1299 Design, Build, and Integration - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 18 Old 01-13-2020, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
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1299 Design, Build, and Integration

Hey guy I am planning on building a pair of 1299 ported towers and using a 1099 as a center. I want to use this thread to help guid others and myself on the build of these speakers as I try to do with my sub builds. I have never built a pair of speakers before only subwoofers so this is uncharted territory for me. I will be asking the community for assistance with getting the port dimensions and over all design. I plan to attempt things I’ve never tried before such as veneering and building grills etc. any and all assistance is welcome! I know several of you own these already and @eng-399 is pretty much a master at the designing of speakers so hopefully I can keep everything documented well enough that the help supplied to me can also help others gain the confidence to build these magnificent speakers!

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post #2 of 18 Old 01-13-2020, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Reserved for build plans

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post #3 of 18 Old 01-13-2020, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
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post #4 of 18 Old 01-13-2020, 02:37 PM
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Looking forward to your build. I assume you will go with a horizontal 1099 center, correct. Not much room between your entertainment center and the bottom of the tv.
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post #5 of 18 Old 01-13-2020, 05:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by johnson636 View Post
Looking forward to your build. I assume you will go with a horizontal 1099 center, correct. Not much room between your entertainment center and the bottom of the tv.

Yeah I actually rebuilt my TV console to accommodate the 1099 perfectly and because I bought a new 82” tv also and wanted to drop it down a tad. Here is the new version with the RC64iii in it and the marantz before swapping for the XMC-2 and selling the klipsch. Pardon the progress on the picture as I didn’t have the doors etc or everything back in the room when I took it. I know it’s frowned upon not having the waveguides at the same ear level but with a slight angle I’m sure it will be fine.


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post #6 of 18 Old 01-15-2020, 03:24 AM - Thread Starter
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The wait continues while Erich is verifying stock etc. during this time I am hoping to be able to nail down the cut list and tune of the speakers. I’m not very proficient with winisd as I have only used them for subwoofers. Anyone mind giving me advise on what tune and port length etc people prefer for the 1299s?

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post #7 of 18 Old 01-15-2020, 09:13 AM
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I would say a tune of 30hz or 35hz would be great for these speakers. The port length would depend on the enclosure dimensions you decide to go with.

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post #8 of 18 Old 01-15-2020, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by johnson636 View Post
I would say a tune of 30hz or 35hz would be great for these speakers. The port length would depend on the enclosure dimensions you decide to go with.

The RF7iiis I’m coming from are +-3 at 32 so 30 would be ideal IMO. Two 12s should be ok there I imagine some 2 10s were close. My only worry is the phase switch of the devestators. @Red Five what frequency does the BMD switch phasing? I should prob keep it above that to ensure no Cancellations. I say that but then realize when running full scale I likely won’t be running BMDs so prob not a huge issue but one to think about none the less

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post #9 of 18 Old 01-15-2020, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superkyle View Post
The RF7iiis I’m coming from are +-3 at 32 so 30 would be ideal IMO. Two 12s should be ok there I imagine some 2 10s were close. My only worry is the phase switch of the devestators. @Red Five what frequency does the BMD switch phasing? I should prob keep it above that to ensure no Cancellations. I say that but then realize when running full scale I likely won’t be running BMDs so prob not a huge issue but one to think about none the less

The phase changes are effected primarily by the HPF and LPF. If one transducer type/alignment is running in a given frequency range your probability of phasing issues will be lower. Running something like 1299s in the same range as the Devastators could become more problematic. If you do run into phasing issues I would try different filter slops/frequencies until a positive summation is achieved.

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post #10 of 18 Old 01-15-2020, 11:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
The phase changes are effected primarily by the HPF and LPF. If one transducer type/alignment is running in a given frequency range your probability of phasing issues will be lower. Running something like 1299s in the same range as the Devastators could become more problematic. If you do run into phasing issues I would try different filter slops/frequencies until a positive summation is achieved.


Thank you for the information. Just recalling from when I was playing around with my rythmik there was a point at which positive summation was possible above a certain frequency while not possible below but reversing caused the opposite result. I can’t remember exactly what that frequency was but I’m thinking it was right at 30hz maybe a tad lower.

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post #11 of 18 Old 01-15-2020, 11:37 AM
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1299 Design, Build, and Integration

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Originally Posted by superkyle View Post
Thank you for the information. Just recalling from when I was playing around with my rythmik there was a point at which positive summation was possible above a certain frequency while not possible below but reversing caused the opposite result. I can’t remember exactly what that frequency was but I’m thinking it was right at 30hz maybe a tad lower.


That was without the ability to control the HPF though, I assume. I’ve been playing with my multitune ported, and the 16hz tune was pretty easy to integrate by messing with HPF and LPF slopes, as @Red Five stated. I haven’t gotten to the 11hz yet, hopefully tonight.

With your setup, I’d shoot for a 30hz tune, and start with HPF at 40hz. That should avoid the port phase shift, and leave just the crossovers to deal with.

Chris
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post #12 of 18 Old 01-15-2020, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
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That was without the ability to control the HPF though, I assume. I’ve been playing with my multitune ported, and the 16hz tune was pretty easy to integrate by messing with HPF and LPF slopes, as @Red Five stated. I haven’t gotten to the 11hz yet, hopefully tonight.

With your setup, I’d shoot for a 30hz tune, and start with HPF at 40hz. That should avoid the port phase shift, and leave just the crossovers to deal with.

Chris


No he is right for sure I guess my question is if you go for a 30hz tune with aggressive slopes is that not basically the same as a 35hz tune with a less steep decline?

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post #13 of 18 Old 01-15-2020, 12:19 PM
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1299 Design, Build, and Integration

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No he is right for sure I guess my question is if you go for a 30hz tune with aggressive slopes is that not basically the same as a 35hz tune with a less steep decline?


The port phase shift and the crossover phase shift are separate, unrelated effects. The summation if the two (or more) phase shifts is the determining factor in cancellations.
Steeper slopes can help to mitigate the effects of cancellation just because the content drops off so quickly that you don’t get noticeable loss below crossover frequency.
I prefer to play with slopes, frequencies, and time alignment to completely avoid destructive cancellation.
Staying 10hz or so off port tune helps to take the port shift out of the equation, so you don’t get the rapid slope change of phase shift.

Chris
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post #14 of 18 Old 01-15-2020, 01:04 PM - Thread Starter
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The port phase shift and the crossover phase shift are separate, unrelated effects. The summation if the two (or more) phase shifts is the determining factor in cancellations.
Steeper slopes can help to mitigate the effects of cancellation just because the content drops off so quickly that you don’t get noticeable loss below crossover frequency.
I prefer to play with slopes, frequencies, and time alignment to completely avoid destructive cancellation.
Staying 10hz or so off port tune helps to take the port shift out of the equation, so you don’t get the rapid slope change of phase shift.

Chris


I see. Thanks for the detailed explanation. I’ll shoot for a 30hz tune with the 1299s then. Maybe if @eng-399 has some free time he can give me a hand with the design as his modeling skills are second to none. With tuning decided now it’s just size and port length etc

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post #15 of 18 Old 01-15-2020, 01:06 PM
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I see. Thanks for the detailed explanation. I’ll shoot for a 30hz tune with the 1299s then. Maybe if @eng-399 has some free time he can give me a hand with the design as his modeling skills are second to none. With tuning decided now it’s just size and port length etc


No problem happy to help. Let take a look at winisd and see what I can come up with.
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post #16 of 18 Old 01-15-2020, 01:24 PM - Thread Starter
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No problem happy to help. Let take a look at winisd and see what I can come up with.


You are incredible thanks a ton!

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post #17 of 18 Old 01-16-2020, 03:20 PM
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@eng-399 is great, he helped with bouncing a few ideas around and with the design of my 1299 towers. I went with a ~35Hz tune on mine. Here are the dimensions and a link to my thread for the whole discussion and build.


1299 Ported Towers
Baffle- 45" x 14.75" (Included with kit, modified and extended. To be flush trimmed with router)
Top- 14.75" x 17"
Sides- 44.25" x 16.25"
Bottom- 13.25" x 15.5"
Back- 44.25" x 13.25"
Port- 13.25" x 8.25"
Braces- 15.5" x 13.25"
**Port Dimensions**- 2" x 13.25" x 9" Gives the box a tune of roughly 34-35 Hz



Link to Thread
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