a full horn. Now that horn flat packs are available to make them easy to build, I bet you'll see them become increasingly popular, especially compared to large ported boxes.


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In that size box one can fit 4 drivers in a sealed box. Yes it cost much more but I would rather have full bandwidth with the 4 drivers sealed, just my experience.
Cost is the only thing sealed has against it when you think about it. Ones priority of cost over space/complexity/fidelity is going to dramatically vary. I have two giant marty cabinets downstairs just cause I wanted some good bang for my buck, are behind a screen, and I was too lazy to find and build good horns to do any better.... I'd much rather have an army of appropriately powered sealed drivers as well
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post #38 of 72 Old 01-07-2020, 06:16 PM
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Is there a horn design solid to 10hz?
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post #39 of 72 Old 01-07-2020, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post
Is there a horn design solid to 10hz?
Hey Steve, let me first say thanks for your contributions. I have a 2000 cubic room and tried everything from small sealed to horn, ported, IB you name it. Whether pro drivers or Ht etc. The DTS-10s in my room reached 9 hz flat but would make some noises at 12 dB above reference with WOTW demos. I shrank my room to 1430 cubes by building a baffle wall for my 8x18 IB setup. After swapping all 12 SI 18HTs for two RE audio XXX 18s I knew there was something to the high end drivers but ultimately that room flooded. I have rebuilt the new room and these RE monsters love Large sealed enclosures. Paired with a high output RMS and burst amp and you never even cared what other systems I owned. After all these years sound quality in the bass region is about a smooth response and little distortion at levels needed. The deeper you go the heavy it feels.

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post #40 of 72 Old 01-07-2020, 10:37 PM
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I hear you. I’m not interested in building anything new, i was just curious if such a horn sub even existed so horn lovers can experience some infrasonics. I’m content with my 6 LLTs.
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post #41 of 72 Old 01-07-2020, 11:18 PM
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Not that I am aware of. The latest trend seems to be building 18hz and up monsters with Tranducers or the boss system. The boss system makes more sense as it would provide the pressure as well as the vibration from ULF if enough are utilized. I loved my LLT and thank you for all the info needed, I had a couple variations tuned to 12.3 hz and 10hz.

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post #42 of 72 Old 01-08-2020, 04:30 PM - Thread Starter
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There's some serious bass capacity at hand here from several individuals, be they an incarnation of direct radiators or horns. It's not that I'm complaining or in a lack of capacity in my own set-up, but ~10-15Hz extension and a radiation area in some cases multiples to my MW's is, well.. impressive. Maybe I'm a bit surprised, @MKtheater , that you went from 8x18" to a pair of über-dittos "only," but I take it they're doing perfectly fine

Whilst still my main focus is horn subs I'm glad to see any bass principle present here. 10Hz extension from a horn would seem nigh on impossible in most domestic environments, but I'm surprised to learn the DTS-10 tapped horns go that low in-room while not being more physically imposing (not that they're small by any means) - with the proviso that upper end extension is fairly limited, I guess, and that "irregularities" here may affect midbass presentation even with a steep low-pass filter between 50-60Hz (?).

In that regard, unless one is able to house ginormous FLH's, I take it direct radiators are the most obvious solution to achieve ULF territory, without being the size of a house and maintaining a well-behaved and -extended upper end response. The latter in itself, I presume, could be instrumental in midbass cleanliness?

For that reason certainly I've chosen not to go with a tapped tuned too low - that is, not much lower than ~25Hz - and that's also saying that if one wants a more representative picture or a fuller potential of the sheer bass quality from a tapped horn, perhaps the DTS-10 isn't the ideal choice. I'd even wager that insofar the pursuit of ULF is as prevalent as it is (from a tapped horn, not least), midbass quality seems not to be priority numero uno. Perhaps that's why you abandoned the DTS-10's to begin with, @MKtheater ?

Feels like I'm repeating myself, but I do find horn bass to sound different compared to DR's. Period, end of story. No one has to agree with me (though some does), but I'm not hearing any ghosts here. For sure, I'm won't deviate from horn bass either, and I'll gladly give up 10Hz in the bottom range to have what's provided from >20Hz. Maybe I'd only have to miss out on ~5Hz with a pair of 21" B&C-loaded SubMaximus V3's, but hell, I cant think of how to house them.

It would seem the DR ULF-capable subs brethren find they can have their cake and eat it too (i.e.: ULF and A+ overall bass SQ). I can't say the same lacking infrasonics, so there you have it...

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post #43 of 72 Old 01-08-2020, 04:37 PM
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Are horn subs "out of fashion"?

I’ll be attempting to integrate a pair of 10cf 11hz ported HST’s with my Mini Devastators this weekend, my attempt to have both superb midbass and low end extension.

I do have BOSS for low end also, and designed the ported boxes to have 16hz and 20hz tune options if integration doesn’t work out.

Chris

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post #44 of 72 Old 01-08-2020, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
In that size box one can fit 4 drivers in a sealed box. Yes it cost much more but I would rather have full bandwidth with the 4 drivers sealed, just my experience.
I also tried a few sealed and ported setups before deciding that 4 fi car audio ib318 v2 in a concrete box ib were the setup for me.
Now i am still saveing up to get 16 ib318 v2 in 4 concrete ib boxes.
My question is in addition to that is a 4 ib318 v2 setup for a boss system under my couch ok ? Or do i need more subs for my boss system?


Right now i have a no name boss with 3 12 inch subs that sounds good but i want more tr....Sigh.
On the other hand everything sounds good but i want more spl.

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post #45 of 72 Old 01-09-2020, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rezag View Post
There's some serious bass capacity at hand here from several individuals, be they an incarnation of direct radiators or horns. It's not that I'm complaining or in a lack of capacity in my own set-up, but ~10-15Hz extension and a radiation area in some cases multiples to my MW's is, well.. impressive. Maybe I'm a bit surprised, @MKtheater , that you went from 8x18" to a pair of über-dittos "only," but I take it they're doing perfectly fine

Whilst still my main focus is horn subs I'm glad to see any bass principle present here. 10Hz extension from a horn would seem nigh on impossible in most domestic environments, but I'm surprised to learn the DTS-10 tapped horns go that low in-room while not being more physically imposing (not that they're small by any means) - with the proviso that upper end extension is fairly limited, I guess, and that "irregularities" here may affect midbass presentation even with a steep low-pass filter between 50-60Hz (?).

In that regard, unless one is able to house ginormous FLH's, I take it direct radiators are the most obvious solution to achieve ULF territory, without being the size of a house and maintaining a well-behaved and -extended upper end response. The latter in itself, I presume, could be instrumental in midbass cleanliness?

For that reason certainly I've chosen not to go with a tapped tuned too low - that is, not much lower than ~25Hz - and that's also saying that if one wants a more representative picture or a fuller potential of the sheer bass quality from a tapped horn, perhaps the DTS-10 isn't the ideal choice. I'd even wager that insofar the pursuit of ULF is as prevalent as it is (from a tapped horn, not least), midbass quality seems not to be priority numero uno. Perhaps that's why you abandoned the DTS-10's to begin with, @MKtheater ?

Feels like I'm repeating myself, but I do find horn bass to sound different compared to DR's. Period, end of story. No one has to agree with me (though some does), but I'm not hearing any ghosts here. For sure, I'm won't deviate from horn bass either, and I'll gladly give up 10Hz in the bottom range to have what's provided from >20Hz. Maybe I'd only have to miss out on ~5Hz with a pair of 21" B&C-loaded SubMaximus V3's, but hell, I cant think of how to house them.

It would seem the DR ULF-capable subs brethren find they can have their cake and eat it too (i.e.: ULF and A+ overall bass SQ). I can't say the same lacking infrasonics, so there you have it...
IMHO the DTS-10 were awesome, they had dual 12s and could really move some air. That 54hz peak anomaly was handled with EQ and really didn't notice it during reference level watching. I sold the DTS-10s because I am a habitual experimenter, I love trying new things. Once I tried so many designs I realized once I achieved my spl with low distortion the difference became extension. My room has 20 dB of gain at 10hz so ported or horns would have a rising peak at that frequency and sealed subs were flat unless their -3 dB point has less rolloff like the RE drivers. I know the RE drivers only did ok at DB but put them in a big box and a high output burst amp and my two drivers feel more ULF than my 8x18 HT drivers as they do exhibit that peak at 5-10hz in room where other sealed did not. the 8-12 SIs obviously could play louder at max excursion but I never played my theater over 130 dB. I keep it at 125-126 dB because being a sealed room the pressure become too much. I also had 8 Fi IB3-18s which had the most max spl if needed but again I kept everything at the same listening volume, which is reference levels on the master volume and LFE channel 12 dB hot. With army of sealed the distortion is lower than the two RE but not audible either way. I want to add two more RE just to get the THD below 2% everyhwere but right now it is around 3-4% and less than 2% at 10hz.
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post #46 of 72 Old 01-09-2020, 09:06 AM
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Just to throw this out there I have MK’s old DTS-10’s and have added two more so have 4 total in my room. 2 in front two in back. I high pass the. At 12Hz and am solid in output to that and haven’t been able to cause any strain on them that I’ve noticed. Powered with a XBS 20k.

I am picking up two 21” eminence drivers today as I would like more of that punchy, chest hitting mid bass. I also have the drivers for a BOSS but still haven’t got around to building one as I suck at building things and don’t think I can even cut a circle hole ha.

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post #47 of 72 Old 01-09-2020, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcallister View Post
Just to throw this out there I have MK’s old DTS-10’s and have added two more so have 4 total in my room. 2 in front two in back. I high pass the. At 12Hz and am solid in output to that and haven’t been able to cause any strain on them that I’ve noticed. Powered with a XBS 20k.

I am picking up two 21” eminence drivers today as I would like more of that punchy, chest hitting mid bass. I also have the drivers for a BOSS but still haven’t got around to building one as I suck at building things and don’t think I can even cut a circle hole ha.
Hey, been a while, those eminence drivers look really good. What is the plan?

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post #48 of 72 Old 01-09-2020, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by a77cj7 View Post
I’ll be attempting to integrate a pair of 10cf 11hz ported HST’s...
What are the port dimensions?



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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
My room has 20 dB of gain at 10hz so ported or horns would have a rising peak at that frequency and sealed subs were flat unless their -3 dB point has less rolloff like the RE drivers.

You have EQ to cut excessive ULF, so why wouldn't you just accept the gift of greater headroom?

Noah
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post #49 of 72 Old 01-09-2020, 10:19 AM
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What are the port dimensions?






You have EQ to cut excessive ULF, so why wouldn't you just accept the gift of greater headroom?
I do, I don't use EQ at all these days unless the inherent build needed it, since I built everything myself I have used none in my current setup. This graph is running the LFE hot with an 80hz crossover. Does anybody know why these grapgs are saving in 10 dB increments when they were 5 in REW?


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post #50 of 72 Old 01-09-2020, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
What are the port dimensions?

5” tall, 5.67” wide. 55” long IIRC.

Three ports, all open = 20hz, 9cf.
Plugging ports and adding additional volume results in 15.6hz and 11hz.

Velocity is high on 2500w at 11hz, hoping the minimal content at that frequency makes it a non-issue.

Chris
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post #51 of 72 Old 01-09-2020, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by a77cj7 View Post
Velocity is high on 2500w at 11hz, hoping the minimal content at that frequency makes it a non-issue.
By high velocity, you must be talking about something like 40-50 m/s?

I've modeled a ton of ported subs with all of the common drivers, and without even looking at this particular model I know from experience that box (and thus port) is very undersized for that low of a tune with that driver. The much-too-small port will end up being a major bottleneck on that design, and will hold that driver back in a big way, to the point that IMO you'd be better off with sealed if that's the biggest box you can build for that driver and you're trying to get down to 10Hz with them.

Add some pretty narrow EQ to your model to bring the port velocity down to a more reasonable level like 20 m/s and then look at the resulting response compared to sealed. I think you'll see at that point the sealed looks better overall with no port compression or chuffing issues to worry about.

I'm one of the biggest ported evangelists on the forum, but I still wouldn't recommend this particular design at all with that driver and your goals. At least you'll have the other tune options to fall back to.

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post #52 of 72 Old 01-09-2020, 01:18 PM
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Are horn subs "out of fashion"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
By high velocity, you must be talking about something like 40-50 m/s?



I've modeled a ton of ported subs with all of the common drivers, and without even looking at this particular model I know from experience that box (and thus port) is very undersized for that low of a tune with that driver. The much-too-small port will end up being a major bottleneck on that design, and will hold that driver back in a big way, to the point that IMO you'd be better off with sealed if that's the biggest box you can build for that driver and you're trying to get down to 10Hz with them.



Add some pretty narrow EQ to your model to bring the port velocity down to a more reasonable level like 20 m/s and then look at the resulting response compared to sealed. I think you'll see at that point the sealed looks better overall with no port compression or chuffing issues to worry about.



I'm one of the biggest ported evangelists on the forum, but I still wouldn't recommend this particular design at all with that driver and your goals. At least you'll have the other tune options to fall back to.

Port velocity was around 35m/s

Ported looked way better than sealed at the dimensions. Plus, sealed has major integration issues with other subs.

Check out the jtr cap4000ulf, even crazier displacement with similar volume and port area. Its actually what gave me the idea to try it.

Plus I can go to one of the higher tunes and integrate seamlessly.

Chris
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post #53 of 72 Old 01-09-2020, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a77cj7 View Post
Port velocity was around 35m/s

Ported looked way better than sealed at the dimensions. Plus, sealed has major integration issues with other subs.

Check out the jtr cap4000ulf, even crazier displacement with similar volume and port area. Its actually what gave me the idea to try it.

Plus I can go to one of the higher tunes and integrate seamlessly.

Chris
I just modeled it, I'm getting 41 m/s at only 1500W @ 10.5Hz.

That's why I suggested you EQ the velocity down and then compare the responses. Ported will no longer look way better than sealed.

I've modeled 4000ULF replicas many times as well. It's more like 17cf vs your 10cf and the port area is more like 37 sq.in. vs your 28 sq.in. and it is also choked by it's ports.

Here's a post I made in another thread about replicating the 4000ULF:

Quote:
Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
First of all, there's no doubt the 4000ULF is an incredible commercial sub, and it's a great value as far as trying to replicate it with comparable drivers and amp. That said, if I'm building DIY subs, that is not a design I'm trying to replicate, and here's why...

Let's take the 4000ULF box, and instead of putting those two beastly drivers in it, we put a single UM18. For this model, I'm using 17cf net, 10Hz tune, and two 2"x9.25" ports, which is what I believe the 4000ULF ports are sized at (they may be a bit smaller, but I want to give the 4000ULF the benefit of the doubt). Give the UM18 1200W in this box, and what do we get? 110dB @ 10Hz, but much more importantly, 32 m/s port velocity.

10Hz 110dB 32 m/s
11Hz 110dB 24 m/s
12Hz 110dB 22 m/s
13Hz 111dB 15 m/s

Those ports are already maxed out with only a single UM18 pushing them. You can put beefier drivers in that box and/or a second driver in that box, but you're just trying to push more air through ports that can't really handle any more.

In fact, if someone really wanted to build something in a similar form factor to the 4000ULF and pack a ton of output into that amount of space, a couple of HST18s and the SP1-4000-HT ($2,819 for drivers and amp) in 10cf sealed will output 107dB @ 10Hz. The ported 4000ULF box needs a port velocity of 22 m/s to equal that 107dB @ 10Hz. On top of that, the sealed sub of course wins in the single-digits.

Otherwise, it's tough to beat two of the single-UM18 boxes and an NX6000D ($1,120 for drivers and amp). Sure, it takes up twice as much space as a single 4000ULF, but you really need two or more subs for an even room response anyway, and they will outperform the 4000ULF down low IMO because of the port velo issues. The cost difference is so large, you could build 4 of them for less money than the sealed dual HST18 build.

Coincidentally, this same 17cf size is what I've proposed as a fantastic Sonotube sub design in other threads, as it can be achieved by cutting a 12' Sonotube in half and building subs with the 6' halves. It's a perfect size for a single UM18, as we're seeing here, with any tune between 10-15Hz working really well, with bigger ports and reasonable port velocities. I've unofficially dubbed it the SonnySub, a la the MartySub but bigger and badder, and in a Sonotube form factor with a 24" diameter footprint. But really, Sonotube or box, 17cf ported just works extremely well with a single UM18 and I don't see a whole lot of benefit to putting beefier drivers in that size enclosure and alignment.

Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Fusion-8 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4
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post #54 of 72 Old 01-09-2020, 01:34 PM
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Are horn subs "out of fashion"?

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Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
I just modeled it, I'm getting 41 m/s at only 1500W @ 10.5Hz.



That's why I suggested you EQ the velocity down and then compare the responses. Ported will no longer look way better than sealed.



I've modeled 4000ULF replicas many times as well. It's more like 17cf vs your 10cf and the port area is more like 37 sq.in. vs your 28 sq.in. and it is also choked by it's ports.



Here's a post I made in another thread about replicating the 4000ULF:


Did you add a protective HPF to control cone excursion?

I’ll be home shortly and will post the hornresp model.

Again, sealed has major integration issues, requiring a 8th order hpf at 10hz, which kills response. Plus box size is limited to 6cf by cone excursion.

The ported design is absolutely guaranteed to integrate with one of the higher tune options, and has decent port velocity.

Edit: The boxes are already completed also. I guess I could whip up a third set of port plugs and make them sealed, but volume will be excessive.



Chris
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post #55 of 72 Old 01-09-2020, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by a77cj7 View Post
Did you add a protective HPF to control cone excursion?

I’ll be home shortly and will post the hornresp model.

Again, sealed has major integration issues, requiring a 8th order hpf at 10hz, which kills response. Plus box size is limited to 6cf by cone excursion.

The ported design is absolutely guaranteed to integrate with one of the higher tune options, and has decent port velocity.

Edit: The boxes are already completed also. I guess I could whip up a third set of port plugs and make them sealed, but volume will be excessive.



Chris

From those specs 900 watts puts you at about 35m/s with a 10Hz 4th order HPF. Box tune according to HR should come in around 11.7Hz. 34m/s is 10% the speed of sound and the Eminence recommendation for peak velocity, though I know of a guy or two that for PA sub applications pushes 40m/s. The box will work, but you will not have crazy output levels, but then again with the other stuff in the room you do not need crazy levels. That first port resonance is a bit close to the pass band if the port length is 55", I would be more worried about that crossing over at 80Hz.



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You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
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post #56 of 72 Old 01-09-2020, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a77cj7 View Post
Did you add a protective HPF to control cone excursion?

I’ll be home shortly and will post the hornresp model.

Again, sealed has major integration issues, requiring a 8th order hpf at 10hz, which kills response. Plus box size is limited to 6cf by cone excursion.

The ported design is absolutely guaranteed to integrate with one of the higher tune options, and has decent port velocity.

Edit: The boxes are already completed also. I guess I could whip up a third set of port plugs and make them sealed, but volume will be excessive.

Chris
Yes, I had a proper HPF to keep excursion right at xmax, and the ~1500W is what it was down to at 10.5Hz due to the HPF.

In any case, I was just trying to help, but didn't realize they were already built so I'm sure you'll try the different options with those boxes and settle on something that works for you.

Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Fusion-8 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4
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post #57 of 72 Old 01-09-2020, 03:02 PM
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Are horn subs "out of fashion"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
Yes, I had a proper HPF to keep excursion right at xmax, and the ~1500W is what it was down to at 10.5Hz due to the HPF.



In any case, I was just trying to help, but didn't realize they were already built so I'm sure you'll try the different options with those boxes and settle on something that works for you.

You are correcting on port velocity, its showing in the mid 40’s at full power. I was apparently thinking of a different model.
@Red Five . I had actually adjusted the length of the port to 50” due to the resonance.

Final design ended up at 10.7 cube assuming 5” thick port plugs, 11.3hz.

The other two tunes end up 16hz, under 30m/s, and 19.8hz, under 20m/s.

I am honestly just hoping the 11hz works due to the lack of full power content that low. Of course, I’ll probably start playing with BEQ and kill that, but o well.
I also have no idea if I can integrate it with the mini dev’s and submax.
The boxes are total compromises in too many ways, but give me rock solid options that I know will work if all else fails.

Chris
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post #58 of 72 Old 01-10-2020, 02:08 PM
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I do, I don't use EQ at all these days unless the inherent build needed it...


Sure looks like it does, >10 dB down at 30 Hz.



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Ported looked way better than sealed at the dimensions.

Depends what you mean by looked, but I doubt your s/w shows the effects of port compression.

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post #59 of 72 Old 01-10-2020, 06:51 PM
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Are horn subs "out of fashion"?

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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Depends what you mean by looked, but I doubt your s/w shows the effects of port compression.


You guys are making me question these things before I even hear them, so... model time.

Sealed, 8th order 10hz HPF for integration.

Optimized for xmax at 2500w, 7.8cf:


Current boxes, all ports plugged. 2000w due to cone excursion:


20hz tune, 18hz 2nd order HPF, under 20m/s port velocity:


16hz tune, 15hz 3rd order HPF, 30m/s port velocity:


11hz tune, 11hz 4th order HPF, 1000w, 30m/s port velocity:


All but the smaller sealed are options with the current boxes.
@Red Five , @aron7awol

Chris

Last edited by a77cj7; 01-10-2020 at 06:55 PM.
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post #60 of 72 Old 01-10-2020, 07:14 PM
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^^^ What if you use a LPF on the sealed (and maybe also a different HPF on the MiniDevs if it helps) for integration and let the sealed subs handle <20Hz-30Hz or whatever integrates best while leaving their major strength, the low-end intact? While I haven't modeled that integration I'm confident there a combination that would work well. I think that's your path to adding something really compelling in combination with the MiniDevs.

Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Fusion-8 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4
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